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Carlos Betancur discussion thread

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Re:

15 Mar 2017 23:23

jaylew wrote:Normally I skip long, wall-of-text posts but you've summed it up fairly well
Yeah, good synopsis of La Ronca's career so far going into MSR. A little more optimistic about the current state of play than I am, though.
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Re: Carlos Betancur discussion thread

16 Mar 2017 02:16

Scarponi wrote:The real answer as why this rider has this many pages compared to anyone else is that this forum has an compulsive obsession with Columbian and portuguese riders. At least 20 posters will comment on a rider who finishes 25th like it's an achievement because he is Colombian. It takes a Contador or Peter Sagan for these posters to even consider anyone outside of this country. It's sickening in every single thread you can read the word "Colombian" for a rider who has failed for five years while skipping the true protagonists of the race , Australian riders are especially down castes in favour of this top 25 Colombian brigade

No offence, but this isn't even close.

I've never seen a compulsive obsession with anyone or anything other than Greg Lemond (and maybe Team Sky), but to say the entire Columbian and Portuguese contingent is some sort of object of obsession is hyperbole.

Cheers :)
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Re: Carlos Betancur discussion thread

16 Mar 2017 07:41

gospina wrote:"wall of text"


The only thing missing from this summation was his really impressive ride in LBL that got him selected for the Giro.
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Re: Carlos Betancur discussion thread

16 Mar 2017 08:48

gerundium wrote:
gospina wrote:"wall of text"


The only thing missing from this summation was his really impressive ride in LBL that got him selected for the Giro.

That was an amazing ride, he looked stronger than Valverde, who was having a bad day (by his standarts).
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Re: Carlos Betancur discussion thread

16 Mar 2017 08:56

carton wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Scarponi wrote:The real answer as why this rider has this many pages compared to anyone else is that this forum has an compulsive obsession with Columbian and portuguese riders. At least 20 posters will comment on a rider who finishes 25th like it's an achievement because he is Colombian. It takes a Contador or Peter Sagan for these posters to even consider anyone outside of this country. It's sickening in every single thread you can read the word "Colombian" for a rider who has failed for five years while skipping the true protagonists of the race , Australian riders are especially down castes in favour of this top 25 Colombian brigade


The Colombian riders are pretty deserving of the attention that they get but this Portuguese phenomenon that you speak of I can't really say that I've noticed it at all. If we have many Portuguese posters on here it's only natural that they discuss their nation's riders often. Having these posters providing insights that we may not always have at our disposal otherwise is a gift IMO.
I think this is the wrong diagnosis. There are many things at play (among them, that GC riders get more play than classics' men), but one of the main issues is hype. People here love drama, they love to hype up riders as soon as they show any promise and then knock them down as soon as they show the first signs of not being able to live up to said hype. So riders like Joe Dombrowski (6 pages), Ruben Fernandez (3 pages), Egan Bernal (8 pages!) or Wilco Kelderman (35 pages!!!) get a lot more discussion without a single WorldTour win than someone like Darwin Atapuma (1 page) or Gianni Meersman (no thread :( ). Similarly, Richie Porte gets about as much discussion as Alejandro Valverde.

As I've stated, I think Betancur is a perfect storm of sorts. A rider whose strengths and early results matches our dreams, and whose present and weaknesses matches our realities.


Betancur receives more forum discussion than TJVG which kinda puts TJVG's performances in perspective !
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Re: Carlos Betancur discussion thread

16 Mar 2017 12:40

movingtarget wrote:
carton wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Scarponi wrote:The real answer as why this rider has this many pages compared to anyone else is that this forum has an compulsive obsession with Columbian and portuguese riders. At least 20 posters will comment on a rider who finishes 25th like it's an achievement because he is Colombian. It takes a Contador or Peter Sagan for these posters to even consider anyone outside of this country. It's sickening in every single thread you can read the word "Colombian" for a rider who has failed for five years while skipping the true protagonists of the race , Australian riders are especially down castes in favour of this top 25 Colombian brigade


The Colombian riders are pretty deserving of the attention that they get but this Portuguese phenomenon that you speak of I can't really say that I've noticed it at all. If we have many Portuguese posters on here it's only natural that they discuss their nation's riders often. Having these posters providing insights that we may not always have at our disposal otherwise is a gift IMO.
I think this is the wrong diagnosis. There are many things at play (among them, that GC riders get more play than classics' men), but one of the main issues is hype. People here love drama, they love to hype up riders as soon as they show any promise and then knock them down as soon as they show the first signs of not being able to live up to said hype. So riders like Joe Dombrowski (6 pages), Ruben Fernandez (3 pages), Egan Bernal (8 pages!) or Wilco Kelderman (35 pages!!!) get a lot more discussion without a single WorldTour win than someone like Darwin Atapuma (1 page) or Gianni Meersman (no thread :( ). Similarly, Richie Porte gets about as much discussion as Alejandro Valverde.

As I've stated, I think Betancur is a perfect storm of sorts. A rider whose strengths and early results matches our dreams, and whose present and weaknesses matches our realities.


Betancur receives more forum discussion than TJVG which kinda puts TJVG's performances in perspective !

