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The Better Overall Rider: Evans or Contador

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Better overall rider

Cadel Evans
34
22%
Alberto Contador
120
78%
 
Total votes : 154

16 Dec 2012 12:26

cineteq wrote:In my country this is call 'baiting'. :rolleyes:

I see you come from a nation of fishermen.
theyoungest
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16 Dec 2012 12:47

El Pistolero wrote:I say he would've also won the 2009 Tour if he had to face the same competition as in 2012.

He was fourth in 2009:

---> Armstrong wasn't there
---> Andy Schleck wasn't there
---> Alberto Contador wasn't there


====> Wiggins would've won in 2009 had he faced the same field as in 2012. I'm sorry but Wiggins has yet to proof himself against the biggest riders of the sport.


Omg, as high time to belittle Wiggins came, you found even Andy Schleck useful. ;) The fact they were not does not say directly that Wiggins is weaker. It is a very debatable question.

No matter how Fabian is great I think for many people it is obvious that his global peak is already over.

People should put up with the fact that new guys come. It is normal.
User avatar airstream
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16 Dec 2012 14:11

The Hitch wrote:Not just purito he held.off valverde and henao and riders.from.the break looking for.a stage. And put.minutes into.gesink and froome and everyone other than valverde and.purito.pretty.much ( purito still lost 2 minutes)

And what was Evans great show of strength. I know people get off on seeing mud but from a racing pov he followed cunego and vino for 15k and won a sprint. His main opponent for the stage - nibali, crashed with the entire liquigas team ( we are seeing quite a pattern of Evans achievements coming when opponents crashe - tdf, fw, cobbles)

And nibali still only finished about a minute behind and he was shown repeatedly to have to wait for basso.


What are you talking about ? Evans and Vino did the majority of the work at Montalcino. Cunego and Arroyo were losing contact and rejoining or sitting at the back. More wheel sucking allegation about Evans ? At the finish two superior sprinters could not get past him because after leading out a long way from the finish, he was too strong. So Evans only benefits from other's misfortune ? What about his heavy fall in the 2008 Tour or his puncture in the 2009 Vuelta or breaking his elbow in the 2010 Tour and as for the 2011 Tour, he did what other's did not do. He continuously rode near the front with his team on narrow roads and wet conditions during the first week. As O'Grady said, all of the accidents were not caused by the conditons but my stupid riding. That's the fault of the dummies that ride near the back all the time or become isolated from their team. They neither have the brains or the bike handling skills of Evans. Too bad for Liquigas that Cancellara was not around at Montacino, he could have neutralised the stage for them.
movingtarget
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16 Dec 2012 15:25

My post was deleted on the Cancellara/Boonen thread right?
Censorship!

If it's because it was off-topic than I'm wondering why all these posts I was forced to read on Bore de France on threads where they do not belong have never been deleted. Like this one: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=708048&postcount=858 .

Besides, the post I was replying to has of course not been deleted ...

I'm wondering if we are still entitled to criticize Clentador on this forum. Yes I said the guy was a disgrace for the sport, since he's barely racing for 50 days a year (60 if you include criteriums) and comparing him to Evans in that respect is an insult, right? Evans is a full time cycling racer which links him with the cycling greats of the past, not a pretty damn joke like Clentador.

Of course, I quickly had his fangirl on my back, using the very famous pilpul method, which of course does not change the consistency of my reasoning. So it was quite fun.

But then, she was 'glad' my post was deleted because she is a real censor at heart.

Mellow Velo wrote:CAS aside,


CAS matters ...

Mellow Velo wrote:A better one day rider, but that's about it.


Yeah, and that's a mere detail of course. :rolleyes:



Mellow Velo wrote:Hadn't realised the forum has nearly 20 Aussie members.


If you grant me the Aussie citizenship, I'd gladly accept it.
Echoes
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16 Dec 2012 15:30

Evans is a guy who barely won a race before 2011. He only raced so much because he failed so much. None of his old team-mates like him in fact. Not a very inspiring leader. ;)

Besides, Evans has worked with some of the most shady characters in cycling. CAS does not matter. CAS doesn't even think Contador is guilty by the way, so it's funny to see you defending CAS.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
User avatar El Pistolero
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16 Dec 2012 15:36

Mellow Velo wrote:Hadn't realised the forum has nearly 20 Aussie members.


