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Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Re: Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

07 Jan 2019 12:27

Apparently nibs hasnt been paid in a timely matter either......hmmmmmmmmm. its also the first time the press writes about not everything going well between nibs and team management.
This doesnt come as a surprise to me after the remarks of that ds during the vuelta. I mean who on earth would think its a good idea to run to the press saying that nibs should shut the **** up when he fears for the rest of his career because they are in contract negotiations with potential sponsors. Doesnt that ds have any respect for its star rider who single handed put the team on the map in its first year? Doesnt he understand how nibs felt in the vuelta and the fear he must have felt that his back wouldnt make a full recovery?


I d like to see him go to trek where they still believe in him no matter his age.
Lo squalo di messina
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Re: Re:

07 Jan 2019 13:59

Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:If he is facing Simon Yates, Bernal and Dumoulin, he needs to take some risks if he want to win it.

Those guys are likely to outpace him on a MTF. He could have an ally in more aggressive riders like Landa and Bardet.


If Nibbles is in top shape, he can earn all the time he needs on Dumoulin in stages 15 and 16. As strong as Dumoulin may be, Lo Squalo at his best is a better climber than him. IMO, neither Bernal, nor Yates can TT as well as Vincenzo. He has a fair chance of winning this thing.


Nibali 2/3 years ago was a better climber than Dumoulin. However, Dumoulin clearly improved the last 2 years. I doubt Nibali has. I think Dumoulin is better than Nibali on all fronts.
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07 Jan 2019 15:15

Trek is fine with me. I just want him to be happy, healthy and on form for the remainder of his career. Porte can lead the 1 week races where he does well and Vincenzo the classics and GTs.
Alberto Contador=Legend!
Nibali joins Gimondi, Merckx and Hinault as only the 4th man to win all 3 GTS and 2 different Monuments (2018). A throwback rider in this age of specialization. Bravo!
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Re: Re:

07 Jan 2019 16:12

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:If he is facing Simon Yates, Bernal and Dumoulin, he needs to take some risks if he want to win it.

Those guys are likely to outpace him on a MTF. He could have an ally in more aggressive riders like Landa and Bardet.


If Nibbles is in top shape, he can earn all the time he needs on Dumoulin in stages 15 and 16. As strong as Dumoulin may be, Lo Squalo at his best is a better climber than him. IMO, neither Bernal, nor Yates can TT as well as Vincenzo. He has a fair chance of winning this thing.


Nibali 2/3 years ago was a better climber than Dumoulin. However, Dumoulin clearly improved the last 2 years. I doubt Nibali has. I think Dumoulin is better than Nibali on all fronts.

The Tour this year still annoys me cause now we barely know how Nibali was doing. Both Nibali and Quintana were very underwhelming in 2017, but then that's Tom's poopy pants compensated for that.

Nibali was better in that Vuelta but the route suited him so much worse, and the only real top form he hit in the last 2 years was the fall classics of 2017.

Dumoulin was ridiculously consistent this year, but the crazy days like Oropa were definitely lacking. In Dumoulin's case I wonder if he can be at Tour weight while having the same power output, in which case there's not much to be done to be honest.
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Re: Re:

07 Jan 2019 17:26

Red Rick wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:If he is facing Simon Yates, Bernal and Dumoulin, he needs to take some risks if he want to win it.

Those guys are likely to outpace him on a MTF. He could have an ally in more aggressive riders like Landa and Bardet.


If Nibbles is in top shape, he can earn all the time he needs on Dumoulin in stages 15 and 16. As strong as Dumoulin may be, Lo Squalo at his best is a better climber than him. IMO, neither Bernal, nor Yates can TT as well as Vincenzo. He has a fair chance of winning this thing.


Nibali 2/3 years ago was a better climber than Dumoulin. However, Dumoulin clearly improved the last 2 years. I doubt Nibali has. I think Dumoulin is better than Nibali on all fronts.

