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Best and Worst National Champs jerseys

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Re: Re:

04 Jul 2018 21:45

GuyIncognito wrote:
Koronin wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:
I really don't like the German one. Almost all white, with really thin flag stripes. I guess to make it look significantly different from the Belgian flipped striped jersey.


Just convince the Belgians to have the red bit on the top, so the Germans can have the black bit.

And I suppose the simpler a flag is, the easier it is to design a good national jersey.



Well Movistar can't even manage to do a nice Spanish Champion jersey. That's not exactly a difficult flag to do deal with, but they just put a swoosh of color on the upper right breast and left shoulder it is really sad. They don't even try to do something with the two colors, don't mind the crown design on the flag that will never made it to the jersey.


They claim the sponsor forces them on the men's team.

Let's wait a few days to find out what Merino and Biannic's jerseys look like, and we'll find out if it's true


edit: just as I speak, Biannic posts hers
Image

RedheadDane wrote:What about Ludvigsson?
Though, I'm not so sure about this. Guess it's just a case of "that's how we do it in Lithuania".


This makes it weirder:

http://tourdejose.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/20130101-012236.jpg



If it's a case of sponsors forcing it on the men's team and not the women's, then we now have solid proof that they aren't really putting any money into the women's team and the women's team is truly nothing more than a tax write off. (Yes the Spanish govt put in place some sort of major tax break for increasing women's sports.) That actually might even be sadder.
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04 Jul 2018 21:50

I wouldn't go that far. Probably the sponsor contract didn't predict this so they took advantage.
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Re: Re:

04 Jul 2018 22:08

Given the improvement in level from some of the women given the proper pro budget and racing calendar I wouldn't be so quick to write it off as a tax issue. However there was talk of Burgos starting up a women's team too, so there is the possibility of that given that, you know, Movistar have already hoovered up most of the best women in Spain...
RedheadDane wrote:
jaylew wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:But... that's the thing; a national champion jersey really is "just a flag"

Unless you're British, in which case you'll be wearing the Dutch flag for some reason…

Ugh, that one is the absolute worst. And that's not really true. It is for some countries, certainly not all.


What national champion jerseys - other than the British, Australian, and New Zealand - aren't in it's core a flag?

Here's one of Ash Moolman-Pasio's old jerseys, South Africa used to be similar but have adopted a flag-based one in recent years, possibly following pressure from the MTN team who started that tendency.

Image
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04 Jul 2018 22:13

The fact they signed most of the best Spanish female cyclists, the possibility of them having a national championship was fairly high.

I do actually hope the women's team isn't just a tax write for both team and sponsor.
Last edited by Koronin on 04 Jul 2018 22:15, edited 1 time in total.
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04 Jul 2018 22:15

We haven't seen Eider's jersey yet though, it could be equally as bad as the men's ones.

Even back at Caisse d'Epargne, Florent Brard's jersey was a bit different to the Spanish ones in design (smaller central stripe, sponsor logo reduced with the logo to one side of the font rather than larger logo and font below):

Image

Edit: and we still have to wait on Jasinska's.
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Re:

04 Jul 2018 22:17

Libertine Seguros wrote:We haven't seen Eider's jersey yet though, it could be equally as bad as the men's ones.

Even back at Caisse d'Epargne, Florent Brard's jersey was a bit different to the Spanish ones in design (smaller central stripe, sponsor logo reduced with the logo to one side of the font rather than larger logo and font below):

Image

Edit: and we still have to wait on Jasinska's.



Interesting. Maybe it's just the Spanish Championship kits they don't like doing anything much with.
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04 Jul 2018 22:37

Unfortunately they didn't do much with Malori's either.
Oliveira's and Dowsett's are kinda normal for those countries

https://www.repstatic.it/content/nazionale/img/2016/01/23/123823055-66e3ef92-3e06-4cee-834d-64925f8509da.jpg

Libertine Seguros wrote:
Edit: and we still have to wait on Jasinska's.


