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Gigs_98 wrote:It's actually impressive that Kwiatkowskis one day race palmares is only slightly worse than Sagans.

Sagan has won:

-2xWC

-RVV

-2x GW

-E3

-Quebec

-Montreal

Kwiat has won:

-WC

-MSR

-E3

-AGR

-2x SB

So Sagan has one more very big win and all in all 2 more classics. Still considering that 2014 was Kwiats first good season and that he was far from his best in the last two years this is very surprising.

And that's the usual problem when you only look at one aspect (aka winning, although the far most important one). Or do you really think Kwiatkowski is very close to Sagan in terms of one-day racing? I don't. Although I think, he really is one of the finest classics riders in the peloton, and today's victory is a testament to that.

Mr.White wrote:Gigs_98 wrote:It's actually impressive that Kwiatkowskis one day race palmares is only slightly worse than Sagans.

Sagan has won:

-2xWC

-RVV

-2x GW

-E3

-Quebec

-Montreal

Kwiat has won:

-WC

-MSR

-E3

-AGR

-2x SB

So Sagan has one more very big win and all in all 2 more classics. Still considering that 2014 was Kwiats first good season and that he was far from his best in the last two years this is very surprising.

And that's the usual problem when you only look at one aspect (aka winning, although the far most important one). Or do you really think Kwiatkowski is very close to Sagan in terms of one-day racing? I don't. Although I think, he really is one of the finest classics riders in the peloton, and today's victory is a testament to that.

That was the point of the post. The statistic makes it look as if kwiat is about as good as Sagan although the reality is that sagan is clearly at least one class above him. Although kwiatkowski is ofc still a superb classics rider

Gigs_98 wrote:I guess that was autocorrect but I still think we should make this his official nicknameValv.Piti wrote:Kawasaki really has a killer instinct in classics. When he is in a finale, he usually wins it.

I will always echo what DFA said, its very impressive that he has won such a wide variety of classics. Really a born classics rider with big flair for winning

I laughed!

Gigs_98 wrote:Mr.White wrote:Gigs_98 wrote:It's actually impressive that Kwiatkowskis one day race palmares is only slightly worse than Sagans.

Sagan has won:

-2xWC

-RVV

-2x GW

-E3

-Quebec

-Montreal

Kwiat has won:

-WC

-MSR

-E3

-AGR

-2x SB

So Sagan has one more very big win and all in all 2 more classics. Still considering that 2014 was Kwiats first good season and that he was far from his best in the last two years this is very surprising.

And that's the usual problem when you only look at one aspect (aka winning, although the far most important one). Or do you really think Kwiatkowski is very close to Sagan in terms of one-day racing? I don't. Although I think, he really is one of the finest classics riders in the peloton, and today's victory is a testament to that.

That was the point of the post. The statistic makes it look as if kwiat is about as good as Sagan although the reality is that sagan is clearly at least one class above him. Although kwiatkowski is ofc still a superb classics rider

I get your point, but you didn't get mine. With a superficial observation, of only major wins, it looks like they're really close. But, if you scratch a little bit, you'll find that Sagan has 3 Monument podiums and numerous top10 placings in them. Kwiat has one podium and no top10 other than that. Sagan has 5 other WT classics wins + 8 podiums, Kwiat has 3 wins + 1 podium. Sagan has 18 one-day wins (Including Nationals), Kwiat has 8 wins. So, to summarize, just looking at the whole statistics of these two riders, to me it's obvious that Sagan is clearly better one-day rider

Mr.White wrote:Gigs_98 wrote:Mr.White wrote:

Sagan has won:

-2xWC

-RVV

-2x GW

-E3

-Quebec

-Montreal

Kwiat has won:

-WC

-MSR

-E3

-AGR

-2x SB

So Sagan has one more very big win and all in all 2 more classics. Still considering that 2014 was Kwiats first good season and that he was far from his best in the last two years this is very surprising.

And that's the usual problem when you only look at one aspect (aka winning, although the far most important one). Or do you really think Kwiatkowski is very close to Sagan in terms of one-day racing? I don't. Although I think, he really is one of the finest classics riders in the peloton, and today's victory is a testament to that.

That was the point of the post. The statistic makes it look as if kwiat is about as good as Sagan although the reality is that sagan is clearly at least one class above him. Although kwiatkowski is ofc still a superb classics rider

I get your point, but you didn't get mine. With a superficial observation, of only major wins, it looks like they're really close. But, if you scratch a little bit, you'll find that Sagan has 3 Monument podiums and numerous top10 placings in them. Kwiat has one podium and no top10 other than that. Sagan has 5 other WT classics wins + 8 podiums, Kwiat has 3 wins + 1 podium. Sagan has 18 one-day wins (Including Nationals), Kwiat has 8 wins. So, to summarize, just looking at the whole statistics of these two riders, to me it's obvious that Sagan is clearly better one-day rider

Gigs 98 is not disagreeing with you. Everyone knows that Sagan is the stronger one day racer. It is a particularly good reflection on Kwiatkowski's racing brain that a list of their biggest one day wins hides that fact.

