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Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

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06 Jan 2018 07:53

Vuelta could well be Tommy D's if Froome does not show.
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06 Jan 2018 11:29

Landa is not riding the Giro ?
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Re:

06 Jan 2018 12:44

Valv.Piti wrote:I think the Tour route is fine for Tom, I don't really understand it. But then again he probably knows what suits him a bit more than I do. The only thing I can point at in the Tour is the Alps which are super hard this year.

RR translates a bit wrong as well. He simply likes the Giro more, not only in route, but also the atmosphere, the feeling, etc

HelloDolly wrote:Landa is not riding the Giro ?

No. Landa is going to the Tour as co-leader
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Re: Re:

06 Jan 2018 13:32

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:I think the Tour route is fine for Tom, I don't really understand it. But then again he probably knows what suits him a bit more than I do. The only thing I can point at in the Tour is the Alps which are super hard this year.

RR translates a bit wrong as well. He simply likes the Giro more, not only in route, but also the atmosphere, the feeling, etc

HelloDolly wrote:Landa is not riding the Giro ?

No. Landa is going to the Tour as co-leader

Yeah, I was lazy translating that
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Re: Re:

06 Jan 2018 23:18

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:I think the Tour route is fine for Tom, I don't really understand it. But then again he probably knows what suits him a bit more than I do. The only thing I can point at in the Tour is the Alps which are super hard this year.

RR translates a bit wrong as well. He simply likes the Giro more, not only in route, but also the atmosphere, the feeling, etc

HelloDolly wrote:Landa is not riding the Giro ?

No. Landa is going to the Tour as co-leader


Aru will be happy then especially if Froome doesn't show up at the Giro either.
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Re:

08 Jan 2018 16:33

Poursuivant wrote:http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/tom-dumoulin-could-challenge-chris-froome-in-quest-for-girotour-double-in-2018-364759

Sadly doubt the Dawg will not be doing much racing this year..Tom D solo Double attempt
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Re: Re:

08 Jan 2018 21:29

rick james wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/tom-dumoulin-could-challenge-chris-froome-in-quest-for-girotour-double-in-2018-364759

Sadly doubt the Dawg will not be doing much racing this year..Tom D solo Double attempt


Agreed
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

09 Jan 2018 06:18

“In my eyes a lot of riders have made the mistake in the past by focusing on both the Giro and the Tour from the start of the season,” Dumoulin told Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf.

“As a result, they were probably already in the Giro with the classification in the Tour in mind. That is a mindset that does not work. I think you should focus completely on the Giro and only then have to look further.”


I understand his point about not thinking about the Tour while riding the Giro, but surely the early season preparation for the double has to be different from that for the Giro alone? If he prepares as if only riding the Giro, I don’t see how he’s going to be at his best for the Tour.

And what if Froome doesn’t ride the Giro, and Dumoulin builds up a big lead late in the race. Isn’t there something to be said for not going all out to add to the lead, if he can still win comfortably? I guess the question is whether easing up a little at that point—which can be risky in terms of mindset, as he says—really can have a significant effect on riding the Tour later. Maybe the possible benefits aren’t enough to be worth changing one’s approach. But what we know is that Contador dominated the Giro in 2011, and he clearly didn't have enough left for the Tour.
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09 Jan 2018 10:10

I think Dumoulin is fully focused on the Giro and defending his title.

Depending on how the Giro has been and how he feeling afterwards. They will make a final decision about the Tour and if going there to go for GC. Maybe he wont go to the Tour at all and go the Vuelta instead.

It all really depends what happens at the Giro though and how much energy is spent.
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

09 Jan 2018 12:02

Merckx index wrote:
“In my eyes a lot of riders have made the mistake in the past by focusing on both the Giro and the Tour from the start of the season,” Dumoulin told Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf.

“As a result, they were probably already in the Giro with the classification in the Tour in mind. That is a mindset that does not work. I think you should focus completely on the Giro and only then have to look further.”


I understand his point about not thinking about the Tour while riding the Giro, but surely the early season preparation for the double has to be different from that for the Giro alone? If he prepares as if only riding the Giro, I don’t see how he’s going to be at his best for the Tour.

And what if Froome doesn’t ride the Giro, and Dumoulin builds up a big lead late in the race. Isn’t there something to be said for not going all out to add to the lead, if he can still win comfortably? I guess the question is whether easing up a little at that point—which can be risky in terms of mindset, as he says—really can have a significant effect on riding the Tour later. Maybe the possible benefits aren’t enough to be worth changing one’s approach. But what we know is that Contador dominated the Giro in 2011, and he clearly didn't have enough left for the Tour.

I don't think there's too much difference between Giro-Tour prep and Giro only prep, except for probably less heavy racing beforehand. However, Dumoulin already had a pretty light schedule ahead of the Giro this year. My best guess that Quintana was too good in the Tirreno already and managing form before the Giro became akward. Nibali did win TA before winning the Giro in 2013, but he wasn't preparing a double and wasn't great apart from the a crazy, rainy and hilly stage. Contador didn't race very much in 2011 and probably decompressed a little after winning Catalunya before returning to racing in FW where he was notably worse than in 2010.

