Log in:  

Register

Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Eshnar, Irondan, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 06:59

Koronin wrote:
Summoned wrote:If Nibali is disappointed in the performance in the TTT, then I think he may have had unrealistic expectations. Given the team he had, I think losing less than 1:30 is quite acceptable. But this raises the question of how he had envisioned his strategy for the rest of the Tour playing out. Is the concern the time he lost over expectations, or the number of GC contenders who are in front of him now? If he genuinely expected not to be a minute behind Froome and Porte at this point, I am thinking he had a poorly planned vision for success in the Tour. Yes, he is not a minute behind Froome and Porte now, but are the riders he is a minute behind that much more significant threats to him moving up the classification?



I'm also surprised by his reaction. What exactly did he expect? I think most of us expected him to loose around a minute and half maybe a bit more and be in the same situation as Bardet and AG2R. So in truth he's not in that bad of shape. A very different reaction to that of 2 of Movistar's leaders who are more than happy with where they currently are.


They were expecting at most one minute loss which was achieved more or less but they had new bikes and put a lot of work beforehand just to come up short with a few riders. In the end the differences were smaller for the majority of teams which makes it frustrating that they didn't go faster, somewhere at Movistar and depleted Astana level. The reaction was in the heat of the moment when you just dodged a bullet. It was a dangerous situation to be left with four for the last 8 Km, one of them the great time trialist Pozzovivo, one problem and he could've packed his bags. Again the positive is that he looks in good shape, basically he brought almost single-handedly the team home in the last part of the stage.
User avatar Rollthedice
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,341
Joined: 11 May 2013 10:59

Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 07:55

Rollthedice wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Summoned wrote:If Nibali is disappointed in the performance in the TTT, then I think he may have had unrealistic expectations. Given the team he had, I think losing less than 1:30 is quite acceptable. But this raises the question of how he had envisioned his strategy for the rest of the Tour playing out. Is the concern the time he lost over expectations, or the number of GC contenders who are in front of him now? If he genuinely expected not to be a minute behind Froome and Porte at this point, I am thinking he had a poorly planned vision for success in the Tour. Yes, he is not a minute behind Froome and Porte now, but are the riders he is a minute behind that much more significant threats to him moving up the classification?



I'm also surprised by his reaction. What exactly did he expect? I think most of us expected him to loose around a minute and half maybe a bit more and be in the same situation as Bardet and AG2R. So in truth he's not in that bad of shape. A very different reaction to that of 2 of Movistar's leaders who are more than happy with where they currently are.


They were expecting at most one minute loss which was achieved more or less but they had new bikes and put a lot of work beforehand just to come up short with a few riders. In the end the differences were smaller for the majority of teams which makes it frustrating that they didn't go faster, somewhere at Movistar and depleted Astana level. The reaction was in the heat of the moment when you just dodged a bullet. It was a dangerous situation to be left with four for the last 8 Km, one of them the great time trialist Pozzovivo, one problem and he could've packed his bags. Again the positive is that he looks in good shape, basically he brought almost single-handedly the team home in the last part of the stage.


This is the main reason for his reaction, i think... He wasn't dissapointed with the time loss, but with the danger situation in which he found himself. One puncture, and his Tour sails away...
User avatar Blanco
Member
 
Posts: 1,301
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 19:33
Location: Serbia

Re:

10 Jul 2018 08:00

Red Rick wrote:Froome and Dumoulin are 90% of the relevant competition here.


I don't think they're more than 20%.
Froome is a big question mark, because of the Giro, and Dumoulin is not a question mark, he'll fade badly in the Alps and Pyrenees especially.
User avatar Blanco
Member
 
Posts: 1,301
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 19:33
Location: Serbia

Re:

10 Jul 2018 12:24

Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:Long before the Tour I felt sure that yesterday Mohoric would have been more helpful than Koren, for example.

Mohoric is a way better rider, but he rode the Giro and he's still only 23. I don't think bringing him to the Tour would have been a wise choice.
User avatar SafeBet
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,069
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 13:38
Location: Milano, Italy

Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 12:41

SafeBet wrote:
Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:Long before the Tour I felt sure that yesterday Mohoric would have been more helpful than Koren, for example.

Mohoric is a way better rider, but he rode the Giro and he's still only 23. I don't think bringing him to the Tour would have been a wise choice.


He seems to be in great shape...same for Visconti. Both won stages in Austria this week.
skippo12
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 14 May 2017 14:34

Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 12:48

skippo12 wrote:
SafeBet wrote:
Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:Long before the Tour I felt sure that yesterday Mohoric would have been more helpful than Koren, for example.

Mohoric is a way better rider, but he rode the Giro and he's still only 23. I don't think bringing him to the Tour would have been a wise choice.


He seems to be in great shape...same for Visconti. Both won stages in Austria this week.


That doesn’t mean he would have lasted through another GT. Also what was his competition like?
Skyline Drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPjM6rZ4pN0
_____________________________________________________________________________
Canton Ave Climb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90ZPlbEfmU
User avatar Jspear
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,532
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 03:50
Location: N. VA, USA

Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 13:30

skippo12 wrote:
SafeBet wrote:
Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:Long before the Tour I felt sure that yesterday Mohoric would have been more helpful than Koren, for example.

Mohoric is a way better rider, but he rode the Giro and he's still only 23. I don't think bringing him to the Tour would have been a wise choice.


He seems to be in great shape...same for Visconti. Both won stages in Austria this week.


Visconti has never been really a valuable domestic, he is stage hunter by nature. And in general Visconti sucks in TT's, good shape or not + he doesn't have results/experience from cobbled classics.

Mohoric is absolute monster in making, but indeed has Giro in his legs.