The Tour this year still annoys me cause now we barely know how Nibali was doing. Both Nibali and Quintana were very underwhelming in 2017, but then that's Tom's poopy pants compensated for that.

Nibali was better in that Vuelta but the route suited him so much worse, and the only real top form he hit in the last 2 years was the fall classics of 2017.

Dumoulin was ridiculously consistent this year, but the crazy days like Oropa were definitely lacking. In Dumoulin's case I wonder if he can be at Tour weight while having the same power output, in which case there's not much to be done to be honest.


Yes, very unfortunate we didn't see him in Le Tour. Whatever his top form is these years I think he is still capable to have the edge over Dumoulin in multi mountain hard stages which there are a few in this Giro. That in itself is not enough but race conditions are different from comparing ones ability against the other except if we're talking about TTs where Tom most likely will have over 2 minutes on Nibali.

In the mountains though there are quite a few capable riders so again, the dynamics of the race, the terrain, parcours and weather will decide. I am confident Nibali has a real chance to win the Giro but most likely we'll have no idea about his form until later in the race.
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Re: Re:

07 Jan 2019 19:31

Rollthedice wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:If he is facing Simon Yates, Bernal and Dumoulin, he needs to take some risks if he want to win it.

Those guys are likely to outpace him on a MTF. He could have an ally in more aggressive riders like Landa and Bardet.


If Nibbles is in top shape, he can earn all the time he needs on Dumoulin in stages 15 and 16. As strong as Dumoulin may be, Lo Squalo at his best is a better climber than him. IMO, neither Bernal, nor Yates can TT as well as Vincenzo. He has a fair chance of winning this thing.


Nibali 2/3 years ago was a better climber than Dumoulin. However, Dumoulin clearly improved the last 2 years. I doubt Nibali has. I think Dumoulin is better than Nibali on all fronts.

The Tour this year still annoys me cause now we barely know how Nibali was doing. Both Nibali and Quintana were very underwhelming in 2017, but then that's Tom's poopy pants compensated for that.

Nibali was better in that Vuelta but the route suited him so much worse, and the only real top form he hit in the last 2 years was the fall classics of 2017.

Dumoulin was ridiculously consistent this year, but the crazy days like Oropa were definitely lacking. In Dumoulin's case I wonder if he can be at Tour weight while having the same power output, in which case there's not much to be done to be honest.


Yes, very unfortunate we didn't see him in Le Tour. Whatever his top form is these years I think he is still capable to have the edge over Dumoulin in multi mountain hard stages which there are a few in this Giro. That in itself is not enough but race conditions are different from comparing ones ability against the other except if we're talking about TTs where Tom most likely will have over 2 minutes on Nibali.

In the mountains though there are quite a few capable riders so again, the dynamics of the race, the terrain, parcours and weather will decide. I am confident Nibali has a real chance to win the Giro but most likely we'll have no idea about his form until later in the race.

With the team Sunweb is bringing, all they're saying is "by all means attack on the Gavia Vincenzo, Tom needs some me-time"
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08 Jan 2019 18:26

Trek Segafredo's offer is clear and Nibali likes it, dudes from Bahrain suddenly trying to improvise something. My take is he'll go with Segafredo, Zanetti wants him, the best Italian rider drinking Italian coffee. Segafredo is contributing 7 million to the team and the deal is until 2020, most likely it will continue for another year if Nibali is signed. Decision around Giro time. Would be fun to see the same situation as in 2016 when Vino and some high ranked Kazakh officials were waiting for Nibs to win the Giro on that last mountain stage and then to propose him the new contract. This time it will Copeland and the prince.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bahrain-merida-offer-nibali-two-year-contract-extension-to-ward-off-trek-segafredo/
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Re: Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

08 Jan 2019 19:55

Nibali would be the most trek signing ever
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16 Jan 2019 08:30

Training camp in Cambrils, interviews. Here for Corriere della Sera. Some interesting bits:

Hungry, Vincenzo?
"Very. The crash at the Tour had caused me bad thoughts. The results at the Worlds and the Tour of Lombardy have driven them out. I'm a new Nibali."