Be fair now, I voted Contador.
User avatar Alphabet
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16 Dec 2012 15:49

using clinic created nicknames to talk about other riders isn't allowed on this forum, and so is being condescending to other posts because they aren't discussing some small race most never heard of.

i have forgiven you a couple of warnings on this in the past but another post with this kind of content will lead to a warning /ban.
User avatar Parrulo
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16 Dec 2012 19:06

airstream wrote:Hehe, believe if Bruyneel and Armstrong had wanted Contador not to win the Tour too much, he wouldn't have taken it. It could have been very ugly and grotesque surely, but after 2007 it wouldn't have surprised too many people. Yes, atmosphere inside of the team was not for him, but nothing more. In terms of a road work, he had an absolute support.


Except for the stage where he had the flat and only Kloden helped him, in contrast to when Liepheimer got a flat at (Arcalis?) and 4 teammates dropped back to pace him.

What about Verbier, where Armstrong and Kloden actively rode against him? Or the flat stage in the crosswinds where Armstrong rode against him at the end?

EDIT: What about the stage to Le Grand Bornand? Andy is up the road with Alberto (and Kloden?), while Armstrong should have been sitting wheels. Instead, he tries to slow pedal Wiggins and allows Frank Schelck to attack the chasing group and eventually bridge.
User avatar UpTheRoad
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16 Dec 2012 19:23

airstream wrote:Trolling is an exclusive patrimony of Contador fanboys who write using principle 'I see what I like and I don't what to know anything I dislike'. I'm just a peaceful outsider..


In all honesty, you never ever miss an opportunity to bring your counterpoint to any discussion that gives Contador the smallest amount of credit. Then you quickly blame the opposing perspective on it being inspired by blind fanboyism and rarely any type of reasonable facts or beliefs. It's your MO. It's well documented for all to see.
User avatar Angliru
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16 Dec 2012 19:35

Where has my post gone again?

I'm fed up right now. I know I'll be banned from complaining but I don't mind, ban me if you can. I'm better in my position than in yours.

Cheers,

Echoes
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16 Dec 2012 19:40

Don't be late Pedro wrote:As for who cares, you could aim that at any thread, so that point is moot. But for the record, given the number of people that voted, clearly quite a few.


But isn't that the crux of the argument. He is the best GT rider but what other races is he the best at? Could be wrong but it seems to me that a lot of people equate best at GTs to best rider.



To be capable of winning multiple grand tours and especially multiple TdF's one has to be a complete rider. No one is questioning Evans versatility but does he excell so much more in any discipline to make up for his huge deficit to Contador in stage racing? You can't argue that Evans doesn't focus on stage races and thus Contador has an unfair advantage in that category but in the most recent incidences where Contador raced for the win or competed seriously in classic/semi-classic events he was 3rd behind Evans at FW, he was instrumental in helping Vino win LBL and he won Milan-Torino.
User avatar Angliru
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16 Dec 2012 19:43

airstream wrote:If he had a puncture and no one had come back to tow tim and as a result he would have lost the Tour — then we might have said the team didn't work for him. So he was entirely protected by Astana sitting at Lance's wheel most of the time.


Yep, Armstrong was intentionally blocking the wind for Contador for most of the race.:rolleyes:
User avatar Angliru
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16 Dec 2012 19:44

airstream wrote:Boonen has nothing to do with that. A rider rides in the pack where he wants. The team preferred Lance as a leader. Have you ever wondered why?


I would love to hear what you believe to be the reason why. This should prove to be infinitely entertaining.
User avatar Angliru
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16 Dec 2012 19:59

Angliru wrote:I would love to hear what you believe to be the reason why. This should prove to be infinitely entertaining.


A puppie dared to swarm athwart hierarchy and the team supported Lance.
User avatar airstream
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16 Dec 2012 20:18

airstream wrote:A puppie dared to swarm athwart hierarchy and the team supported Lance.


Hierarchy??? The current best grand tour rider in the world versus an over-the-hill rider with such a massive ego that he figured a fellow champion would simply stepaside and let him take over the team for his grand and hopefully triumphant return to the world stage? Had the audacity to use an Indurain analogy in his argument to support his delusional ambitions? In end admitted that he was beaten by the better man and knew in his heart-of-hearts that had he been in the same circumstances as Contador that he would've done exactly what Contador, and very likely much more to insure he was able to compete and prove who was the best?

