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Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Re: Re:

13 Sep 2017 18:53

oldcrank wrote:
Pricey_sky wrote:
Amazinmets87 wrote:
TMP402 wrote:
Amazinmets87 wrote:Congrats to Froome.

I have a question: Which rider has the most GT victories from age 33 onwards?


Joop Zoetemelk and Tony Rominger both had two, off the top of my head.

So, based off history we can say Froome's window is closing rapidly


I'd say looking at this years performances maybe 2 more years, so go all out for Tour number 5 next year and then I'd be surprised if he doesn't give the Giro a shot in 2019.


Well, would you rather win all three GTs or win an (officially) record-breaking number of Tours? If it were me I'd go for Tour-Vuelta in 2018 (but Vuelta as an afterthought, not like this season was seemingly planned), Tour 2019, and THEN Giro. Even if quite past his best he could win the Giro if the field and route are favourable to him

I totally agree with your proposed schedule. Maybe ride Vuelta 2018 as a SKY super-dom/plan B.
Then skipping Vuelta in 2019 to target TTT and maybe ITT at Yorkshire Worlds. Finally Giro and
Olympic ITT in 2020. But keep the Tour as the primary focus in both 2018 and 2019.


I think we need to take it year by year and see how he manages his mid 30's.
For the moment he should focus on next years Tour.
After that, we will see.
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13 Sep 2017 19:46

In my opinion of Quintana and Richie turn up next year in full form especially Quintana it's the tour he won't win but he will still most likely pull the 2018 Vuelta
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Re:

13 Sep 2017 21:35

Scarponi wrote:In my opinion of Quintana and Richie turn up next year in full form especially Quintana it's the tour he won't win but he will still most likely pull the 2018 Vuelta

lol Nairo has had routes made perfect for him and still couldn't beat an ill Froome....sky know how to deal with Porte.

If froome targets only the tour next year then no one will touch him
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13 Sep 2017 21:48

Yep, Porte can't ride away from the Sky train and Froome, he is still very much riding like he is part of it. Just no way, maybe he can gain a few seconds here and there, but he won't ever gain more unless Froome really cracks. He certainly isn't the rider for a long range. And Froome is a better bike rider pretty much everywhere else and has a much better team.
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13 Sep 2017 22:20

If Tommy D can get a half decent team the TdF could be interesting.
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Re:

13 Sep 2017 22:40

Robert5091 wrote:If Tommy D can get a half decent team the TdF could be interesting.

It needs a parcours with a decent amount of ITT in it give him enough to work with (and perhaps Porte too). I imagine ASO will pander to Bardet again though.
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Re:

13 Sep 2017 23:41

Valv.Piti wrote:Yep, Porte can't ride away from the Sky train and Froome, he is still very much riding like he is part of it. Just no way, maybe he can gain a few seconds here and there, but he won't ever gain more unless Froome really cracks. He certainly isn't the rider for a long range. And Froome is a better bike rider pretty much everywhere else and has a much better team.


The Sky train won't matter in the mountains if Froome climbs like he did in this year's Tour. How many times did we see Landa riding on the front with a bored look on his face while Froome was trying to keep up ? You still have to have the legs even with a good team and Froome didn't seem to be as good as usual in the mountains this year. The fact that Bardet and Uran were so close going into the TT and in Bardet's case actually attacked more in the mountains than Froome did was interesting. Bardet knew he was going to get nuked in the TT so he to attack but to my eyes he did have Froome in trouble and more uncomfortable than he was in previous Tours. Throw Porte and Quintana into that situation and it would have been interesting. Depending on the TTs next year I still think they are the two riders that have any sort of chance of putting reasonable time into Froome in the mountains. Landa probably won't ride the Tour with Movistar, not sure about that. Aru is another one on a good day in the mountains can stretch things and with his injuries this year and interrupted preparation I think he will be better next year.

