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Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Re: Re:

16 May 2017 16:07

Singer01 wrote:
lenric wrote:So... are we witnessing the last good GT from Vincenzo Nibali? The last one where he has a realistic chance of winning?

Has he indicated whether he plans on doing the Tour this year? If not, with this form, and everyone else having a Tour in their legs, I'd say he would be one of the top favourites if he had a good rest and committed to the Vuelta.

Not sure he'll ever want to see Angliru again, having been Hornered there last time.
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16 May 2017 16:13

I'm actually pretty sure the plan is to go Giro-Vuelta for Nibali. He got his petty revenge on Horner a long time ago.
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
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Re: Nibali discussion thread

16 May 2017 16:26

I really hope Nibali goes to the Vuelta. It made sense to go to the tour last year since he wanted to win the Olympic RR, but a tdf stage win wouldn't really add that much to his palmares, so he doesn't really have a reason to go there this year. Actually I think a Vuelta stage win would add more to his palmares since he (unofficially) still hasn't won a single stage there.
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Re:

16 May 2017 16:28

Red Rick wrote:I'm actually pretty sure the plan is to go Giro-Vuelta for Nibali. He got his petty revenge on Horner a long time ago.

Yeah, in all seriousness, he should do really. Difficult to see what the Tour offers for him, unless his new sponsors really want him there. He could win a stage or two I guess, but I doubt that's going to motivate him much for three more weeks of hard racing.

Vuelta could throw him into a nice peak as well for the late season Italian classics.
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Re:

16 May 2017 16:33

SeriousSam wrote:Perfect scenario for Nibali would be something like where he goes along with Quintana and Movistar when they kill off Doumolin, but remains close enough to Quintana to win the Giro in the last time trial


That would be a possible scenario but there is a little time gap to worry about and another TT. It's all about Dumoulin's climbing legs now and whether he can team up with other riders to control Movistar, enough to make a difference anyway. To me Movistar are not as good as the Astana team from a few years ago. Of course it's also possible for Dumoulin to work with Nibali depending on how good Quintana is climbing. The last thing Dumoulin wants is to be isolated or have a mechanical at the wrong time.
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16 May 2017 16:33

Giro Vuelta was the official plan at the start of the season, apparently Ion will get a chance to ride for himself at the Tour (there's no pressure to finish high on gc, the team just wants to see what he can do).
He's in a good postition right now.
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16 May 2017 16:34

All depends on the Giro outcome. Slongo said at some point TdF is not excluded. But let's enjoy his excellent performance today. Dumourain was in another league but all the other goals were reached today. Slongo was pacing him from the car, apparently his power meter didn't work, it only showed the speed!
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Re: Re:

16 May 2017 16:49

movingtarget wrote:
SeriousSam wrote:Perfect scenario for Nibali would be something like where he goes along with Quintana and Movistar when they kill off Doumolin, but remains close enough to Quintana to win the Giro in the last time trial


That would be a possible scenario but there is a little time gap to worry about and another TT. It's all about Dumoulin's climbing legs now and whether he can team up with other riders to control Movistar, enough to make a difference anyway. To me Movistar are not as good as the Astana team from a few years ago. Of course it's also possible for Dumoulin to work with Nibali depending on how good Quintana is climbing. The last thing Dumoulin wants is to be isolated or have a mechanical at the wrong time.


There's no way Nibali or any other GC guy works with Dumoulin as long he's in the leader's jersey. Dumoulin and his team must control everything, and imo they can not do that. There will be chaos on the road, and that's where Nibali steps in. We're going to witness some very interesting racing from now on...
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16 May 2017 16:52

What's there to do for Nibali at the Tour? Especially after a Giro? That's like leaving your girlfriend to go to your ex-wife begging her to take you back when she's remarried and moved on with her life.
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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16 May 2017 17:12

Great ride from Nibs today, did not expect him to be so high in the overall list.

He must be pleased about the GC situation, Dumoulins eyes will have to be all over Quintana and that is where Nibs tries to attack.

But as someone said already, wheelsucking Nairo up to last ITT maintaining this time difference would probably not be that bad place to be.
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Re: Nibali discussion thread

16 May 2017 18:11

Carols wrote:Good Ride Vince!!! I think he did very well. Sure Major Tom is looking awesome, but Nibs is taking time on Nairo and I don't think Tom will last through week 3 :).

EDIT: He took time on Quintana, Pinot and Mollema on a ITT. The omens are good IMO :).


More or less, my prediction for today was right. Vincenzo paced himself really well. Tomorrow is a good opportunity for him to put time into everyone.
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Re: Nibali discussion thread

16 May 2017 19:56

Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:
Carols wrote:Good Ride Vince!!! I think he did very well. Sure Major Tom is looking awesome, but Nibs is taking time on Nairo and I don't think Tom will last through week 3 :).

EDIT: He took time on Quintana, Pinot and Mollema on a ITT. The omens are good IMO :).


More or less, my prediction for today was right. Vincenzo paced himself really well. Tomorrow is a good opportunity for him to put time into everyone.