New?
"When you break a vertebra you're not the same as before. You change balance, position in the saddle, the push on the pedals. I worked hard with gymnastics and osteopaths and now I know I can go as strong as before. Or more".

The crash in Le Tour:
"In cycling, the bad moments are there. If it's your fault, like when I made a mistake in Rio, you accept it. Otherwise it is hard.

In the fall he spent a day at the French Gendarmerie to reconstruct the episode:
“We have seen amateur videos from all angles. The fan is perfectly recognizable, but has not been identified. It is clearly seen that he sneaks away after the crash. I don’t have anything with him, but a letter of apology (also anonymous) I would have liked. "

If you didn’t crash?
"What if I had not crashed in Rio?"

We consoled ourselves with his winning move at the Sanremo. For many the most beautiful technical-tactical action of the year.
"It amazes me that so many pointed out to a miracle. The moment of the attack I have chosen on Poggio is the only point where a non-sprinter can go away. I had already tried in 2012 with Gerrans and Cancellara, but I had lost in the sprint.”

Between the Worlds and Olympics, choose one?
"Olympics. It remains with you all your life and the atmosphere is magical ".

This year?
"The Giro to win it, because I love it, because conquering the third would be fantastic. For me, the race of the year. Then the Tour, still giving the maximum."

How do you approach the targets?
"By changing. After so many years I took long vacations: I had to detach. And, on the advice of coach Paolo Slongo, I spent 50 days in the gym. So much work on abdominal and backbones and so much "core stability" to get more balance without swelling muscle mass. No exotic debut in Argentina - where we were pedaling at too low rates - first stage race in Abu Dhabi against Froome, looking for a good rhythm right away."

"We work on materials and on bikes, thanks to the collaboration with McLaren. And pay attention to the team time trial that can be decisive on the Tour. With us now there is Rohan Dennis, the best specialist in the world: he can be our propeller. In the Giro and the Tour I will have different companions for each of the events: only Damiano Caruso will race both."
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16 Jan 2019 12:33

I like the way he talks. Optimistic and motivated for the new season. He believes that he can still achieve great things and seems to have accepted what happened in the past. Looking forward to see him racing again!
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Re: Re:

16 Jan 2019 13:31

Rollthedice wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:If he is facing Simon Yates, Bernal and Dumoulin, he needs to take some risks if he want to win it.

Those guys are likely to outpace him on a MTF. He could have an ally in more aggressive riders like Landa and Bardet.


If Nibbles is in top shape, he can earn all the time he needs on Dumoulin in stages 15 and 16. As strong as Dumoulin may be, Lo Squalo at his best is a better climber than him. IMO, neither Bernal, nor Yates can TT as well as Vincenzo. He has a fair chance of winning this thing.


Nibali 2/3 years ago was a better climber than Dumoulin. However, Dumoulin clearly improved the last 2 years. I doubt Nibali has. I think Dumoulin is better than Nibali on all fronts.

The Tour this year still annoys me cause now we barely know how Nibali was doing. Both Nibali and Quintana were very underwhelming in 2017, but then that's Tom's poopy pants compensated for that.

Nibali was better in that Vuelta but the route suited him so much worse, and the only real top form he hit in the last 2 years was the fall classics of 2017.

Dumoulin was ridiculously consistent this year, but the crazy days like Oropa were definitely lacking. In Dumoulin's case I wonder if he can be at Tour weight while having the same power output, in which case there's not much to be done to be honest.


Yes, very unfortunate we didn't see him in Le Tour. Whatever his top form is these years I think he is still capable to have the edge over Dumoulin in multi mountain hard stages which there are a few in this Giro. That in itself is not enough but race conditions are different from comparing ones ability against the other except if we're talking about TTs where Tom most likely will have over 2 minutes on Nibali.

