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Esteban Chaves Discussion Thread

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Re:

12 Feb 2017 02:34

swuzzlebubble wrote:Are Haig, Verona, Durbo, A or B Team?

Durbridge is A team just about anywhere, Verona is borderline and Haig needs another year or two.
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Re: Re:

12 Feb 2017 08:05

42x16ss wrote:
yaco wrote:
42x16ss wrote:
yaco wrote:Redhead Dane is correct - Cort is not riding the TDF - Outside chance for the Giro but probably the Vuelta.

Plaza is riding the Giro and Vuelta in support of GC riders and Tuft is likewise, while Haig is definitely riding Giro. - Chaves wants Bewley for the TDF but is unlikely.

Why is he unlikely? Bewley has earned a start with how he's ridden the last few years. He's a relatively versatile diesel, who can pace all day and protect his captain. On top of this, Bewley and Chaves get along like a house on fire, they room together all the time. I see no reason for Bewley not to race any GT Chaves does TBH.


My TDF Team

Chaves
Howson
Bewley
Hayman
A.Yates
Impey
Kreuziger
Keukeliere
Albasini

A pure GC team with limited chances to win stages.

Part of me wants to see Orica throw caution to the wind and go with:

Chaves
Yates
Yates
Howson
Kreuziger
Verona
Plaza
Bewley
Durbridge

And have one goal - create mass chaos. Just for the lols...


Actually would replace Albasini with Durbridge in my team - The way to create mass chaos is to ride the mountain stages hard from kilometre 1 - Try to weaken the Sky climbers ( which is most of their team ) on the flat, before they get to the mountains - This of course will be bad for the breakaways - Adopt this strategy and you only want 3 or 4 climbers in your team - Get the rouleur/TT type riders to crank up the pace.
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12 Feb 2017 09:29

In all honesty, a number of positions are likely to remain fluid/have multiple options until season form or injury/illness provide the decider. We also need to take into account the level of familiarity with Chaves that the relative riders may have.

The Chaves/S.Yates double seemed to work congenially and effectively at last year's Vuelta and could conceivably work well again but Tour and Vuelta are different beasts.

Durbridge is a superb flat-land diesel but he hasn't the GT experience with Chaves that Hepburn has .... or Bewley. Impey rode a superlative 2016 Tour but his last GT with Chaves was the 2015 Vuelta. He was the primo lieutenant for A.Yates at last year's Tour; there's a significant case to be made for sending him in a similar role to the Giro if Adam is to be "the man" for that one.

Kluge's prime reason for signing was as lead-out for Ewan but he also does offer flat-land grunt utility .... and either if either he or Mezgec show some form during the season, either of them may get a ticket to one of the GTs (without Ewan) with the potential licence to freelance at some sprint finishes. Ewan, to my mind, is extremely problematic as a GT selection SHOULD ORS, as expected, be pursuing GC at all 3 GTs. No team with such intentions can afford to be "voluntarily" be going one man down by half distance ...... that's what you're getting with little Caleb. Docker in similar situation; would suspect that Giro his best chance of a GT start.

Barring illness/injury, Kreuziger will be at the Tour ..... whether he proves to be worth his price-tag, we cannot know at this point. Plaza or Verona ?? I think one will go to the Giro, the other to the Tour. Plaza has the experience, Verona the potential "up side" but as yet, Verona has yet to show anything at ORS.

Juul-Jensen had an anonymous 2016; he will realistically need a step up in performance to ensure a trip to this year's Tour ... or any of them.

Albasini & Gerrans have traditionally both done the Tour together but I would probably split them this year with both taking a similar "senior man" role at whichever race.

Hayman to the Tour ?? Not sure its a done deal. Yes, he gelled well with Chaves in 2015 but wasn't part of his team for either of his 2016 GTs. He will undoubtedly be given precedence for PR but, given this is likely to be his final season, form and fitness may decide which GT he goes to. Yes, his road captain experience is valuable but the team also have others with similar credentials who may actually be able to "deliver more" when it comes to executing any set pieces.

Keukeleire & Cort ?? Both going off contract at the end of this year and, whilst both seen as cobbles men; both also add considerably utility to a GT line-up. Both have flat land power, reasonable utility in the hills and both can deliver in reduced sprints. Cort is potentially the team's biggest re-signing priority at the end of this year so how they handle his race schedule (given he's seemingly not doing the Tour) will be interesting.