Maybe the double was more on Froome's mind than people thought. I actually thought he looked better in the Vuelta than the Tour at least in the mountains and when you look at how ordinary he was in the Dauphine maybe the prep this year was to peak later and it looked like it with his Tour ride. So if he does well in the Dauphine next year everything would indicate that he is peaking earlier which is the usual Froome prep for the Tour and of course he wants that fifth win so next year may see a better Froome in the Tour mountain stages. Maybe the second place in last year's Vuelta made him rethink his prep for the double.
movingtarget
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Re: Re:

14 Sep 2017 11:20

movingtarget wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:Yep, Porte can't ride away from the Sky train and Froome, he is still very much riding like he is part of it. Just no way, maybe he can gain a few seconds here and there, but he won't ever gain more unless Froome really cracks. He certainly isn't the rider for a long range. And Froome is a better bike rider pretty much everywhere else and has a much better team.


The Sky train won't matter in the mountains if Froome climbs like he did in this year's Tour. How many times did we see Landa riding on the front with a bored look on his face while Froome was trying to keep up ? You still have to have the legs even with a good team and Froome didn't seem to be as good as usual in the mountains this year. The fact that Bardet and Uran were so close going into the TT and in Bardet's case actually attacked more in the mountains than Froome did was interesting. Bardet knew he was going to get nuked in the TT so he to attack but to my eyes he did have Froome in trouble and more uncomfortable than he was in previous Tours. Throw Porte and Quintana into that situation and it would have been interesting. Depending on the TTs next year I still think they are the two riders that have any sort of chance of putting reasonable time into Froome in the mountains. Landa probably won't ride the Tour with Movistar, not sure about that. Aru is another one on a good day in the mountains can stretch things and with his injuries this year and interrupted preparation I think he will be better next year.

Maybe the double was more on Froome's mind than people thought. I actually thought he looked better in the Vuelta than the Tour at least in the mountains and when you look at how ordinary he was in the Dauphine maybe the prep this year was to peak later and it looked like it with his Tour ride. So if he does well in the Dauphine next year everything would indicate that he is peaking earlier which is the usual Froome prep for the Tour and of course he wants that fifth win so next year may see a better Froome in the Tour mountain stages. Maybe the second place in last year's Vuelta made him rethink his prep for the double.


I think he was at the same level in both races. It was Bardet who was worse at the Vuelta.. he is french and Tour is the most important objetive.

It is normal Froome is not supergood in the mountains, he is not a pure climber, he was just super after some days in the flat in the past, and in mountains stages with flat sections.

What is not normal is a GT with just a few km of ITT. He has a big merit to win a Tour for climbers.
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Re: Re:

14 Sep 2017 13:14

Taxus4a wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:Yep, Porte can't ride away from the Sky train and Froome, he is still very much riding like he is part of it. Just no way, maybe he can gain a few seconds here and there, but he won't ever gain more unless Froome really cracks. He certainly isn't the rider for a long range. And Froome is a better bike rider pretty much everywhere else and has a much better team.


The Sky train won't matter in the mountains if Froome climbs like he did in this year's Tour. How many times did we see Landa riding on the front with a bored look on his face while Froome was trying to keep up ? You still have to have the legs even with a good team and Froome didn't seem to be as good as usual in the mountains this year. The fact that Bardet and Uran were so close going into the TT and in Bardet's case actually attacked more in the mountains than Froome did was interesting. Bardet knew he was going to get nuked in the TT so he to attack but to my eyes he did have Froome in trouble and more uncomfortable than he was in previous Tours. Throw Porte and Quintana into that situation and it would have been interesting. Depending on the TTs next year I still think they are the two riders that have any sort of chance of putting reasonable time into Froome in the mountains. Landa probably won't ride the Tour with Movistar, not sure about that. Aru is another one on a good day in the mountains can stretch things and with his injuries this year and interrupted preparation I think he will be better next year.