You're right, I'd completely forgotten.
Will be very interesting to see Movistar's take on the chicken
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05 Jul 2018 00:01

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Re: Re:

05 Jul 2018 01:09

Koronin wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:We haven't seen Eider's jersey yet though, it could be equally as bad as the men's ones.

Even back at Caisse d'Epargne, Florent Brard's jersey was a bit different to the Spanish ones in design (smaller central stripe, sponsor logo reduced with the logo to one side of the font rather than larger logo and font below):

Image

Edit: and we still have to wait on Jasinska's.



Interesting. Maybe it's just the Spanish Championship kits they don't like doing anything much with.


I would guess that the difference is that the French federation take a harder line on half-assed national jerseys. In the unlikely event that Movistar win the men’s French nationals, I would expect a tricolor jersey too.
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Re: Re:

05 Jul 2018 01:16

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Koronin wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:We haven't seen Eider's jersey yet though, it could be equally as bad as the men's ones.

Even back at Caisse d'Epargne, Florent Brard's jersey was a bit different to the Spanish ones in design (smaller central stripe, sponsor logo reduced with the logo to one side of the font rather than larger logo and font below):

Image

Edit: and we still have to wait on Jasinska's.



Interesting. Maybe it's just the Spanish Championship kits they don't like doing anything much with.


I would guess that the difference is that the French federation take a harder line on half-assed national jerseys. In the unlikely event that Movistar win the men’s French nationals, I would expect a tricolor jersey too.



I wouldn't be shocked if they do have a harder line on that. I know the US federation has a hard line on how the US flag/colors are done on the jersey.
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05 Jul 2018 08:20

It is often said that some national federations have a strict line on display of colours on champions' jerseys, and most of us prefer the jerseys that reflect that. But what leverage do they have? If it is a matter of record that B Ikerider of Team Dodgy won the Foolandian national road race title, then the UCI and race organisers permit him (require him?) to wear national colours for the next 12 months.

So Team Dodgy's kit manufacturer, Stretchanrip, will bring their artistry and creative genius to the production of something that incorporates the historical pink, purple and puce of the Foolish national flag into its outfit, but their main responsibility is to the sponsor, who pay handsomely to have the name and internationally recognised yellow and orange livery of their Dodgy brand paraded in the peloton and on podiums in obscure regional towns across the continent.

So what if the Foolish Cycling Federation don't like what Stretchanrip come up with? What are they going to do about it? They have no contract with Stretchanrip, and can't stop Foolish fans from buying their product. Are they likely to refuse Ikerider the chance to be in their World Championship team or bar him from future nat champs? Can they ban Dodgy from races in their country? Can they tell UCI/race organisers not to allow Ikerider to wear that kit in their events?

Other than the national federation expressing disappointment, do they have any teeth at all in insisting on how national colours are integrated into team kit? What is this distinction between strong and weak federations in this regard?
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05 Jul 2018 08:35

Hmm... maybe I need to rephrase my earlier statement a bit; National Championship jerseys are flags, or easily recognised national symbols
No need to spend a lot of energy designing a jersey, because ideally the jersey should follow the same pattern every year. The most important thing being that the viewer can easily spot - and identify - national champions from aerial shots.
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Re:

05 Jul 2018 08:51

Armchair cyclist wrote:It is often said that some national federations have a strict line on display of colours on champions' jerseys, and most of us prefer the jerseys that reflect that. But what leverage do they have? If it is a matter of record that B Ikerider of Team Dodgy won the Foolandian national road race title, then the UCI and race organisers permit him (require him?) to wear national colours for the next 12 months.

So Team Dodgy's kit manufacturer, Stretchanrip, will bring their artistry and creative genius to the production of something that incorporates the historical pink, purple and puce of the Foolish national flag into its outfit, but their main responsibility is to the sponsor, who pay handsomely to have the name and internationally recognised yellow and orange livery of their Dodgy brand paraded in the peloton and on podiums in obscure regional towns across the continent.