We can hope the team is hatching a workable plan right now :). It's a shame his team had a rider tossed :(.
Carol S.
~~~~
Alberto Contador: "And yes, it is true that for me it's the same to finish second or 10th."

Vincezo Nibali joins Anquetil, Gimondi, Merckx, Hinault and Contador as only the 6th winner of all 3 Grand Tours! Bravo Lo Squalo!
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16 May 2017 20:01

I think this TT was ok, not great.
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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16 May 2017 20:04

Really solid performance considering he was riding on feeling.
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Re: Nibali discussion thread

16 May 2017 20:05

Carols wrote:
Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:
Carols wrote:Good Ride Vince!!! I think he did very well. Sure Major Tom is looking awesome, but Nibs is taking time on Nairo and I don't think Tom will last through week 3 :).

EDIT: He took time on Quintana, Pinot and Mollema on a ITT. The omens are good IMO :).


More or less, my prediction for today was right. Vincenzo paced himself really well. Tomorrow is a good opportunity for him to put time into everyone.


We can hope the team is hatching a workable plan right now :). It's a shame his team had a rider tossed :(.


Moreno's DSQ is definitely a big loss.. A good team strategy and placement can be really helpful tomorrow.
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Re:

16 May 2017 20:11

Red Rick wrote:I think this TT was ok, not great.


Given that he didn't put in an "ok" TT since Tour 2014, I think we can consider this "great'.
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Re: Re:

16 May 2017 23:52

Rollthedice wrote:
Red Rick wrote:I think this TT was ok, not great.


Given that he didn't put in an "ok" TT since Tour 2014, I think we can consider this "great'.

"OK" because TD did what he did. Had Dumoulin won by 5 secs over GT, the gaps wouldn't be as bad. Dumourain's time, performance, makes others' look bad. Like Luxembourg '92 in a way.

Nibali is not done. He's on the decline, no doubt, but he's a heck of a rider and a competitor.
When I woke up and saw the yellow jersey that I had left by my bed the night before, I asked myself: "what are you doing in Merckx's bedroom?" I couldn't believe it - Bernard Thevenet
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Re: Re:

17 May 2017 03:42

Mr.White wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
SeriousSam wrote:Perfect scenario for Nibali would be something like where he goes along with Quintana and Movistar when they kill off Doumolin, but remains close enough to Quintana to win the Giro in the last time trial


That would be a possible scenario but there is a little time gap to worry about and another TT. It's all about Dumoulin's climbing legs now and whether he can team up with other riders to control Movistar, enough to make a difference anyway. To me Movistar are not as good as the Astana team from a few years ago. Of course it's also possible for Dumoulin to work with Nibali depending on how good Quintana is climbing. The last thing Dumoulin wants is to be isolated or have a mechanical at the wrong time.


There's no way Nibali or any other GC guy works with Dumoulin as long he's in the leader's jersey. Dumoulin and his team must control everything, and imo they can not do that. There will be chaos on the road, and that's where Nibali steps in. We're going to witness some very interesting racing from now on...


If Quintana is up the road of course Nibali and Dumoulin would help each other. What is their option ? Wait for the rest ? If Nibali saw a podium slipping away and Dumoulin the Pink they would work together if they had to. The second TT will already be at the back of Quintana's mind. Nibali is in a good position if he climbs well but it also is an advantage for Dumoulin because at some point his team will have to be helped if other riders want to make the podium. They might wear down Dumoulin's team but it's Dumoulin himself they have to worry about. Contador is the sort of rider that could exploit this situation and it remains to be seen how Movistar do it and will they be successful ? A war of attrition on Dumoulin will help Nibali and Quintana but maybe not enough to blunt his performance in the second TT. Interesting says ahead.
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17 May 2017 08:26

Im not that sure Nibali is on active decline. Sure, he hasn't repeated the form of 2013 and 2014, but I'm ot sure that's due to age. He stopped trying in **** small races (cav approves) and continued winning big ones so far.
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re: Re:

17 May 2017 08:48

Mr.White wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
SeriousSam wrote:Perfect scenario for Nibali would be something like where he goes along with Quintana and Movistar when they kill off Doumolin, but remains close enough to Quintana to win the Giro in the last time trial


That would be a possible scenario but there is a little time gap to worry about and another TT. It's all about Dumoulin's climbing legs now and whether he can team up with other riders to control Movistar, enough to make a difference anyway. To me Movistar are not as good as the Astana team from a few years ago. Of course it's also possible for Dumoulin to work with Nibali depending on how good Quintana is climbing. The last thing Dumoulin wants is to be isolated or have a mechanical at the wrong time.


There's no way Nibali or any other GC guy works with Dumoulin as long he's in the leader's jersey. Dumoulin and his team must control everything, and imo they can not do that. There will be chaos on the road, and that's where Nibali steps in. We're going to witness some very interesting racing from now on...


Part of the reason the team having the leader's jersey has to control the race is that it's a norm, but behind that norm is a strategic reason: When you have the leader's jersey, you usually have most to lose from someone getting away and capturing it and possibly gaining a huge amount of time. So because you have so much to lose, you're more willing to pay the price entailed by having to control the race

But other GC contenders could be damaged by an uncontrolled race as well, especially those who think they have a good chance to win, such as Quintana.

Dumoulin should stay glued to the wheel of Quintana and rely on the fact that Movistar will want to preserve Quintana's chance to win the Giro.
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