Maybe the double was more on Froome's mind than people thought. I actually thought he looked better in the Vuelta than the Tour at least in the mountains and when you look at how ordinary he was in the Dauphine maybe the prep this year was to peak later and it looked like it with his Tour ride. So if he does well in the Dauphine next year everything would indicate that he is peaking earlier which is the usual Froome prep for the Tour and of course he wants that fifth win so next year may see a better Froome in the Tour mountain stages. Maybe the second place in last year's Vuelta made him rethink his prep for the double.


I think he was at the same level in both races. It was Bardet who was worse at the Vuelta.. he is french and Tour is the most important objetive.

It is normal Froome is not supergood in the mountains, he is not a pure climber, he was just super after some days in the flat in the past, and in mountains stages with flat sections.

What is not normal is a GT with just a few km of ITT. He has a big merit to win a Tour for climbers.

Last year, I didn't see quintana dropping froome in aubisque so the best climber in the world (in your opinion) can't even drop a non pure climber like froome.
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14 Sep 2017 13:19

it's always fun to read forum members juggling with the definition of 'best pure climber'. surely nairo it is just for the reason, froome and nibali are all-rounders rather than pure climbers.
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Re: Re:

14 Sep 2017 15:57

portugal11 wrote:
Taxus4a wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:Yep, Porte can't ride away from the Sky train and Froome, he is still very much riding like he is part of it. Just no way, maybe he can gain a few seconds here and there, but he won't ever gain more unless Froome really cracks. He certainly isn't the rider for a long range. And Froome is a better bike rider pretty much everywhere else and has a much better team.


The Sky train won't matter in the mountains if Froome climbs like he did in this year's Tour. How many times did we see Landa riding on the front with a bored look on his face while Froome was trying to keep up ? You still have to have the legs even with a good team and Froome didn't seem to be as good as usual in the mountains this year. The fact that Bardet and Uran were so close going into the TT and in Bardet's case actually attacked more in the mountains than Froome did was interesting. Bardet knew he was going to get nuked in the TT so he to attack but to my eyes he did have Froome in trouble and more uncomfortable than he was in previous Tours. Throw Porte and Quintana into that situation and it would have been interesting. Depending on the TTs next year I still think they are the two riders that have any sort of chance of putting reasonable time into Froome in the mountains. Landa probably won't ride the Tour with Movistar, not sure about that. Aru is another one on a good day in the mountains can stretch things and with his injuries this year and interrupted preparation I think he will be better next year.

Maybe the double was more on Froome's mind than people thought. I actually thought he looked better in the Vuelta than the Tour at least in the mountains and when you look at how ordinary he was in the Dauphine maybe the prep this year was to peak later and it looked like it with his Tour ride. So if he does well in the Dauphine next year everything would indicate that he is peaking earlier which is the usual Froome prep for the Tour and of course he wants that fifth win so next year may see a better Froome in the Tour mountain stages. Maybe the second place in last year's Vuelta made him rethink his prep for the double.


I think he was at the same level in both races. It was Bardet who was worse at the Vuelta.. he is french and Tour is the most important objetive.

It is normal Froome is not supergood in the mountains, he is not a pure climber, he was just super after some days in the flat in the past, and in mountains stages with flat sections.

What is not normal is a GT with just a few km of ITT. He has a big merit to win a Tour for climbers.

Last year, I didn't see quintana dropping froome in aubisque so the best climber in the world (in your opinion) can't even drop a non pure climber like froome.


Menchov or Evans were not pure climbers neither was Eddy Merckx and many other riders that won GTs. Pure climbers often have other weaknesses like the TT. I agree that Quintana won't beat Froome based on his last two Tour performances but it's also obvious that the Froome winning now is not the Froome winning in 2015 or before. Froome doesn't even attack like he used to and relies more on his team but he is still managing to win but if someone is going to beat him they will have to be in their best form or close to it. Something that Nibali or Quintana did not manage this year. Even if Froome is less impressive in the mountains from a power point of view, no one manages a performance better over three weeks than Froome aided of course by the best team in road cycling at the moment. I still think Froome is beatable next year but it will take a great performance and maybe some good fortune to do it unless Froome himself has a form slip which is unlikely but he is approaching the years now where age will start to affect him as well which is why GTs are rarely won by riders over 32 or 33. Anyone who has already won four Tours will obviously be favorite to win again.
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Re: Re:

14 Sep 2017 16:03

movingtarget wrote:Menchov or Evans were not pure climbers neither was Eddy Merckx and many other riders that won GTs.
Were there any pure climbers back then?
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Re:

14 Sep 2017 16:05

dacooley wrote:it's always fun to read forum members juggling with the definition of 'best pure climber'. surely nairo it is just for the reason, froome and nibali are all-rounders rather than pure climbers.

It's the skill we're looking at, not an inclusion criteria
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re: Re:

14 Sep 2017 16:21

AQETUYIOI wrote:
movingtarget wrote:Menchov or Evans were not pure climbers neither was Eddy Merckx and many other riders that won GTs.
Were there any pure climbers back then?

Fuente?
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14 Sep 2017 17:03

Bahamontes?
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Re: Re:

14 Sep 2017 17:09

movingtarget wrote:
portugal11 wrote:
Taxus4a wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:Yep, Porte can't ride away from the Sky train and Froome, he is still very much riding like he is part of it. Just no way, maybe he can gain a few seconds here and there, but he won't ever gain more unless Froome really cracks. He certainly isn't the rider for a long range. And Froome is a better bike rider pretty much everywhere else and has a much better team.


The Sky train won't matter in the mountains if Froome climbs like he did in this year's Tour. How many times did we see Landa riding on the front with a bored look on his face while Froome was trying to keep up ? You still have to have the legs even with a good team and Froome didn't seem to be as good as usual in the mountains this year. The fact that Bardet and Uran were so close going into the TT and in Bardet's case actually attacked more in the mountains than Froome did was interesting. Bardet knew he was going to get nuked in the TT so he to attack but to my eyes he did have Froome in trouble and more uncomfortable than he was in previous Tours. Throw Porte and Quintana into that situation and it would have been interesting. Depending on the TTs next year I still think they are the two riders that have any sort of chance of putting reasonable time into Froome in the mountains. Landa probably won't ride the Tour with Movistar, not sure about that. Aru is another one on a good day in the mountains can stretch things and with his injuries this year and interrupted preparation I think he will be better next year.

Maybe the double was more on Froome's mind than people thought. I actually thought he looked better in the Vuelta than the Tour at least in the mountains and when you look at how ordinary he was in the Dauphine maybe the prep this year was to peak later and it looked like it with his Tour ride. So if he does well in the Dauphine next year everything would indicate that he is peaking earlier which is the usual Froome prep for the Tour and of course he wants that fifth win so next year may see a better Froome in the Tour mountain stages. Maybe the second place in last year's Vuelta made him rethink his prep for the double.


I think he was at the same level in both races. It was Bardet who was worse at the Vuelta.. he is french and Tour is the most important objetive.

It is normal Froome is not supergood in the mountains, he is not a pure climber, he was just super after some days in the flat in the past, and in mountains stages with flat sections.

What is not normal is a GT with just a few km of ITT. He has a big merit to win a Tour for climbers.

Last year, I didn't see quintana dropping froome in aubisque so the best climber in the world (in your opinion) can't even drop a non pure climber like froome.


Menchov or Evans were not pure climbers neither was Eddy Merckx and many other riders that won GTs. Pure climbers often have other weaknesses like the TT. I agree that Quintana won't beat Froome based on his last two Tour performances but it's also obvious that the Froome winning now is not the Froome winning in 2015 or before. Froome doesn't even attack like he used to and relies more on his team but he is still managing to win but if someone is going to beat him they will have to be in their best form or close to it. Something that Nibali or Quintana did not manage this year. Even if Froome is less impressive in the mountains from a power point of view, no one manages a performance better over three weeks than Froome aided of course by the best team in road cycling at the moment. I still think Froome is beatable next year but it will take a great performance and maybe some good fortune to do it unless Froome himself has a form slip which is unlikely but he is approaching the years now where age will start to affect him as well which is why GTs are rarely won by riders over 32 or 33. Anyone who has already won four Tours will obviously be favorite to win again.

