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Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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Re:

16 Sep 2017 22:49

LaFlorecita wrote:Well, I am entirely comfortable because I know it wasn't gifted. Poels and Froome chased as hard as they could to catch him, but the distance was too short to make up a full minute. If they had started their full on chase a km or 2 earlier, they almost certainly would have caught him. But they didn't, tough luck. In the end it doesn't matter, Alberto had built a big advantage earlier and as such had enough of a buffer to be first to cross the line, which is what counts.


:eek: :eek: :eek:
User avatar Bot. Sky_Bot
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Re:

16 Sep 2017 23:49

LaFlorecita wrote:Well, I am entirely comfortable because I know it wasn't gifted. Poels and Froome chased as hard as they could to catch him, but the distance was too short to make up a full minute. If they had started their full on chase a km or 2 earlier, they almost certainly would have caught him. But they didn't, tough luck. In the end it doesn't matter, Alberto had built a big advantage earlier and as such had enough of a buffer to be first to cross the line, which is what counts.


Me too. I watched it again, in fact, with this thought in mind, wondering how much I might feel it was gifted after the tension was gone. I didn't at all. To believe it was orchestrated involves just too many people to be willing to take risks on their position. Yeah, obv. Mas was involved from the get go; Soler clearly chipped in. But that's not exactly a shocker.
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 04:45

LaFlorecita wrote:Well, I am entirely comfortable because I know it wasn't gifted. Poels and Froome chased as hard as they could to catch him, but the distance was too short to make up a full minute. If they had started their full on chase a km or 2 earlier, they almost certainly would have caught him. But they didn't, tough luck. In the end it doesn't matter, Alberto had built a big advantage earlier and as such had enough of a buffer to be first to cross the line, which is what counts.


I think you're being to generous to Froome. :p
If Froomie had started super hard earlier, he would have blown himself up and lost even more time. He attacked when his computer told him to. Regardless he wasn't going to be able to stay with AC that particular day.
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 06:52

Jspear wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:Well, I am entirely comfortable because I know it wasn't gifted. Poels and Froome chased as hard as they could to catch him, but the distance was too short to make up a full minute. If they had started their full on chase a km or 2 earlier, they almost certainly would have caught him. But they didn't, tough luck. In the end it doesn't matter, Alberto had built a big advantage earlier and as such had enough of a buffer to be first to cross the line, which is what counts.


I think you're being to generous to Froome. :p
If Froomie had started super hard earlier, he would have blown himself up and lost even more time. He attacked when his computer told him to. Regardless he wasn't going to be able to stay with AC that particular day.

what? the took over 1 minute from Bertie in just over 1.5k...they went earlier they were catching bertie.

but its all done now, Contador got his win and his fans can be happy
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 06:57

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:Well, I am entirely comfortable because I know it wasn't gifted. Poels and Froome chased as hard as they could to catch him, but the distance was too short to make up a full minute. If they had started their full on chase a km or 2 earlier, they almost certainly would have caught him. But they didn't, tough luck. In the end it doesn't matter, Alberto had built a big advantage earlier and as such had enough of a buffer to be first to cross the line, which is what counts.


:eek: :eek: :eek:

:razz:
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 07:46

rick james wrote:
Jspear wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:Well, I am entirely comfortable because I know it wasn't gifted. Poels and Froome chased as hard as they could to catch him, but the distance was too short to make up a full minute. If they had started their full on chase a km or 2 earlier, they almost certainly would have caught him. But they didn't, tough luck. In the end it doesn't matter, Alberto had built a big advantage earlier and as such had enough of a buffer to be first to cross the line, which is what counts.


I think you're being to generous to Froome. :p
If Froomie had started super hard earlier, he would have blown himself up and lost even more time. He attacked when his computer told him to. Regardless he wasn't going to be able to stay with AC that particular day.

what? the took over 1 minute from Bertie in just over 1.5k...they went earlier they were catching bertie.

but its all done now, Contador got his win and his fans can be happy


Even Sky'bots' are not machines. There is no guarantee that they would have caught Contador if they had attacked earlier.

