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Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

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Re: Re:

08 May 2018 06:40

Red Rick wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:Well a forum is also kinda old fashioned. Reddit is still growing, and discord is taking over left right and centre as a hub for discussions.

Older people give up, younger people don't like forums

Always found reddit pretty terrible.


I also dislike reddit.
Personally my life just got to busy(kids) to really keep up with this forum.

I also think that in the old days this was a topnotch forum with lots of wuality posters and I think lots of them dissapeared when trolls were a big part on this forum.
The big trolls have dissapeared as well though.
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

08 May 2018 07:40

Tonton wrote:Reddit sucks, many opinions, not many contributions. Velo101 has some very knowledgeable members, all ten of them :D . CN offers a good balance of size/contributions, it's a good international mix (except when Sagan gets DQed and we get 5 million new members defending him :p ), our design thread is the best, and we have national treasures like LS and Merckx_index (and Netserk, who is NOT overrated :) ).

Back to Dumoulin, great start, we'll see in the coming days how strong he is. Same time last year, I was warning that he had to be put away early or he would win. Quintana and NIbali (the big favorites) played games, waited like many of us for a "bad day". That never happened. His guts blew up :D but Tom didn't.

Now he's compared to Indurain. Tom is Dumourain, he did it, is a lot more confident. It's a big difference.

I bet that he's as strong as he was last year. The wannabee winners need to make up half a minute, gain another two...easier written than done. If Pozzo is right, no headwind on Etna... these guys need something to believe. 20-30 seconds.

Easier written that done. Last year I became a believer. Tom Dumoulin is the best GT rider right now.

Etna has the single km that suits the climbers before Dumoulin has 5km to pull the Oropa and grind them into shambles
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

08 May 2018 09:27

Squire wrote:
Tonton wrote:Tom Dumoulin is the best GT rider right now.

On a route like last year's, yes. Remains to be seen how he'll handle the last week, when he'll be hit by three consecutive, hard mountain stages. That didn't work out too well in the Vuelta. And the Zonc will be interesting, but I think he'll handle that one. He's the same size as Basso, so I don't buy the 'heavy time trialist' argument.

Have to stop you here. Vuelta was 2015, when he didn't even come into the race as a GT rider. He was unprepared, didn't even knew his limits in a race like that. It was an accident so to speak. So you cannot compare this. I cannot underline how important this is.
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

08 May 2018 09:41

Squire wrote:
Tonton wrote:Tom Dumoulin is the best GT rider right now.

On a route like last year's, yes. Remains to be seen how he'll handle the last week, when he'll be hit by three consecutive, hard mountain stages. That didn't work out too well in the Vuelta. And the Zonc will be interesting, but I think he'll handle that one. He's the same size as Basso, so I don't buy the 'heavy time trialist' argument.


That's a big claim. If "right now" means before stage 3 of the 2018 Giro, then yes. But in the season-long meaning of best, it's still Froome.

To be clear, I love Dumoulin's skills and his personality is a plus for me -- I'm a fan. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. I was petty certain that Basso was gonna win like 6 GTs -- same with Andy Schleck...
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08 May 2018 10:29

I think its funny how many people talk about Dennis take the Dumoulin-road and beginning to specialise in GT-racing, and before that Dumoulin emulating Wiggo.

Dumoulin is just so much more versatile than Wiggins and Dennis. Dennis is much more in the mold of Wiggins, they are the same types. Great TT, questionable climbing and not much more tbh. Obviously great aerobic engines, but no chances in one day races. Dumoulin does well in pretty much all bike races.
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Re: Re:

08 May 2018 12:00

Kwibus wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:Well a forum is also kinda old fashioned. Reddit is still growing, and discord is taking over left right and centre as a hub for discussions.

Older people give up, younger people don't like forums

Always found reddit pretty terrible.


I also dislike reddit.
Personally my life just got to busy(kids) to really keep up with this forum.

I also think that in the old days this was a topnotch forum with lots of wuality posters and I think lots of them dissapeared when trolls were a big part on this forum.
The big trolls have dissapeared as well though.


I have noticed that the amount of posts for the Giro and Tour and other important races has dropped significantly. There seems to be more people in the Clinic sometimes ! I miss the lively discussions of the Contador/Evans/Andy years.........
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Re:

08 May 2018 12:19

Valv.Piti wrote:I think its funny how many people talk about Dennis take the Dumoulin-road and beginning to specialise in GT-racing, and before that Dumoulin emulating Wiggo.

