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Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Re: Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

15 May 2018 05:44

Salvarani wrote:Can somebody explain to me why riders and other people keep saying that Froome will become strong all of a sudden in the third week? Like he is not at his best right now but he will become good in the third week etc. Why?


For one thing he's had two crashes, which he might be recovering from - particularly the first one, which seemed fairly serious. Secondly, if he's making a serious attempt at the double then it would make sense that he's had a slower build-up in the early season races and needs to find his form. Vuelta '14 could be an example of the sort of resurgence that could be possible.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 06:38

Koronin wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.


In the modern era I don't think it's possible. Even Froome's Tour/Vuelta double was surprising. The Giro/Vuelta is the easiest because of the rest time in between but even so even that one is rare. It's so much easier planning for one GT during the season and even then everything has to go right.
movingtarget
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 08:35

we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?

from yesterdays press conference - Froome: That is not anybody’s business. That is my personal health information.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 08:36

Tim Booth wrote:[quote="[url=http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2257659#p2257659] we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?

from yesterdays press conference - Froome: That is not anybody’s business. That is my personal health information.[/quote]
Such a dumb answer.

Just say you still use it cause you need it. That's the only excuse for using it in the first place and now you're not willing to say that you need it?
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

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Red Rick
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 10:06

Red Rick wrote:
Tim Booth wrote:[quote="[url=http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2257659#p2257659] we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?

from yesterdays press conference - Froome: That is not anybody’s business. That is my personal health information.

Such a dumb answer.

Just say you still use it cause you need it. That's the only excuse for using it in the first place and now you're not willing to say that you need it?[/quote]
I don't know if this was the smartest answer to give, but I guess that whatever he says will lead to speculation at this moment...
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Re:

15 May 2018 14:40

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

Also explains Contador in 2015, who had to go deep at the Giro and it cost him at the TdF.
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Re:

15 May 2018 15:01

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 15:02

Angliru wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

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Red Rick
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 15:26

Tim Booth wrote:
we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?

from yesterdays press conference - Froome: That is not anybody’s business. That is my personal health information.


Someone's getting touchy. Pressure mounting. Let the crumble begin.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 15:28

Red Rick wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.


That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.

What is interesting to me is that it was posted that now that Froome is struggling, that he never intended to actually win the Giro. That he didn't prepare in a fashion that would have him in the form to be successful. That the appearance fee was too tempting to pass up, this very same appearance fee that many Froome supporters claimed is a figment of the imaginations of those that aren't fans of Froome. All of this is rather convenient to explain away what appears at this juncture of the Giro to be a failed effort.

You have conflicting statements from the Sky ds and Froome in regards to the severity of his crash injuries and you even have Froome contradicting himself in one sitting.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 15:38

Angliru wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.


That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.


It hasn't been done for many years for a reason. The racing style has changed, race radios means less surprises. I don't see it being done by anyone currently racing. Most of the GC riders don't even attempt it.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 16:08

movingtarget wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.


That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.


It hasn't been done for many years for a reason. The racing style has changed, race radios means less surprises. I don't see it being done by anyone currently racing. Most of the GC riders don't even attempt it.


Why would they when some of them couldn't even beat Froome when he has a Tour in his legs? Froome is the only one of the current peloton that can do it. I think many are bailing on the possibility that it can be done because of his performance up to now at the Giro, but had he not crashed twice (crashes that I attribute to his inability to handle the pressure he is under from the AAF case), he of course would be in a much better position to for a Giro win. I just think that he chose the worst possible time in his career to pursue the double. Back-to-back grand tours at the end of 2017, followed up by Giro/Tour attempt, combined with the drama and pressure of his case PLUS the fact that he is no longer in his prime. I believe had he not had this case pending against him that he would have had a successful run at the double, especially with Dumoulin having chosen to defend his Giro win.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 16:15

Angliru wrote:
Why would they when some of them couldn't even beat Froome when he has a Tour in his legs? Froome is the only one of the current peloton that can do it. I think many are bailing on the possibility that it can be done because of his performance up to now at the Giro, but had he not crashed twice (crashes that I attribute to his inability to handle the pressure he is under from the AAF case), he of course would be in a much better position to for a Giro win. I just think that he chose the worst possible time in his career to pursue the double. Back-to-back grand tours at the end of 2017, followed up by Giro/Tour attempt, combined with the drama and pressure of his case PLUS the fact that he is no longer in his prime. I believe had he not had this case pending against him that he would have had a successful run at the double, especially with Dumoulin having chosen to defend his Giro win.



Good post. I don't think he is out of this yet, Yates could crack in 3rd week and TD aint looking that good. If he can do a decent Zoncolan he might come right back into it.
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15 May 2018 16:38

Froome is a champion, he won't quit and leave his mark on the Giro. I liked that he made his team work to bury Chaves, winning mentality.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 17:37

Angliru wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.


That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.


It hasn't been done for many years for a reason. The racing style has changed, race radios means less surprises. I don't see it being done by anyone currently racing. Most of the GC riders don't even attempt it.