Dumoulin's inspiration to maybe go to the Tour after the Giro is Mikel Landa, and I think he's a bad example. Landa crashed heavily in the Giro and then spent a few stages doing little and recover, which I think delays the form curve a little bit. I think he came out of the Giro with less fatigue or at least less need to decompress.

Lastly, I dont think Dumoulin can be compared to the likes of Contador, Quintana or Froome in double potential. Dumoulin has showed inconsistency in the last week of his first target GT, and typically his performances in Suisse after his Giro were far worse than other Giro riders that go there to get some more results.

Lastly, Contador in 2011 isn't comparable to this situation. That Giro was off the charts hard, and Contador was wasting energy almost everywhere except for the stage over the Finestre. He then crashed multiple times in the Tour. I still think he could have won it without losing that time on day 1 and without those crashes.

The 2018 Giro will be a lot easier. There will be more time between the races so scheduling will be different. But of all the riders who can be considered a favorite for the Giro or Tour, I think Dumoulin is the least likely to accomplish the double unless both routes suit him crazily.
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So why questions? If no answers?
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09 Jan 2018 15:00

Dumoulin wasn’t inconsistent in the final week, he was out of teammates and trying his best to cover attacks by Quintana and Nibali day in and day out. In the end he did a pretty good job of limiting his losses, and finding allies on the final mountain stage.
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Re:

09 Jan 2018 15:02

Leinster wrote:Dumoulin wasn’t inconsistent in the final week, he was out of teammates and trying his best to cover attacks by Quintana and Nibali day in and day out. In the end he did a pretty good job of limiting his losses, and finding allies on the final mountain stage.

Both Nibali and Quintana got worse and repeatedly got dropped in the last 2 mountain stages. Dumoulin went from climbing with them and controlling them with ease to getting dropped by them.
Kwibus wrote:So much questions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
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Re:

09 Jan 2018 22:37

Leinster wrote:Dumoulin wasn’t inconsistent in the final week, he was out of teammates and trying his best to cover attacks by Quintana and Nibali day in and day out. In the end he did a pretty good job of limiting his losses, and finding allies on the final mountain stage.


A pity for Aru that Landa is not riding the Giro. If they got away together it would be that much harder for Dumoulin but then there is the TTs..............Dumoulin was definitely weakening in the Giro. One more climbing stage would have snapped the string I think but at that stage the others were also feeling it and both Nibali and Quintana seemed below their best from stage one. Even removing poopgate from the equation, the stage where Dumoulin lost a minute on the descent almost cost him the race. He obviously learned something there. That was careless.
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

10 Jan 2018 02:17

Red Rick wrote:I don't think there's too much difference between Giro-Tour prep and Giro only prep, except for probably less heavy racing beforehand.

I have a problem with that statement. ;)
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

10 Jan 2018 12:40

Tonton wrote:
Red Rick wrote:I don't think there's too much difference between Giro-Tour prep and Giro only prep, except for probably less heavy racing beforehand.

I have a problem with that statement. ;)

What did Pinot do before the Giro last year? :o
Kwibus wrote:So much questions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

10 Jan 2018 17:16

Red Rick wrote:
Merckx index wrote:
“In my eyes a lot of riders have made the mistake in the past by focusing on both the Giro and the Tour from the start of the season,” Dumoulin told Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf.

“As a result, they were probably already in the Giro with the classification in the Tour in mind. That is a mindset that does not work. I think you should focus completely on the Giro and only then have to look further.”


I understand his point about not thinking about the Tour while riding the Giro, but surely the early season preparation for the double has to be different from that for the Giro alone? If he prepares as if only riding the Giro, I don’t see how he’s going to be at his best for the Tour.

And what if Froome doesn’t ride the Giro, and Dumoulin builds up a big lead late in the race. Isn’t there something to be said for not going all out to add to the lead, if he can still win comfortably? I guess the question is whether easing up a little at that point—which can be risky in terms of mindset, as he says—really can have a significant effect on riding the Tour later. Maybe the possible benefits aren’t enough to be worth changing one’s approach. But what we know is that Contador dominated the Giro in 2011, and he clearly didn't have enough left for the Tour.

I don't think there's too much difference between Giro-Tour prep and Giro only prep, except for probably less heavy racing beforehand. However, Dumoulin already had a pretty light schedule ahead of the Giro this year. My best guess that Quintana was too good in the Tirreno already and managing form before the Giro became akward. Nibali did win TA before winning the Giro in 2013, but he wasn't preparing a double and wasn't great apart from the a crazy, rainy and hilly stage. Contador didn't race very much in 2011 and probably decompressed a little after winning Catalunya before returning to racing in FW where he was notably worse than in 2010.