Dumoulin is just so much more versatile than Wiggins and Dennis. Dennis is much more in the mold of Wiggins, they are the same types. Great TT, questionable climbing and not much more tbh. Obviously great aerobic engines, but no chances in one day races. Dumoulin does well in pretty much all bike races.


But they are of a similar type. Wiggins made a successful transition from the track and so has Dennis so far. How far Dennis goes is another matter. Wiggins won five stage races : Romandie, PN, the Tour and two Dauphines, Dumoulin has won two so far, the Giro and Eenco and both of them have a podium at the Vuelta. Then you have their TT medals. I think they are quite similar. Not sure where the Dumoulin superiority comes in so far, but he has age on his side of course like Dennis.
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Re: Re:

08 May 2018 13:04

movingtarget wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:I think its funny how many people talk about Dennis take the Dumoulin-road and beginning to specialise in GT-racing, and before that Dumoulin emulating Wiggo.

Dumoulin is just so much more versatile than Wiggins and Dennis. Dennis is much more in the mold of Wiggins, they are the same types. Great TT, questionable climbing and not much more tbh. Obviously great aerobic engines, but no chances in one day races. Dumoulin does well in pretty much all bike races.


But they are of a similar type. Wiggins made a successful transition from the track and so has Dennis so far. How far Dennis goes is another matter. Wiggins won five stage races : Romandie, PN, the Tour and two Dauphines, Dumoulin has won two so far, the Giro and Eenco and both of them have a podium at the Vuelta. Then you have their TT medals. I think they are quite similar. Not sure where the Dumoulin superiority comes in so far, but he has age on his side of course like Dennis.

Dumoulin didn't podium the Vuelta.

Wiggins had one season where he won every ITT and got dragged on to every climb by a ridiculously strong team across 4 super ITT heavy stage races. I think he won like one road stage in his career?

Dumoulin almost won the Vuelta with John Degenkolb as his best climbing domestique, won the Giro largely on his own, has won long ITTs and mountain finishes in all GTs, been up there in WCRRs, and shown potential in just about race there is.
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08 May 2018 13:13

Yeah I don't like the Wiggins comparison either. Because Dumoulin has basically been on himself most of the time and the Vuelta break through began with him following Chaves on punchy finishes and stuff... Something I can never imagine Wiggins doing or Dennis doing
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08 May 2018 13:16

Apparently, Dumoulin was interrogated by Israeli customs

https://nos.nl/artikel/2230816-israelische-douane-ondervraagt-dumoulin-wat-deed-u-in-jeruzalem.html

"What the hell are you doing in Jerusalem?"
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Re: Re:

08 May 2018 13:35

Red Rick wrote:
Wiggins had one season where he won every ITT and got dragged on to every climb by a ridiculously strong team across 4 super ITT heavy stage races. I think he won like one road stage in his career?

Well Dumoulin has won just 3 road stages himself.
Which is not to say they are necessarily similar riders, but Wiggins winning just one road stage doesn't tell the whole story. In his prime he was the very best tim trialler in the world and among the best climbers, no matter the type of climb. Shouldn't be underestimated.
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Re: Re:

08 May 2018 13:50

SafeBet wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Wiggins had one season where he won every ITT and got dragged on to every climb by a ridiculously strong team across 4 super ITT heavy stage races. I think he won like one road stage in his career?

Well Dumoulin has won just 3 road stages himself.
Which is not to say they are necessarily similar riders, but Wiggins winning just one road stage doesn't tell the whole story. In his prime he was the very best tim trialler in the world and among the best climbers, no matter the type of climb. Shouldn't be underestimated.
and his road stage victories were all epic
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Re: Re:

08 May 2018 16:29

Red Rick wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:I think its funny how many people talk about Dennis take the Dumoulin-road and beginning to specialise in GT-racing, and before that Dumoulin emulating Wiggo.

Dumoulin is just so much more versatile than Wiggins and Dennis. Dennis is much more in the mold of Wiggins, they are the same types. Great TT, questionable climbing and not much more tbh. Obviously great aerobic engines, but no chances in one day races. Dumoulin does well in pretty much all bike races.


But they are of a similar type. Wiggins made a successful transition from the track and so has Dennis so far. How far Dennis goes is another matter. Wiggins won five stage races : Romandie, PN, the Tour and two Dauphines, Dumoulin has won two so far, the Giro and Eenco and both of them have a podium at the Vuelta. Then you have their TT medals. I think they are quite similar. