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UCI to trial disc brakes?

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Re: Re:

15 Apr 2017 18:30

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:For clarification on the Specialized position.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/02/specialized-pressuring-riders-use-disc-brakes-yes-no/

"Interestingly, Specialized doesn’t dispute Hansen’s assertion that it is pushing its riders to adopt disc brakes. In fact, global PR manager Sean Estes openly admits it. “Yeah, we’re pushing it, because we’re making [disc-equipped bikes] and we believe in them,” he said. “But the implication in this most recent article that ‘pushing something’ is a bad idea is totally ridiculous. We pay teams and athletes to endorse our products, just like everyone does. That is literally how this sport works. Of course we’re pushing it. But we’re not pushing anything that’s dangerous or anything that we don’t believe in or that we don’t think they shouldn’t believe in. We’re attempting to guide them to what we believe is the right way. There’s nothing malicious whatsoever.”


it seems you forgot to quote the final part of the article:

“While we definitely do encourage our riders to use specific products that we believe provide a performance edge, we absolutely do not make our teams and riders use anything they don’t want to use, or don’t feel comfortable using,” he said. “We have been working on disc brakes for two years with our teams, providing information, working with the riders to show the true benefits. So to be clear — and this may sound like semantics, but I believe it’s an important distinction — we are not pushing the riders to do anything, in the sense of making them do specific things, rather we are working with the riders, the teams, the UCI, etc, to help drive technology forward.
carolina
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Re:

15 Apr 2017 19:05

RedheadDane wrote:Well, those are the issues always being brought up by riders and other people within the sport. Though... maybe I did word myself kinda badly...

But again: what's the hurry?


IMHO the hurry is some people need their not insignificant purchasing investment justified by legalizing discs in the pro peloton. I don't ride on the road when its raining and just use my Turbo trainer on those days when I am sure discs would make a real difference. Plus club racing is cancelled when wet for safety and insurance reasons.

Personally I say this is the least significant upgrade to road bikes in the last 30 years for the most expense. Certainly the move from 10 to 11 speed cassettes was a bigger deal. That extra 16T cog was actually useful most of the time and as I have to pay for my bikes, to offset the weight gain from a disc setup I will need to spend quite a lot.

My current bike isn't exactly heavy but it is still over the UCI limit. The frame is a Focus Izalco Max with Dura Ace mechanical and Swiss DT Alloy rims, 7.2Kg with rim brakes but about 7.7Kg in a disc version (hydraulics plus reinforced disc compatible frame). 7.2Kg in a disc version? Maybe $1,500+ in better wheels, carbon handlebars etc. No thanks Mr Bike Industry :(
Cookster15
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Re:

15 Apr 2017 21:05

RedheadDane wrote:Well, those are the issues always being brought up by riders and other people within the sport. Though... maybe I did word myself kinda badly...

A: Everyone is 110% sure disc brakes don't present a significantly greater risk than any other part of the bike.

B: They don't make wheel change - including getting a wheel from neutral - more difficult. After all, I guess if everyone has disc brakes everyone will take the equal amount of time to get their wheel changed; the differences being with the mechanics, rather than the wheels.
Of course as it is now the wheel issue might also arrive within a team, with some riders using discs and others not. Which, imho, makes Cannondales' decision of having every rider use discs in those races where they test them a pretty smart idea. If they're gonna test them anyway...

C: Okay, I'll admit that here I simply repeated a fact I remember reading riders talk about.
About Kittel being able to win; I'd say it's probably something to do with his power. He'd beating Cavendish quite a few times, even though Cav is probably more aero than he is.

As for waiting: I'm not suggesting the engineers should simply wait, I kinda think they need to still work on improving the disc brakes. Also... two years really isn't that long.
Besides; why is it that important to have discs introduced now? You haven't really answered that. In fact, if we're simply talking about introducing disc brakes to the pro peloton simply waiting could very well be the solution. After all, it's very possible that the people coming up through the Junior and U23 ranks will begin to prefer discs, eventually Junior and U23 riders will - for the most part - become pros, while the riders currently in the pro peloton will retire. So, in time, everyone will me using discs.
It might take five years, it might even take ten years. But again: what's the hurry?