No gift.
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17 Sep 2017 08:04

Not a gift. I posted this earlier in a different thread, but I'm not above repeating myself. Froome had blown up badly on the similar stage a few stages before, only this was much longer and the potential losses much larger. He was likely concerned he'd blow up again and lose his lead over Nibali. Therefore, his strategy was to mark Nibali and hold onto his lead. When it became apparent that Nibali did not have it and that Froome had survived without blowing up, he and Poels attacked. They went full gas from there to try to catch Contador and came close. Not a gift. They were able to attack so hard because they'd been riding in a bunch relatively conservatively. If they'd been riding alone or attacked sooner, they would have been more fatigued. It's silly to assume that because they attacked so hard they could have maintained that pace if they'd attacked sooner. Contador put 1:20 into everyone pretty quickly, by he didn't continue adding time at that rate. That's why they're called attacks. It's a violent expenditure of energy designed to quickly put time into rivals at an unsustainable rate.
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 08:24

LaFlorecita wrote:Well, I am entirely comfortable because I know it wasn't gifted. Poels and Froome chased as hard as they could to catch him, but the distance was too short to make up a full minute. If they had started their full on chase a km or 2 earlier, they almost certainly would have caught him. But they didn't, tough luck. In the end it doesn't matter, Alberto had built a big advantage earlier and as such had enough of a buffer to be first to cross the line, which is what counts.


Have to agree that he won it rather than being gifted. Froome had to make sure he had Nibali where he wanted before he could go on the chase to Contador as Nibali was the bigger threat to him. Contador deserved his stage win after all the work he did trying in previous stages. I think he knew deep down that he wouldn't be able to win overall but as long as he got his stage win, he was happy, and that it happened on the Angliru made it all the more special. Hope he has a happy retirement and his foundation produces something special in the future.
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 08:39

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:Well, I am entirely comfortable because I know it wasn't gifted. Poels and Froome chased as hard as they could to catch him, but the distance was too short to make up a full minute. If they had started their full on chase a km or 2 earlier, they almost certainly would have caught him. But they didn't, tough luck. In the end it doesn't matter, Alberto had built a big advantage earlier and as such had enough of a buffer to be first to cross the line, which is what counts.


:eek: :eek: :eek:

Yes they made the wrong call, Poels was very strong. It's all hypothetical but he looked to be the strongest on the final climb (I mean, how else can you freewheel through a 25% inner corner...). But in the end Contador completed the course in the fastest time and by a pretty large margin in fact despite riding a large part of the climb alone. For many km's he managed to consolidate and build his advantage vs a large group of riders with domestiques working for them. He was definitely the 2nd strongest rider on the day and possibly the strongest and that win showed strength, determination, skill and class. It's a shame Sky fanboys can't admit that.

Edit: oh, just saw at least one wheresmybrakes was prepared to admit Contador won fair and square. Thank goodness.
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 10:24

VayaVayaVaya wrote:Not a gift. I posted this earlier in a different thread, but I'm not above repeating myself. Froome had blown up badly on the similar stage a few stages before, only this was much longer and the potential losses much larger. He was likely concerned he'd blow up again and lose his lead over Nibali. Therefore, his strategy was to mark Nibali and hold onto his lead. When it became apparent that Nibali did not have it and that Froome had survived without blowing up, he and Poels attacked. They went full gas from there to try to catch Contador and came close. Not a gift. They were able to attack so hard because they'd been riding in a bunch relatively conservatively. If they'd been riding alone or attacked sooner, they would have been more fatigued. It's silly to assume that because they attacked so hard they could have maintained that pace if they'd attacked sooner. Contador put 1:20 into everyone pretty quickly, by he didn't continue adding time at that rate. That's why they're called attacks. It's a violent expenditure of energy designed to quickly put time into rivals at an unsustainable rate.


I do recall a post stage interview with Froome stating that they were cautious out of fear that he may blow if they pushed too hard too early for too long. Once Nibali lost contact they decided to attempt to win the stage with Poels. For anyone to use the fact that a rider that had been on the attack since even before the start of such a climb as l'Angliru and had lost a portion of their original advantage is pretty much clueless. Of course they lost a big portion of their gap. They had been riding hard for a significant period of time and aren't likely to hold that advantage to the finish.
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17 Sep 2017 13:59

The tunnel vision of certain posts is a really hillarious read.