- Veteran
**Posts:**5,559**Joined:**18 Aug 2010 13:18

Smart ride by Kwia. Sagan has to learn to hold his nerve a bit more. Some of the great sprinters from previous years would have waited until the bunch was right on top of them, that's the way to force others to the front but I'm still not convinced that Sagan would have had the legs to beat Kwia after the way he worked and rode the hill. Kwia is an underrated sprinter at the end of a hard race.

- Veteran
**Posts:**8,417**Joined:**05 Aug 2009 08:54

IndianCyclist wrote:I think his sprinting is close to Sagan's. However since he does not use it in sprinting for the green jersey or the normal sprints, nobody knows about it.

If Kwiat could win bunch sprints, he'd certainly try. Big difference between a low speed sprint after a hard race and a 65km/h dash at the end of an easy race.

yaco wrote:Kwiatkowski will always struggle in Ronde Vlaanderen and Paris Roubiax as they don't suit his characteristics - Think Lombardia is a stretch against good climbers - Ardennes should suit his characteristics.

Hmm, no. Let him try to peak for Flanders and race it. Don't give me he tried in 2016 as he was worse in the Ardennes anyways. Kwito is definitely a Flanders-rider.

Mr.White wrote:Gigs_98 wrote:

Sagan has won:

-2xWC

-RVV

-2x GW

-E3

-Quebec

-Montreal

Kwiat has won:

-WC

-MSR

-E3

-AGR

-2x SB

So Sagan has one more very big win and all in all 2 more classics. Still considering that 2014 was Kwiats first good season and that he was far from his best in the last two years this is very surprising.

And that's the usual problem when you only look at one aspect (aka winning, although the far most important one). Or do you really think Kwiatkowski is very close to Sagan in terms of one-day racing? I don't. Although I think, he really is one of the finest classics riders in the peloton, and today's victory is a testament to that.

That was the point of the post. The statistic makes it look as if kwiat is about as good as Sagan although the reality is that sagan is clearly at least one class above him. Although kwiatkowski is ofc still a superb classics rider

I get your point, but you didn't get mine. With a superficial observation, of only major wins, it looks like they're really close. But, if you scratch a little bit, you'll find that Sagan has 3 Monument podiums and numerous top10 placings in them. Kwiat has one podium and no top10 other than that. Sagan has 5 other WT classics wins + 8 podiums, Kwiat has 3 wins + 1 podium. Sagan has 18 one-day wins (Including Nationals), Kwiat has 8 wins. So, to summarize, just looking at the whole statistics of these two riders, to me it's obvious that Sagan is clearly better one-day rider

Are you 100% sure that I don't get your point?

yaco wrote:Kwiatkowski will always struggle in Ronde Vlaanderen and Paris Roubiax as they don't suit his characteristics - Think Lombardia is a stretch against good climbers - Ardennes should suit his characteristics.

Yea but sometimes it's just a decent size group at Bergamo Alta after as easier Lombardia. He should be able to contend then.

"Winning is about heart, not just legs. It's got to be in the right place."

Gigs_98 wrote:Mr.White wrote:

Sagan has won:

-2xWC

-RVV

-2x GW

-E3

-Quebec

-Montreal

Kwiat has won:

-WC

-MSR

-E3

-AGR

-2x SB

So Sagan has one more very big win and all in all 2 more classics. Still considering that 2014 was Kwiats first good season and that he was far from his best in the last two years this is very surprising.

And that's the usual problem when you only look at one aspect (aka winning, although the far most important one). Or do you really think Kwiatkowski is very close to Sagan in terms of one-day racing? I don't. Although I think, he really is one of the finest classics riders in the peloton, and today's victory is a testament to that.

That was the point of the post. The statistic makes it look as if kwiat is about as good as Sagan although the reality is that sagan is clearly at least one class above him. Although kwiatkowski is ofc still a superb classics rider

I get your point, but you didn't get mine. With a superficial observation, of only major wins, it looks like they're really close. But, if you scratch a little bit, you'll find that Sagan has 3 Monument podiums and numerous top10 placings in them. Kwiat has one podium and no top10 other than that. Sagan has 5 other WT classics wins + 8 podiums, Kwiat has 3 wins + 1 podium. Sagan has 18 one-day wins (Including Nationals), Kwiat has 8 wins. So, to summarize, just looking at the whole statistics of these two riders, to me it's obvious that Sagan is clearly better one-day rider

Are you 100% sure that I don't get your point?

Well, let's clear things up. To me, ONLY looking at STATISTICS, Sagan is clearly better classics rider than Kwiatkowski. Is that the case with you too?

Smartest rider in the sport! And now gets his first (hopefully of many) monument win. Amazing!

- Member
**Posts:**1,681**Joined:**27 May 2014 19:31

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