So what if the Foolish Cycling Federation don't like what Stretchanrip come up with? What are they going to do about it? They have no contract with Stretchanrip, and can't stop Foolish fans from buying their product. Are they likely to refuse Ikerider the chance to be in their World Championship team or bar him from future nat champs? Can they ban Dodgy from races in their country? Can they tell UCI/race organisers not to allow Ikerider to wear that kit in their events?

Other than the national federation expressing disappointment, do they have any teeth at all in insisting on how national colours are integrated into team kit? What is this distinction between strong and weak federations in this regard?


National bodies have regulations regarding the design of their National Championship jersey. The British Cycling regulations are here on page 74:

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/rulebook/2018/C7_-_Technical_Regulations_For_General_Road_Track_and_Roller_Racing.pdf

The UCI mandate what spaces need to be reserved for sponsors logos, page 69 here:

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/News/18/33/27/2017-UCI-Jerseys-guideline_Neutral.pdf

As far as I know, if your jersey doesn't match that it won't be approved and you can't wear it, A check of past British Champion Jerseys would confirm if this is true. You would have to check the regulations of say, the Spanish Cycling Federation, to see if they are as strict as the British regulations. I don't read Spanish so I'm afraid I can't.


Greg Daniels had to wear the generic US jersey he was presented with, with a sponsor decal on it as his teams initial design did not meet US cycling's specifications. Brad Huff too. This is a good example as they used to allow more elaborate designs but decided to rein it in. Good report here:

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/06/stars-and-stripes-saga-the-backstory-behind-greg-daniels-missing-national-champions-jersey/

So I think in general the assumption is correct. National bodies can have requirements and enforce the design of their championship jerseys and some do. Whether the Belgian federation have to or it's just become so standard that no-one would dare vary it I don't know.
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Re: Best and Worst National Champs jerseys

05 Jul 2018 09:07

GuyIncognito wrote:


Nice chicken


It wasn't funny. And it is not chicken.
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05 Jul 2018 09:28

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Re: Re:

05 Jul 2018 10:13

King Boonen wrote:
Armchair cyclist wrote:It is often said that some national federations have a strict line on display of colours on champions' jerseys, and most of us prefer the jerseys that reflect that. But what leverage do they have? If it is a matter of record that B Ikerider of Team Dodgy won the Foolandian national road race title, then the UCI and race organisers permit him (require him?) to wear national colours for the next 12 months.

So Team Dodgy's kit manufacturer, Stretchanrip, will bring their artistry and creative genius to the production of something that incorporates the historical pink, purple and puce of the Foolish national flag into its outfit, but their main responsibility is to the sponsor, who pay handsomely to have the name and internationally recognised yellow and orange livery of their Dodgy brand paraded in the peloton and on podiums in obscure regional towns across the continent.

So what if the Foolish Cycling Federation don't like what Stretchanrip come up with? What are they going to do about it? They have no contract with Stretchanrip, and can't stop Foolish fans from buying their product. Are they likely to refuse Ikerider the chance to be in their World Championship team or bar him from future nat champs? Can they ban Dodgy from races in their country? Can they tell UCI/race organisers not to allow Ikerider to wear that kit in their events?

Other than the national federation expressing disappointment, do they have any teeth at all in insisting on how national colours are integrated into team kit? What is this distinction between strong and weak federations in this regard?


National bodies have regulations regarding the design of their National Championship jersey. The British Cycling regulations are here on page 74:

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/rulebook/2018/C7_-_Technical_Regulations_For_General_Road_Track_and_Roller_Racing.pdf

The UCI mandate what spaces need to be reserved for sponsors logos, page 69 here:

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/News/18/33/27/2017-UCI-Jerseys-guideline_Neutral.pdf

As far as I know, if your jersey doesn't match that it won't be approved and you can't wear it, A check of past British Champion Jerseys would confirm if this is true. You would have to check the regulations of say, the Spanish Cycling Federation, to see if they are as strict as the British regulations. I don't read Spanish so I'm afraid I can't.