I could have thought about bringing Padun, but I guess they thought he is still too young.
bambino
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: 24 May 2013 10:37

10 Jul 2018 17:03

Nibali likes to say tranquilo a lot but you can tell from a mile away he is one fidgety, stressing and impulsive guy. He lacks some introspection. Lets face it, he's probably the best TTer on that team, so when he was left with four guys and 10 kilometres still to go, it's entirely his fault.
hazaran
Member
 
Posts: 422
Joined: 14 Jul 2015 00:37

Re:

10 Jul 2018 17:15

hazaran wrote:Nibali likes to say tranquilo a lot but you can tell from a mile away he is one fidgety, stressing and impulsive guy. He lacks some introspection. Lets face it, he's probably the best TTer on that team, so when he was left with four guys and 10 kilometres still to go, it's entirely his fault.


I personally think both Izaguirres are better/similar TTers than Nibs. They were just #2 and #3 in Spanish champs losing only around half minute to Castroviejo in bit less than 40km. And Castroviejo in around TOP 5 TTer in the world.

Nibs probably indeed got pretty worried the Tour would be gone with one single flat in that last 8km.
Last edited by bambino on 10 Jul 2018 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
bambino
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: 24 May 2013 10:37

10 Jul 2018 17:15

If Nibali had slowed down to keep 5 in the train, then they would have been slower and lost more time. I think he was frustrated because he would have expected 1 or 2 more to keep up.
topcat
Junior Member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: 04 Jul 2016 21:59

Re: Re:

11 Jul 2018 08:47

bambino wrote:
hazaran wrote:Nibali likes to say tranquilo a lot but you can tell from a mile away he is one fidgety, stressing and impulsive guy. He lacks some introspection. Lets face it, he's probably the best TTer on that team, so when he was left with four guys and 10 kilometres still to go, it's entirely his fault.


I personally think both Izaguirres are better/similar TTers than Nibs. They were just #2 and #3 in Spanish champs losing only around half minute to Castroviejo in bit less than 40km. And Castroviejo in around TOP 5 TTer in the world.

Nibs probably indeed got pretty worried the Tour would be gone with one single flat in that last 8km.


I think this is the case really. They clearly didn't plan to lose everyone when they did and when you set off you know the pacing you're trying to keep and what is expected of everyone so it's always going to be stressful to find yourself so close to disaster.

The time loss wasn't a disaster by any means but it's never a good feeling.

Just needs some strong days through to next week now and then we'll see if we can get the party started
User avatar Eclipse
Member
 
Posts: 1,292
Joined: 22 May 2014 20:41

11 Jul 2018 09:03

Today and tomorrow will show us whether he is in exceptional shape or not. These 2 stages are the ones where he will most likely lose some time to more explosive GC finishers. He is definitely in the shape to win it if he can come comfortably to the line with the main rivals (Froome, Porte, Bardet, Dumoulin, Landa, Quintana, Uran, Fuglsang...). Expecting the likes of Valverde, Thomas, Yates and Martin to gain few seconds which doesn't really matter.
bambino
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: 24 May 2013 10:37

11 Jul 2018 15:31

Oh baby he looks good
User avatar Eclipse
Member
 
Posts: 1,292
Joined: 22 May 2014 20:41

Re: Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

11 Jul 2018 15:39

He s looking good indeed :D
But it was a hard stage and they rode pretty hard which is better for him. Tommorow will be dangerous with only mur de bretagne.
Shame sonny couldnt win.
Lo squalo di messina
Junior Member
 
Posts: 91
Joined: 05 Sep 2017 17:05

Re:

11 Jul 2018 15:42

Eclipse wrote:Oh baby he looks good


This...if he can top 10 in an uphill sprint he is in a really good form. Hopefully he can do the same tomorrow.
There was small gap with 500m to go and he was the only GC rider to make the split. Valverde and Martin closed the gap.
skippo12
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 14 May 2017 14:34

11 Jul 2018 15:48

A good day, looking strong and smooth :)
Alberto Contador=Legend!

Nibali becomes only the 6th winner of all 3 GTS (2014)!
Nibali joins Gimondi, Merckx and Hinault as only the 4th man to win all 3 GTS and 2 different Monuments (2018). A throwback rider in this age of specialization. Bravo!
User avatar Carols
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,145
Joined: 20 Mar 2010 15:20
Location: PA, USA

Re: Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

11 Jul 2018 15:57

He looked superb. Unfortunately the pace dropped since otherwise he might have taken a few seconds on his biggest rivals. Anyway, I'm really confident now. Guys like Froome are supposed to be better on this kind of finish yet Nibali seemingly easily passed him after being positioned a lot worse. I don't think there will be any time gaps tomorrow but if his shape really is as good as it looks he might cause havoc on Sunday.
User avatar Gigs_98
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,513
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 18:36
Location: Austria

11 Jul 2018 17:47

The secret? Horse meat. He loves it, the Italian TBM cook prepares delicious horse meat hamburgers.
User avatar Rollthedice
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,341
Joined: 11 May 2013 10:59

11 Jul 2018 17:47

He did deliver real message to all opponents today. Hope he can manage similarly tomorrow, but I don't see why not. If he can develop his shape towards the end of the GT as he normally does... it is going to be interesting.
bambino
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: 24 May 2013 10:37

11 Jul 2018 18:18

Wait, we're hyping Nibali because he finished 10th on this stage next to all the other contenders? On a silly stage like this?

If this is such a grand achievement you guys must be tipping Pasqualon, 9th and 30 years old, winner of the illustrious Skoda Tour, as an upcoming GC winner.
hazaran
Member
 
Posts: 422
Joined: 14 Jul 2015 00:37

PreviousNext

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: barmaher, dacooley, davebqvst, Dekker_Tifosi, Google [Bot], janraaskalt, Simurgh and 42 guests

Back to top