Yes one quits from the front the other quits from the back :D
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Re:

16 Mar 2017 13:30

jaylew wrote:
Scarponi wrote:The real answer as why this rider has this many pages compared to anyone else is that this forum has an compulsive obsession with Columbian and portuguese riders. At least 20 posters will comment on a rider who finishes 25th like it's an achievement because he is Colombian. It takes a Contador or Peter Sagan for these posters to even consider anyone outside of this country. It's sickening in every single thread you can read the word "Colombian" for a rider who has failed for five years while skipping the true protagonists of the race , Australian riders are especially down castes in favour of this top 25 Colombian brigade

Oh, come on. That's a complete exaggeration. You don't hear all that much about Portuguese riders (though maybe a bit more than they deserve given the level of riders) but the talk about Colombian riders has been mostly justified. We went from guys like Duque and Serpa to an age where Colombians are winning and competing to win the biggest races on the calendar. It would be similar if a bunch of Malaysians, Ugandans, or Icelanders suddenly started putting up similar results.

Let's be honest, people are fascinated with Betancur because he burst on the scene in some really big races early in his career and has been a trainwreck since. He somehow performs (at times) despite having a different build from most guys and always has drama surrounding him. It's just human nature that he gets more discussion than his results merit.


Just reading this post and the thought flashed in my head that he is this generation's Jan Ullrich. I know the results are less but the early flash, the weight jokes ...
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16 Mar 2017 13:50

This generation's Dario Pieri would be a more useful comparison.
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Re:

16 Mar 2017 20:55

jaylew wrote:Oh, come on. That's a complete exaggeration. You don't hear all that much about Portuguese riders (though maybe a bit more than they deserve given the level of riders) but the talk about Colombian riders has been mostly justified. We went from guys like Duque and Serpa to an age where Colombians are winning and competing to win the biggest races on the calendar. It would be similar if a bunch of Malaysians, Ugandans, or Icelanders suddenly started putting up similar results.



Mm, dunno. Malaysia or Uganda never had Fabio Parras, Cochises, Lucho Herreras, Santiago Boteros, Soler, etc etc.

Iceland is just a small town :D
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18 Mar 2017 17:47

He did finish the race, 134th. Good that he has some race kilometers in the legs.
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Re:

18 Mar 2017 20:08

Popchu wrote:He did finish the race, 134th. Good that he has some race kilometers in the legs.

Agreed. Very pleased he finished.
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18 Mar 2017 21:58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhKiNrtsslE

Could someone roughly translate this interview? I don't speak Spanish.
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Re:

18 Mar 2017 22:14

Popchu wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhKiNrtsslE

Could someone roughly translate this interview? I don't speak Spanish.

He was looking forward to race MSR.
When it comes to GTs his main goal will be the Vuelta, but apparently he wants to ride the Tour.
Now he'll race a few Belgian classics to built some form, Pais Vasco and then the Ardennes classics (he said that he really likes them and that he's eager to race them).
Ps: I don't speak Spanish, but I was able to understand a bit of it.
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2017 08:18

Mayomaniac wrote:
Popchu wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhKiNrtsslE

Could someone roughly translate this interview? I don't speak Spanish.

He was looking forward to race MSR.
When it comes to GTs his main goal will be the Vuelta, but apparently he wants to ride the Tour.
Now he'll race a few Belgian classics to built some form, Pais Vasco and then the Ardennes classics (he said that he really likes them and that he's eager to race them).
Ps: I don't speak Spanish, but I was able to understand a bit of it.
Thank you for the translation! I couldn't listen to it myself because I hadn't earplugs with me, but indeed, it was not that hard too understand some things.

Anyway, that doesn't sound too bad. It's good that he is scheduled to ride Pais Vasco (although he is not on the provisional startlist), and not Sarthe which is at the same time but of a lower level, so the management of Movistar must be confident that his form is OK. It could be the ideal preparation for the Ardennes. Last year he played a role in the finale of Liège, so with a better form he should be capable of doing great things in Liège.

Another positive element is that he has a clear target in the second part of the season: the Vuelta. Adding the Tour to that is maybe a bit optimistic, but it could a goal for him to work for.

Call me naive, but once again I have good hopes and I hope he can prove the doubters wrong who are saying that he's done. ;)
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19 Mar 2017 08:23

I think its weird for him to have La Vuelta as a big goal since he usually is 10-15 kg overweight at that point, but if it motivates him, then go for it. The Vuelta team will also be open when no Quintana is there, both him and Carapaz could be there. But just thinking loud, why not just the Giro? Its the GT he is most reliable for.
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Re:

19 Mar 2017 09:49

Valv.Piti wrote:I think its weird for him to have La Vuelta as a big goal since he usually is 10-15 kg overweight at that point, but if it motivates him, then go for it. The Vuelta team will also be open when no Quintana is there, both him and Carapaz could be there. But just thinking loud, why not just the Giro? Its the GT he is most reliable for.

If Betancur races consistently through the year with only short breaks, he'll have lost that 10kgs stopping him from producing good results. Maybe the Vuelta could be the best GT for him if he's settled in to his team and environment and has a strong base from the rest of the season.
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19 Mar 2017 10:17

I don't think it's actually physically possible for him to have a good base at this point. Not after at least three full winters of doing bugger-all. You can more or less get away with that when you're still young, but as you grow older you really need a proper base to build on.
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19 Mar 2017 11:07

Bananito before the race:
Image
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Re:

19 Mar 2017 11:21

SafeBet wrote:Bananito before the race:
Image


Wow..He is on the heavier side. :lol: :D :lol:
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19 Mar 2017 11:39

Looks like he needs to strip 5 or 6kgs.
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