Greg Daniels had to wear the generic US jersey he was presented with, with a sponsor decal on it as his teams initial design did not meet US cycling's specifications. Brad Huff too. This is a good example as they used to allow more elaborate designs but decided to rein it in. Good report here:

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/06/stars-and-stripes-saga-the-backstory-behind-greg-daniels-missing-national-champions-jersey/

So I think in general the assumption is correct. National bodies can have requirements and enforce the design of their championship jerseys and some do. Whether the Belgian federation have to or it's just become so standard that no-one would dare vary it I don't know.


Thanks for the references. But my point is, what if the team don't want the jersey to look as the national federation requires? If the nat fed says Ikerider can't wear Stretchanrip's design, what can they do to enforce it? He is still champion, and is still employed by Dodgy. Would they really withdraw his licence to race? The Foolish federation don't have international copyright over the use of those colours, so they can't practically dictate how they are displayed. And as the Foolish fed don't have any jurisdiction beyond their borders (and I'm not sure that they have that degree of authority in races on their own patch), what difference does it make if they disapprove?

Of course their is good publicity for the team in making a good kit, and there is usually respect for tradition, but the fact that teams tend to minimise champions' national insignia on jersey shows that there is tension between desire to fly the flag and sponsors' requirements.

What happens if that is directly challenged? I can't imagine federations will ever compensate sponsors for the loss of the right to promote their brand, they are reliant on the goodwill and consent of the teams in this regard, and, I suspect, quite toothless if such goodwill were absent.
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Re:

05 Jul 2018 10:22

He's taken and old jersey from those they used at the Worlds in the '80s
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Re: Re:

05 Jul 2018 10:47

Armchair cyclist wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
Armchair cyclist wrote:It is often said that some national federations have a strict line on display of colours on champions' jerseys, and most of us prefer the jerseys that reflect that. But what leverage do they have? If it is a matter of record that B Ikerider of Team Dodgy won the Foolandian national road race title, then the UCI and race organisers permit him (require him?) to wear national colours for the next 12 months.

So Team Dodgy's kit manufacturer, Stretchanrip, will bring their artistry and creative genius to the production of something that incorporates the historical pink, purple and puce of the Foolish national flag into its outfit, but their main responsibility is to the sponsor, who pay handsomely to have the name and internationally recognised yellow and orange livery of their Dodgy brand paraded in the peloton and on podiums in obscure regional towns across the continent.

So what if the Foolish Cycling Federation don't like what Stretchanrip come up with? What are they going to do about it? They have no contract with Stretchanrip, and can't stop Foolish fans from buying their product. Are they likely to refuse Ikerider the chance to be in their World Championship team or bar him from future nat champs? Can they ban Dodgy from races in their country? Can they tell UCI/race organisers not to allow Ikerider to wear that kit in their events?

Other than the national federation expressing disappointment, do they have any teeth at all in insisting on how national colours are integrated into team kit? What is this distinction between strong and weak federations in this regard?


National bodies have regulations regarding the design of their National Championship jersey. The British Cycling regulations are here on page 74:

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/rulebook/2018/C7_-_Technical_Regulations_For_General_Road_Track_and_Roller_Racing.pdf

The UCI mandate what spaces need to be reserved for sponsors logos, page 69 here:

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/News/18/33/27/2017-UCI-Jerseys-guideline_Neutral.pdf

As far as I know, if your jersey doesn't match that it won't be approved and you can't wear it, A check of past British Champion Jerseys would confirm if this is true. You would have to check the regulations of say, the Spanish Cycling Federation, to see if they are as strict as the British regulations. I don't read Spanish so I'm afraid I can't.