Haig & Power ?? Haig had an excellent first season and a successful 1st GT at last year's Vuelta. How "second season syndrome" plays out remains to be seen. Power essentially lost all of 2016 and, whilst his retention is most likely, its extremely long-odds that he will be considered for any GT.
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12 Feb 2017 15:49

Dirk - They'll need to find more money for Cort after his win in the Clasica de Almaria. Hope they give him more rope in the Classics.
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Re:

13 Feb 2017 04:18

yaco wrote:Dirk - They'll need to find more money for Cort after his win in the Clasica de Almaria. Hope they give him more rope in the Classics.


Certainly, but take a look at who else they have going off contract at the end of this year ?

Gerrans is the biggest money but its 50/50 at best that he will continue so his retirement would free up quite a lot and even an extention would be on a reduced sum.

Tuft - retirement

Hayman - about to hit 39, retirement more likely than not.

Albasini - would be on good $$$ but not top $$$. May have one more 2 year extention in him IF he wishes to continue but such a deal wouldn't be a bank-breaker.

Keukeleire - another "original" and a rider that the team has brought on. A fruitful cobbles season may see some market interest but he's been at home at this team .... and a raise (if warranted) is unlikely to endanger other deals. Only likely to leave if (1) he receives an offer too good to refuse (2) he sees himself being crowded out of opportunities by others.

Plaza - would probably have been signed on reasonable but not top $$$. Retention open to speculation and age also in the retirement bracket.

Juul-Jensen - an anonymous 1st season, probably needing a significant lift to ensure re-signing OR even significant market interest

Mezgec - whilst specifically signed to work with Ewan; also showing he can work fruitfully with Cort. Has also shown he can bring in some useful results. Probably on moderate $$$, his retention would not be a bank-breaker or endanger any major deals.

Haig/Edmondson & Power - all finishing their initial deals. All likely retentions unless someone has a miraculous break-out that inspires market interest. None on major $$$

The workers (Hepburn/Bewley/Docker) - not on major $$$. Docker esp may be under pressure to be retained.

Yes, I will agree that Cort will attract significant market interest; even moreso if he notches up further victories; but whilst ORS may not necessarily be able to match $$ for $$ the most lucrative offer; they should at minimum be able to offer a very competitive figure.

I think his decision may very much hinge on more than just $$$ but also on cycling and human factors; whether he feels that ORS remains the right vehicle for his continued development.
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13 Feb 2017 05:21

Hopefully they can replace Orica with a sponsor sufficient to at least retain the total budget at current levels.
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Re:

13 Feb 2017 05:38

swuzzlebubble wrote:Hopefully they can replace Orica with a sponsor sufficient to at least retain the total budget at current levels.


You'd think Gerry Ryan would stump up some extra cash if there is any shortfall
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Re:

13 Feb 2017 10:03

swuzzlebubble wrote:Hopefully they can replace Orica with a sponsor sufficient to at least retain the total budget at current levels.


We cannot know that for certain at this point but one cannot help thinking that they would NOT have proceeded with the upgrade/extension of Chaves' deal without some degree of surety in place.
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13 Feb 2017 11:25

Good post Dirk - My only point of disagreement is Juul - Jensen - Thought he had a very solid 2016 as evidenced in making the TDF Squad - Had a good race in Murcia and one I want to retain and he would be on moderate dollars.

The Orica/Mitchelton CT squad is effectively an Australian Academy squad with a few Asian riders thrown into the mix - Four of the Korda riderswill be joining the CT Squad - You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out the names.
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Re: Re:

13 Feb 2017 11:31

dirkprovin wrote:
yaco wrote:Dirk - They'll need to find more money for Cort after his win in the Clasica de Almaria. Hope they give him more rope in the Classics.


Certainly, but take a look at who else they have going off contract at the end of this year ?

Gerrans is the biggest money but its 50/50 at best that he will continue so his retirement would free up quite a lot and even an extention would be on a reduced sum.

Tuft - retirement

Hayman - about to hit 39, retirement more likely than not.

Albasini - would be on good $$$ but not top $$$. May have one more 2 year extention in him IF he wishes to continue but such a deal wouldn't be a bank-breaker.