In the mountains though there are quite a few capable riders so again, the dynamics of the race, the terrain, parcours and weather will decide. I am confident Nibali has a real chance to win the Giro but most likely we'll have no idea about his form until later in the race.


Nibali is 35 in November and hasn't won a GT for almost three years. I doubt he has the edge over Dumoulin in anything now except maybe in descending and tactics. Porte riding with Nibali a few years ago probably would have helped Porte out skills wise but both of them now are firmly in their autumn years. Porte probably gets two more chances to make a podium, same with Nibali.
movingtarget
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Re:

16 Jan 2019 16:25

Rollthedice wrote:Training camp in Cambrils, interviews. Here for Corriere della Sera. Some interesting bits:

Hungry, Vincenzo?
"Very. The crash at the Tour had caused me bad thoughts. The results at the Worlds and the Tour of Lombardy have driven them out. I'm a new Nibali."

New?
"When you break a vertebra you're not the same as before. You change balance, position in the saddle, the push on the pedals. I worked hard with gymnastics and osteopaths and now I know I can go as strong as before. Or more".

The crash in Le Tour:
"In cycling, the bad moments are there. If it's your fault, like when I made a mistake in Rio, you accept it. Otherwise it is hard.

In the fall he spent a day at the French Gendarmerie to reconstruct the episode:
“We have seen amateur videos from all angles. The fan is perfectly recognizable, but has not been identified. It is clearly seen that he sneaks away after the crash. I don’t have anything with him, but a letter of apology (also anonymous) I would have liked. "

If you didn’t crash?
"What if I had not crashed in Rio?"

We consoled ourselves with his winning move at the Sanremo. For many the most beautiful technical-tactical action of the year.
"It amazes me that so many pointed out to a miracle. The moment of the attack I have chosen on Poggio is the only point where a non-sprinter can go away. I had already tried in 2012 with Gerrans and Cancellara, but I had lost in the sprint.”

Between the Worlds and Olympics, choose one?
"Olympics. It remains with you all your life and the atmosphere is magical ".

This year?
"The Giro to win it, because I love it, because conquering the third would be fantastic. For me, the race of the year. Then the Tour, still giving the maximum."

How do you approach the targets?
"By changing. After so many years I took long vacations: I had to detach. And, on the advice of coach Paolo Slongo, I spent 50 days in the gym. So much work on abdominal and backbones and so much "core stability" to get more balance without swelling muscle mass. No exotic debut in Argentina - where we were pedaling at too low rates - first stage race in Abu Dhabi against Froome, looking for a good rhythm right away."

"We work on materials and on bikes, thanks to the collaboration with McLaren. And pay attention to the team time trial that can be decisive on the Tour. With us now there is Rohan Dennis, the best specialist in the world: he can be our propeller. In the Giro and the Tour I will have different companions for each of the events: only Damiano Caruso will race both."


Please respect © RIPRODUZIONE RISERVATA, don't deprive the site of a visit.
Just post the link to the article, I'm sure forum users can all use google translate
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17 Jan 2019 04:36

Like that he's optimistic. If nothing else it's a good sign.
User avatar Koronin
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Re: Re:

17 Jan 2019 04:42

Tim Booth wrote:
Rollthedice wrote:Training camp in Cambrils, interviews. Here for Corriere della Sera. Some interesting bits:

(Long text)


Please respect © RIPRODUZIONE RISERVATA, don't deprive the site of a visit.
Just post the link to the article, I'm sure forum users can all use google translate


Or post the translated bits and the link. That way people with the required linguistic abilities can go read the original text.
Aka The Ginger One.
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20 Jan 2019 00:12