You don't the point. Taxus is always arguing how froome is not a pure climber and how he struggles against pure climbers (quintana, landa, chaves, uran, everyone who is colombian...) in the high mountains. And that is just BS, froome is better climber than landa, uran, chaves and he is as good as quintana. Contador isn't a pure climber but he always was a better climber than all of pure climbers (bar pantani) who were cyclists
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Re: Re:

14 Sep 2017 20:00

portugal11 wrote:
Taxus4a wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:Yep, Porte can't ride away from the Sky train and Froome, he is still very much riding like he is part of it. Just no way, maybe he can gain a few seconds here and there, but he won't ever gain more unless Froome really cracks. He certainly isn't the rider for a long range. And Froome is a better bike rider pretty much everywhere else and has a much better team.


The Sky train won't matter in the mountains if Froome climbs like he did in this year's Tour. How many times did we see Landa riding on the front with a bored look on his face while Froome was trying to keep up ? You still have to have the legs even with a good team and Froome didn't seem to be as good as usual in the mountains this year. The fact that Bardet and Uran were so close going into the TT and in Bardet's case actually attacked more in the mountains than Froome did was interesting. Bardet knew he was going to get nuked in the TT so he to attack but to my eyes he did have Froome in trouble and more uncomfortable than he was in previous Tours. Throw Porte and Quintana into that situation and it would have been interesting. Depending on the TTs next year I still think they are the two riders that have any sort of chance of putting reasonable time into Froome in the mountains. Landa probably won't ride the Tour with Movistar, not sure about that. Aru is another one on a good day in the mountains can stretch things and with his injuries this year and interrupted preparation I think he will be better next year.

Maybe the double was more on Froome's mind than people thought. I actually thought he looked better in the Vuelta than the Tour at least in the mountains and when you look at how ordinary he was in the Dauphine maybe the prep this year was to peak later and it looked like it with his Tour ride. So if he does well in the Dauphine next year everything would indicate that he is peaking earlier which is the usual Froome prep for the Tour and of course he wants that fifth win so next year may see a better Froome in the Tour mountain stages. Maybe the second place in last year's Vuelta made him rethink his prep for the double.


I think he was at the same level in both races. It was Bardet who was worse at the Vuelta.. he is french and Tour is the most important objetive.

It is normal Froome is not supergood in the mountains, he is not a pure climber, he was just super after some days in the flat in the past, and in mountains stages with flat sections.

What is not normal is a GT with just a few km of ITT. He has a big merit to win a Tour for climbers.

Last year, I didn't see quintana dropping froome in aubisque so the best climber in the world (in your opinion) can't even drop a non pure climber like froome.


That is a question of strength, not of abilities.
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Re: Re:

14 Sep 2017 20:13

Froome IS a CLIMBER SPECIALIST, with TT abilities. Who dont know this? lol
Monte
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14 Sep 2017 20:28

And what is a pure climber? A rider who can climb and who can't TT? If that's the case then Froome is not a pure climber, and Contador also. But if you ask me Alberto Contador Velasco is the purest climber of them all in the last 20 years!
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Re:

14 Sep 2017 20:34

Blanco wrote:And what is a pure climber? A rider who can climb and who can't TT? If that's the case then Froome is not a pure climber, and Contador also. But if you ask me Alberto Contador Velasco is the purest climber of them all in the last 20 years!


Are u crazy?

Pure CLimbers are like Pierre Rolland, Quintana, Rasmussen, Virenque, Soler, Chavez, Sastre (and so on) and my fav Chiappucchi. Contador can drag a small group of riders in head wind, none of the above can..
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