Keukeleire - another "original" and a rider that the team has brought on. A fruitful cobbles season may see some market interest but he's been at home at this team .... and a raise (if warranted) is unlikely to endanger other deals. Only likely to leave if (1) he receives an offer too good to refuse (2) he sees himself being crowded out of opportunities by others.

Plaza - would probably have been signed on reasonable but not top $$$. Retention open to speculation and age also in the retirement bracket.

Juul-Jensen - an anonymous 1st season, probably needing a significant lift to ensure re-signing OR even significant market interest

Mezgec - whilst specifically signed to work with Ewan; also showing he can work fruitfully with Cort. Has also shown he can bring in some useful results. Probably on moderate $$$, his retention would not be a bank-breaker or endanger any major deals.

Haig/Edmondson & Power - all finishing their initial deals. All likely retentions unless someone has a miraculous break-out that inspires market interest. None on major $$$

The workers (Hepburn/Bewley/Docker) - not on major $$$. Docker esp may be under pressure to be retained.

Yes, I will agree that Cort will attract significant market interest; even moreso if he notches up further victories; but whilst ORS may not necessarily be able to match $$ for $$ the most lucrative offer; they should at minimum be able to offer a very competitive figure.

I think his decision may very much hinge on more than just $$$ but also on cycling and human factors; whether he feels that ORS remains the right vehicle for his continued development.

Gerrans will see out his contract and probably move on to a DS position.

Keukeleire has said that he's at home with Orica and and doesn't look like going anywhere. He's going to be the go to guy in the classics with Durbridge and Cort as his main backup for a while now.

Tuft looks tired but content, I think this will be his last year but will probably stay on with the team in some capacity.

Hayman? He's an enigma IMO. He's riding like a man 10 years younger and seems to be loving being around the young guys. The way he rode the 2015 Vuelta for Chaves was something else. At the very least there's another Roubaix or two left.
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22 Feb 2017 10:23

Confirmed: Chaves to the TdF

http://www.greenedgecycling.com/news/chaves-to-make-tour-de-france-debut-yates-brothers-set-sights-on-the-giro-and-vuelta

Giro: Yates & Yates
TdF: Chaves
Vuelta: Yates, Yates & Chaves
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22 Feb 2017 11:25

Fairly much confirms my earlier posts - Only surprise is one of the Yates is not riding in support in the TDF - This also indicates Orica will include a more attacking rider in their squad for the TDF in the hope of snaring a stage win - Will be great to see the three ride the Vuelta which gives Orica different tactical possibilities.
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22 Feb 2017 12:01

he will have Roman Kreuziguer by his side
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22 Feb 2017 14:31

I would have preferred one Yates for the Tour. We saw how valuable Simon was for Chaves at the Vuelta.
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22 Feb 2017 14:53

Any news on the rest of his program?
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Re:

22 Feb 2017 16:00

Flamin wrote:Any news on the rest of his program?


It will be light - This is the rider who had one race day between the Giro and the Vuelta - Rides the Colombian Championship on the 26th which gives him 13 race days - My guess is he will do Romandie and Dauphine - Will probably add one or two one day races - Would like him to Fleche
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Re: Re:

22 Feb 2017 16:23

yaco wrote:
Flamin wrote:Any news on the rest of his program?


It will be light - This is the rider who had one race day between the Giro and the Vuelta - Rides the Colombian Championship on the 26th which gives him 13 race days - My guess is he will do Romandie and Dauphine - Will probably add one or two one day races - Would like him to Fleche

Yes, the most likely schedule, I'd agree.
Dauphine or Suisse could be a dilemma, though.
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Re: Re:

22 Feb 2017 17:15

yaco wrote:
Flamin wrote:Any news on the rest of his program?


It will be light - This is the rider who had one race day between the Giro and the Vuelta - Rides the Colombian Championship on the 26th which gives him 13 race days - My guess is he will do Romandie and Dauphine - Will probably add one or two one day races - Would like him to Fleche


Ok, but still nothing official then.
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22 Feb 2017 18:20

Not doing at least one WT-race in March or Pais Vasco would be disappointing I can't see why he wouldnt race Catalunya + Pais Vasco.
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22 Feb 2017 19:56

Would've loved to see him TA-Catalunya-Ardennes but if you do that then I guess Romandie is too much if you're going Tour-Vuelta with Dauphine prep
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