Alberto rode the climb only 8 seconds slower than Froome/Poels (and 10 seconds faster than Zakarin) despite riding alone and taking more wind (which there was plenty of) for the last 8 or 9 km's. If Alberto had not attacked on the descent of Cordal and waited with his attack, it is certain that he'd have had much more power saved for the Cueña les Cabres sector (where Nibali cracked). Could he have followed or beaten Froome/Poels with that strategy? Probably yes, but we can never tell.

In the end, it's a matter of how the riders disposed their powers. Alberto stretched his lead in the opening kilometers of the steep part of Angliru. Froome/Poels saved energy and had more left for the last part. So the "took over 1 minute from Bertie in just over 1.5k"-argument (actually closer to 50 seconds) is not a proof that Froome/Poels was stronger, like some posters desperately want it to be.
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17 Sep 2017 15:49

It'.s more important that Contador personally thanked every rider ( no matter how small ) who helped him climb Angliru.
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 16:30

Cance > TheRest wrote:The tunnel vision of certain posts is a really hillarious read.

Alberto rode the climb only 8 seconds slower than Froome/Poels (and 10 seconds faster than Zakarin) despite riding alone and taking more wind (which there was plenty of) for the last 8 or 9 km's. If Alberto had not attacked on the descent of Cordal and waited with his attack, it is certain that he'd have had much more power saved for the Cueña les Cabres sector (where Nibali cracked). Could he have followed or beaten Froome/Poels with that strategy? Probably yes, but we can never tell.

In the end, it's a matter of how the riders disposed their powers. Alberto stretched his lead in the opening kilometers of the steep part of Angliru. Froome/Poels saved energy and had more left for the last part. So the "took over 1 minute from Bertie in just over 1.5k"-argument (actually closer to 50 seconds) is not a proof that Froome/Poels was stronger, like some posters desperately want it to be.

Love your profile picture :) :)
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 16:31

yaco wrote:It'.s more important that Contador personally thanked every rider ( no matter how small ) who helped him climb Angliru.

No surprise of course, he is a gentleman :)
Image
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17 Sep 2017 17:52

I was surprised the yatesies helped him, but pleasantly :)
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 19:41

Kwibus wrote:I was surprised the yatesies helped him, but pleasantly :)

It looked as if everybody wanted to be next to him in his farewell ride. Even Froome and Poels wanted to join :D
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 19:46

LaFlorecita wrote:
yaco wrote:It'.s more important that Contador personally thanked every rider ( no matter how small ) who helped him climb Angliru.

No surprise of course, he is a gentleman :)
Image

I'd like to see a picture out of the same camera perspective but 5 seconds earlier to see Alberto's confused face thinking "god damnit, which one was it" :D
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17 Sep 2017 19:58

Funny reading about Froome giving presents to Contador.
Yes, should it be the fight between Contador and Froome for the stage with no GC, I'd bet on Froome. He would start chasing sooner and he would quite possibly catch Contador.
But there was Vuelta at stake and should Froome go for the stage (=start chasing Contador sooner) he would risk his Vuelta GC.
He made calculated decision to play it safe by marking Nibali and he went for the stage only when he felt it was safe (too late).
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 19:58

Gigs_98 wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:
yaco wrote:It'.s more important that Contador personally thanked every rider ( no matter how small ) who helped him climb Angliru.

No surprise of course, he is a gentleman :)
Image

I'd like to see a picture out of the same camera perspective but 5 seconds earlier to see Alberto's confused face thinking "god damnit, which one was it" :D

:lol:
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 20:10

Gigs_98 wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:
yaco wrote:It'.s more important that Contador personally thanked every rider ( no matter how small ) who helped him climb Angliru.

No surprise of course, he is a gentleman :)
Image

I'd like to see a picture out of the same camera perspective but 5 seconds earlier to see Alberto's confused face thinking "god damnit, which one was it" :D


<glances down, sees 48 number on bike> "Adam! How's it going."
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