If you were in Contador's shoes would you have given in to Armstrong or would you have made sure that you gave yourself the best opportunity to show the world that you were superior and not stood for being suddenly relegated to also ran, support status?
User avatar Angliru
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16 Dec 2012 20:30

Compare apples to apples: [size="4"]Evans or "Valverde"[/size]
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?
Sun Tzu
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16 Dec 2012 21:19

Angliru wrote:Hierarchy??? The current best grand tour rider in the world versus an over-the-hill rider with such a massive ego that he figured a fellow champion would simply stepaside and let him take over the team for his grand and hopefully triumphant return to the world stage? Had the audacity to use an Indurain analogy in his argument to support his delusional ambitions? In end admitted that he was beaten by the better man and knew in his heart-of-hearts that had he been in the same circumstances as Contador that he would've done exactly what Contador, and very likely much more to insure he was able to compete and prove who was the best?

If you were in Contador's shoes would you have given in to Armstrong or would you have made sure that you gave yourself the best opportunity to show the world that you were superior and not stood for being suddenly relegated to also ran, support status?


You know Contador is not the best example to say about ego, oppose it to another one's and complain about that. He himself has a huge one. If he is dropped, 10 of 10 times he will say ' I could easily follow but it wouldn't be smart tactically'. Exactly insincerity made me dislike him in 2007 already. Insecerity in anything.

He knew what supposedly he would have to overcome in 2008 autumn yet. Did he budge to change anything? NO. Why??? The answer is obvious... :rolleyes: So playing a poor guy who had to undergo bullying and coercion [which you, Contador defenders, do] is a foolishness. He clearly knew through what he should have passed and chose that option.

The team including spanish speaking riders supported Armstrong. For me this says a lot. It means Contador did something wrong.

If I were in Contador shoes, I would have thought many times before doing that Tour. Winning the Tour that way was doomed to bring inevitable revenge from very influential uncles which really came [it is my vision of what happened].

Uff, sorry. Sadly I can not build short consice sentences.
User avatar airstream
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16 Dec 2012 21:22

airstream wrote:You know Contador is not the best example to say about ego, oppose it to another one's and complain about that. He himself has a huge one. If he is dropped, 10 of 10 times he will say ' I could easily follow but it wouldn't be smart tactically'. Exactly insincerity made me dislike him in 2007 already. Insecerity in anything.

He knew what supposedly he will have to overcome in 2008 autumn yet. Did he budge to change anything? NO. Why??? The answer is obvious... :rolleyes:

The team including spanish speaking riders supported Armstrong. For me this says a lot. It means Contador did something wrong.

If I were in Contador shoes, I would have thought many times before doing that Tour. Winning the Tour that way was doomed to bring inevitable revenge from very influential uncles which really came [it is my vision of what happened]


HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA no.
User avatar LaFlorecita
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16 Dec 2012 22:21

Tiago Machado > all
User avatar iZnoGouD
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17 Dec 2012 00:08

airstream wrote:You know Contador is not the best example to say about ego, oppose it to another one's and complain about that. He himself has a huge one. If he is dropped, 10 of 10 times he will say ' I could easily follow but it wouldn't be smart tactically'. Exactly insincerity made me dislike him in 2007 already. Insecerity in anything.

He knew what supposedly he would have to overcome in 2008 autumn yet. Did he budge to change anything? NO. Why??? The answer is obvious... :rolleyes: So playing a poor guy who had to undergo bullying and coercion [which you, Contador defenders, do] is a foolishness. He clearly knew through what he should have passed and chose that option.

The team including spanish speaking riders supported Armstrong. For me this says a lot. It means Contador did something wrong.

If I were in Contador shoes, I would have thought many times before doing that Tour. Winning the Tour that way was doomed to bring inevitable revenge from very influential uncles which really came [it is my vision of what happened].

Uff, sorry. Sadly I can not build short consice sentences.



I would have to disagree and say that it's smarter to not admit that your opponents put you in difficulty and where than to clue them into weaknesses that they can only guess at.

Regarding the implication you made that he should have left the team the moment he knew Armstrong was returning to ride for Bruyneel , if I'm not mistaken, he was under contract and would have had to pay to break it, even if the Armstrong/sponsors were willing to let him go. Do you really think Armstrong would've let him go, knowing it would be easier to control his most dangerous opponent if he's on the team that he has under his boot than to have riding for another squad free to ride his own race?

He chose to stay, possibly confident of his ability to overcome whatever Armstrong threw in his path and/or was capable of bringing to the field of battle. The fact that he remained quiet throughout the Tour and simply went about the business of showing Armstrong a clean set of wheels showed me that he was all about winning the race, choosing to deal with the drama it entailed until after the Tour.
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