Why would they when some of them couldn't even beat Froome when he has a Tour in his legs? Froome is the only one of the current peloton that can do it. I think many are bailing on the possibility that it can be done because of his performance up to now at the Giro, but had he not crashed twice (crashes that I attribute to his inability to handle the pressure he is under from the AAF case), he of course would be in a much better position to for a Giro win. I just think that he chose the worst possible time in his career to pursue the double. Back-to-back grand tours at the end of 2017, followed up by Giro/Tour attempt, combined with the drama and pressure of his case PLUS the fact that he is no longer in his prime. I believe had he not had this case pending against him that he would have had a successful run at the double, especially with Dumoulin having chosen to defend his Giro win.[/quote]

Contador after his attempt said it was impossible for him to do, but still thought that it was possible. He just didn't know the right formula basically.

However, I'd say the triple (in one racing season) is impossible.
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15 May 2018 17:48

It wasn't impossible for Contador, but it was in 2015. He could've done it if he had tried it in 2009, or he could've pulled it off in 2011 with better luck.

Contador was pretty much unequaled uphill in his best years, whereas Froome had his equal uphill in the 3rd week of a GT, and Nibali, Quintana and Contador were all really strong in most of these years.

Valverde's shenanigans in 2016 show the requirements for the double more than a single dominant GT. You need to be the kind of rider that can be good easily for long periods of time. Especially for Giro/Tour, where you enter the double with very little racing compared to Tour/Vuelta, which is a thing that's pretty underrated imo.

If Froome could have ever done it is something we'll probably never know. Tour/Vuelta doubles are too different to compare.
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Re: Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

15 May 2018 18:08

Also with Contador (2015), if maybe he had flown completely under the radar and simply slowly built his form up leading up to the Giro, he would have had more in the tank come Tour time. I guess he would call what he did taking it easy but still he was winning stages and finishing top ten in stage races before the Giro. A basic inability to not compete was his downfall in 2015. I guess he would not have been enjoying himself racing any other way.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 18:17

movingtarget wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.


That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.


It hasn't been done for many years for a reason. The racing style has changed, race radios means less surprises. I don't see it being done by anyone currently racing. Most of the GC riders don't even attempt it.


People forget that Pantani could barely pedal in the early stages of the 1998 TDF and had already shopped around 7 or 8 minutes in the first 6 or 7 stages, and then a stage later was down around 5 minutes when the race was neutralised - No neutralisation and no TDF win for Pantani.
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Re:

15 May 2018 18:29

Red Rick wrote:It wasn't impossible for Contador, but it was in 2015. He could've done it if he had tried it in 2009, or he could've pulled it off in 2011 with better luck.

Contador was pretty much unequaled uphill in his best years, whereas Froome had his equal uphill in the 3rd week of a GT, and Nibali, Quintana and Contador were all really strong in most of these years.

Valverde's shenanigans in 2016 show the requirements for the double more than a single dominant GT. You need to be the kind of rider that can be good easily for long periods of time. Especially for Giro/Tour, where you enter the double with very little racing compared to Tour/Vuelta, which is a thing that's pretty underrated imo.

If Froome could have ever done it is something we'll probably never know. Tour/Vuelta doubles are too different to compare.



There aren't exactly many riders in the peloton past or present that have the kind of consistency that Valverde has to begin with. That's more because his peak isn't significantly higher than racing while just in race shape. Where most riders, esp climbers, you can see a definite difference when they are near/at peak vs when they are just just in race shape. Of course Valverde also wanted to race the triple because it was something he'd wanted to try since he was a child and the team let him do it. He also went into that Giro having raced more than most guys do who go into the Giro as GC riders. However, he also didn't race his normal spring schedule as it was cut a bit because of the Giro. He then only raced the National championships between the Giro and Tour and went into the Tour in good shape. Of course he then raced San Sebastian and the Olympics before almost pulling off a top 10 in the Vuelta which one bad day cost him.

Contador may have been able to do the double when he was at his racing peak vs 2015 when he tried it.

Could Froome have done it? Great question, but not one that has an answer.

Is there anyone else is the current peloton that can do. Unlikely, but we don't know for sure yet what some of the youngsters are capable of doing.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 18:47

Angliru wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.


How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.


That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.

What is interesting to me is that it was posted that now that Froome is struggling, that he never intended to actually win the Giro. That he didn't prepare in a fashion that would have him in the form to be successful. That the appearance fee was too tempting to pass up, this very same appearance fee that many Froome supporters claimed is a figment of the imaginations of those that aren't fans of Froome. All of this is rather convenient to explain away what appears at this juncture of the Giro to be a failed effort.

You have conflicting statements from the Sky ds and Froome in regards to the severity of his crash injuries and you even have Froome contradicting himself in one sitting.

I have thought about this as well, but if it was the case Sky hadn't entered this giro with only Foome as their "leader" because currently it looks as if everyone is riding in support of him. If you get the money anyway, why would they purposely ruin their own giro.
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