Greg Daniels had to wear the generic US jersey he was presented with, with a sponsor decal on it as his teams initial design did not meet US cycling's specifications. Brad Huff too. This is a good example as they used to allow more elaborate designs but decided to rein it in. Good report here:

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/06/stars-and-stripes-saga-the-backstory-behind-greg-daniels-missing-national-champions-jersey/

So I think in general the assumption is correct. National bodies can have requirements and enforce the design of their championship jerseys and some do. Whether the Belgian federation have to or it's just become so standard that no-one would dare vary it I don't know.


Thanks for the references. But my point is, what if the team don't want the jersey to look as the national federation requires? If the nat fed says Ikerider can't wear Stretchanrip's design, what can they do to enforce it? He is still champion, and is still employed by Dodgy. Would they really withdraw his licence to race? The Foolish federation don't have international copyright over the use of those colours, so they can't practically dictate how they are displayed. And as the Foolish fed don't have any jurisdiction beyond their borders (and I'm not sure that they have that degree of authority in races on their own patch), what difference does it make if they disapprove?

Of course their is good publicity for the team in making a good kit, and there is usually respect for tradition, but the fact that teams tend to minimise champions' national insignia on jersey shows that there is tension between desire to fly the flag and sponsors' requirements.

What happens if that is directly challenged? I can't imagine federations will ever compensate sponsors for the loss of the right to promote their brand, they are reliant on the goodwill and consent of the teams in this regard, and, I suspect, quite toothless if such goodwill were absent.


The regulations are there if you look. The rider is required to wear the jersey and it is required to meet the national governing body guidelines. This is in the UCI regulations and, likely, every national bodies regulations. So yes, if it really comes to it, the rider will not be allowed to race.

I have no idea if the case you posit has ever come up and whether a rider was barred from racing, but the Greg Daniels case shows that federations will and have enforced it.

UCI regulations:

National champion's jersey
National road, track, cyclo-cross, mountain bike, BMX, trials and indoor cycling champions must wear their jersey in all events in the discipline, speciality and category in which they won their title and no other event.
The national champion in the individual time trial is not authorised to wear the distinctive national champion’s jersey during team time trial events.
In a six-day event, only madison national champions must wear the jersey even if they are not paired together.
(N) When he no longer holds the title of national champion, a rider can wear piping in national colours on the collar and cuffs of his jersey and shorts as per the technical specifications determined by the national federation. However, he can wear such a jersey only in events of the discipline, speciality and category in which he won the title and in no other event.
The national champion jersey must be worn whenever a rider is engaged in activities on the track, awards ceremonies, press conferences, television interviews, autograph sessions and other occasions which require a good presentation.
(text modified on 1.01.99; 1.01.04; 1.01.05; 1.01.06; 1.10.10; 1.01.13; 1.01.15; 1.07.17).
The specificities concerning the design of the national champion jersey are described in the brochure available on the UCI website. These specificities are applicable for all the disciplines.
Before production, the national champion jersey design (colours, flag, drawing) reproduced by the titled rider must be approved by the concerned national federation and must respect the latter’s dispositions.
Each national federation must have its national champion jersey design registered by the UCI, for each discipline, at least 21 days before the national championships of the discipline in question.
The wearer of a national champion's jersey shall be entitled to match the colour of his shorts to that of the jersey.
However, under the prior approval of the concerned National Federation and instead of wearing a traditional national champions jersey in the sense of the provision 1.3.068, the national champions in MTB DHI, MTB 4X and BMX have the possibility to wear a distinct national champion jersey with the left arm sleeve representing the flag of the rider’s country. No advertising is authorized on that left arm sleeve of the national champion jersey. Apart from the left arm sleeve and without prejudice to the provisions 1.3.026 to 1.3.044, the remaining spaces (e.g. front, back and right arm sleeve) are let at the disposal of the riders for their usual sponsors. The specificities are described in the brochure available on the UCI website.
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05 Jul 2018 12:14

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Re:

05 Jul 2018 13:49



Oh brother.
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