A: It's not about the relative risk v other bike components, it's about the relative risk versus other braking tech (i.e. rim brakes). That can only be done via decent data gathering and sound analysis methodology, which has not been done. This is what can help address the perception about the change in risk level held by many professional riders.

B. Until there is a common component standard and everyone is using it, this is going to be a dilemma for many riders. No neutral moto can be expected to have all wheel types available, and so many riders are quite probably going to need to wait for their team car to arrive for a change. In races there are often long periods when the team car is many minutes away from reaching their rider while the neutral is usually available. At present riders are considering the parcours and deciding whether or not a disc braked bike is too much of a risk because of the increased risk of a puncture and the increased risk of a long delay with getting a wheel change, e.g. Boonen and others at Paris-Roubaix. Specialized even had to make a special custom version of their race bike just to enable these riders to use rim brakes

C. Who wins what race is a meaningless statement wrt aerodynamics but your point is that it's possible to win with them on a bike. What we know from some testing is that the differences are not large, but they do exist and they are variable. The real issue here is that pros are mobile billboards, they are often not riding the most suitable or optimal technology for them. IOW this isn't really an argument that matters either way.
User avatar Alex Simmons/RST
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Re:

16 Apr 2017 04:23

RedheadDane wrote:

....Besides; why is it that important to have discs introduced now? You haven't really answered that


For the last 2 years through starts and stops the UCI allows them in racing. What's to answer?

In fact, if we're simply talking about introducing disc brakes to the pro peloton simply waiting could very well be the solution. After all, it's very possible that the people coming up through the Junior and U23 ranks will begin to prefer discs, eventually Junior and U23 riders will - for the most part - become pros, while the riders currently in the pro peloton will retire. So, in time, everyone will me using discs.
It might take five years, it might even take ten years. But again: what's the hurry?


Wait for what? Disc have been available on road bikes for 5 years, in the pros for 2, and there's already a generation of amateur racers that don't know anything but electronic grouppos and disc brakes. What was the hurry with carbon fiber or anything else? Pros put up with years of catastrophic failures with carbon, some injures and races lost because of it. And it still happens every so often.
User avatar Giuseppe Magnetico
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Re: Re:

16 Apr 2017 10:00

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:

....Besides; why is it that important to have discs introduced now? You haven't really answered that


For the last 2 years through starts and stops the UCI allows them in racing. What's to answer?

In fact, if we're simply talking about introducing disc brakes to the pro peloton simply waiting could very well be the solution. After all, it's very possible that the people coming up through the Junior and U23 ranks will begin to prefer discs, eventually Junior and U23 riders will - for the most part - become pros, while the riders currently in the pro peloton will retire. So, in time, everyone will me using discs.
It might take five years, it might even take ten years. But again: what's the hurry?


Wait for what? Disc have been available on road bikes for 5 years, in the pros for 2, and there's already a generation of amateur racers that don't know anything but electronic grouppos and disc brakes. What was the hurry with carbon fiber or anything else? Pros put up with years of catastrophic failures with carbon, some injures and races lost because of it. And it still happens every so often.

Good point. And, of course, completely re-inforces the point that these things should be thoroughly and independently tested before being introduced to the pro peloton. Just like the riders are asking for.
User avatar DFA123
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Re: UCI to trial disc brakes?

16 Apr 2017 15:19

I think crash testing would be a good idea because it would quickly put to bed this absurd and completely overblown perception of fear. Have serious doubts whether that's ever going to happen though. The CPA chose to politicize a bike part over nothing, even threatened litigation after the Doull incident. So the UCI called their bluff and said enough is enough and keeps them acceptable for racing. If the CPA is going to speak for riders playing the 'red herring' card every time they see a rotor in the field they flushed their credibility down the toilet in every instance.
User avatar Giuseppe Magnetico
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Re: UCI to trial disc brakes?

11 Feb 2018 10:31

pastronef
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