Dumoulin's inspiration to maybe go to the Tour after the Giro is Mikel Landa, and I think he's a bad example. Landa crashed heavily in the Giro and then spent a few stages doing little and recover, which I think delays the form curve a little bit. I think he came out of the Giro with less fatigue or at least less need to decompress.

Lastly, I dont think Dumoulin can be compared to the likes of Contador, Quintana or Froome in double potential. Dumoulin has showed inconsistency in the last week of his first target GT, and typically his performances in Suisse after his Giro were far worse than other Giro riders that go there to get some more results.

Lastly, Contador in 2011 isn't comparable to this situation. That Giro was off the charts hard, and Contador was wasting energy almost everywhere except for the stage over the Finestre. He then crashed multiple times in the Tour. I still think he could have won it without losing that time on day 1 and without those crashes.

The 2018 Giro will be a lot easier. There will be more time between the races so scheduling will be different. But of all the riders who can be considered a favorite for the Giro or Tour, I think Dumoulin is the least likely to accomplish the double unless both routes suit him crazily.


Still, Suisse is a lot closer to the Giro than the Tour. Plus they have an extra rest week. And Dumoulin was pretty good in San Sebastian. So provided he doesn't race anything in between and can focus and train well without a lot of press and distraction. It's possible he still does well in the Tour. However, the double? No way.
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

10 Jan 2018 18:20

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Merckx index wrote:
“In my eyes a lot of riders have made the mistake in the past by focusing on both the Giro and the Tour from the start of the season,” Dumoulin told Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf.

“As a result, they were probably already in the Giro with the classification in the Tour in mind. That is a mindset that does not work. I think you should focus completely on the Giro and only then have to look further.”


I understand his point about not thinking about the Tour while riding the Giro, but surely the early season preparation for the double has to be different from that for the Giro alone? If he prepares as if only riding the Giro, I don’t see how he’s going to be at his best for the Tour.

And what if Froome doesn’t ride the Giro, and Dumoulin builds up a big lead late in the race. Isn’t there something to be said for not going all out to add to the lead, if he can still win comfortably? I guess the question is whether easing up a little at that point—which can be risky in terms of mindset, as he says—really can have a significant effect on riding the Tour later. Maybe the possible benefits aren’t enough to be worth changing one’s approach. But what we know is that Contador dominated the Giro in 2011, and he clearly didn't have enough left for the Tour.

I don't think there's too much difference between Giro-Tour prep and Giro only prep, except for probably less heavy racing beforehand. However, Dumoulin already had a pretty light schedule ahead of the Giro this year. My best guess that Quintana was too good in the Tirreno already and managing form before the Giro became akward. Nibali did win TA before winning the Giro in 2013, but he wasn't preparing a double and wasn't great apart from the a crazy, rainy and hilly stage. Contador didn't race very much in 2011 and probably decompressed a little after winning Catalunya before returning to racing in FW where he was notably worse than in 2010.

Dumoulin's inspiration to maybe go to the Tour after the Giro is Mikel Landa, and I think he's a bad example. Landa crashed heavily in the Giro and then spent a few stages doing little and recover, which I think delays the form curve a little bit. I think he came out of the Giro with less fatigue or at least less need to decompress.

Lastly, I dont think Dumoulin can be compared to the likes of Contador, Quintana or Froome in double potential. Dumoulin has showed inconsistency in the last week of his first target GT, and typically his performances in Suisse after his Giro were far worse than other Giro riders that go there to get some more results.

Lastly, Contador in 2011 isn't comparable to this situation. That Giro was off the charts hard, and Contador was wasting energy almost everywhere except for the stage over the Finestre. He then crashed multiple times in the Tour. I still think he could have won it without losing that time on day 1 and without those crashes.

The 2018 Giro will be a lot easier. There will be more time between the races so scheduling will be different. But of all the riders who can be considered a favorite for the Giro or Tour, I think Dumoulin is the least likely to accomplish the double unless both routes suit him crazily.


Still, Suisse is a lot closer to the Giro than the Tour. Plus they have an extra rest week. And Dumoulin was pretty good in San Sebastian. So provided he doesn't race anything in between and can focus and train well without a lot of press and distraction. It's possible he still does well in the Tour. However, the double? No way.

Yeah, and that's why they should ditch the idea. Even if the Vuelta is the most ridiculously mountainious route, which won't, any Vuelta or Worlds attempt would be better than a Tour de France which is a waste of the entire rest of the year in terms of wins
Kwibus wrote:So much questions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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10 Jan 2018 18:45

I don't necessarily think its a bad idea to go for the Giro win and then within a week decide if you are riding the Tour. I mean, he could feel well and all, legitimately well, but the chances aren't that big really. I think he is smart enough not to do it it he feels it just isn't clicking. My point is its not necessarily bad to have the Tour as an option should he against all odds feel flying
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10 Jan 2018 20:34

Clearly Dumoulin is targeting the mythical triple crown :p

After pulling that off he will win all five monuments in one season and be objectively the GOAT :eek:

Then he will become the first man to travel to Mars to escape from the menacing press ;)
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