Thinking about things because I have too much time on my hands is a recurring problem for me, and I feel like I should inflict the results of this unfortunate practice on others. So, the idea that Nibali, who is one of only seven riders to win all three Grand Tours, is no better than the third-best Grand Tour rider of his generation seems astounding to me, but this is clearly the case. Apart from this generation, you only have four riders who did it, which does not leave much opportunity for them to ride against each other competitively, though Gimondi and Merckx certainly did. But such a small sample size means it is hard to draw conclusions about the riders who have won all three Grand Tours.
One thing that did occur to me is to ask if the fact that three of the seven are/were contemporaries could be a function of greater specialization on GT’s in the present world of cycling than was the case before, say, the 80’s. There are arguments against this — Wiggins and Thomas among recent GT winners had successful track backgrounds, but the last GT winner who also won a monument, other than Nibali, is Vino, correct? Others who did it are Di Luca, Cunego, Olano, Jalabert, Rominger, and Berzin, since the 80’s, but only Rominger of these won more than the one GT. And if we add the wins in GT’s and monuments for each of these riders, none of them have more than Nibali’s seven, with Rominger a close second at six.
The point of all this being another illustration of how remarkable Nibali’s career is, and yet how easy it is to discount his quality, as his success stands out more on paper than in comparison to the achievements of Froome and Contador in GT’s they raced in competition with each other. Is there a Nibali in an alternate universe who focused only on GT’s, though? What would that career look like? Or is any Nibali we could imagine, by virtue of being of the temperament that makes him Nibali, going to insist on devoting serious efforts to monuments? And does doing so make him less successful in GT’s?
Summoned
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Re:

20 Jan 2019 00:49

Summoned wrote:One thing that did occur to me is to ask if the fact that three of the seven are/were contemporaries could be a function of greater specialization on GT’s in the present world of cycling than was the case before, say, the 80’s. There are arguments against this — Wiggins and Thomas among recent GT winners had successful track backgrounds, but the last GT winner who also won a monument, other than Nibali, is Vino, correct? Others who did it are Di Luca, Cunego, Olano, Jalabert, Rominger, and Berzin, since the 80’s, but only Rominger of these won more than the one GT. And if we add the wins in GT’s and monuments for each of these riders, none of them have more than Nibali’s seven, with Rominger a close second at six.


Valverde?
dastott
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Re: Re:

20 Jan 2019 01:27

dastott wrote:
Summoned wrote:One thing that did occur to me is to ask if the fact that three of the seven are/were contemporaries could be a function of greater specialization on GT’s in the present world of cycling than was the case before, say, the 80’s. There are arguments against this — Wiggins and Thomas among recent GT winners had successful track backgrounds, but the last GT winner who also won a monument, other than Nibali, is Vino, correct? Others who did it are Di Luca, Cunego, Olano, Jalabert, Rominger, and Berzin, since the 80’s, but only Rominger of these won more than the one GT. And if we add the wins in GT’s and monuments for each of these riders, none of them have more than Nibali’s seven, with Rominger a close second at six.


Valverde?



Valverde would be. LBL (monument) in 2006, 2008, 2015 and 2017 and la Vuelta in 2009. (Now he's also won the Worlds).
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20 Jan 2019 02:58

Yeah, have to include the Worlds. Hence Valverde and Nibali being equal in the above poster's reckoning, although Nibali has won all three GTs which is pretty special I must admit.
dastott
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Re:

20 Jan 2019 03:12

dastott wrote:Yeah, have to include the Worlds. Hence Valverde and Nibali being equal in the above poster's reckoning, although Nibali has won all three GTs which is pretty special I must admit.



I'll admit Nibali's winning all 3 GTs is special as well. I think that they both have won monuments and GT's shows they are two of the most complete riders in the current peloton, while at the same time being different types of riders as well.
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20 Jan 2019 06:22

Nibali focusing on GTs alone would have changed little in terms GT wins.

Nibali focusing on Monuments and one day races alone though could have changed a lot. The problem with that strategy is that winning one day races when you can't sprint depends on many factors (tactics, luck, other riders, etc) so you might finish a season empty handed even if training hard and peaking at the right time.

GTs tend to be less random, unless you're very unlucky (Porte comes to mind). If you're a top3 GT rider and always peak at the right time it's very likely you'll end up winning some of them + podiuming a lot more.
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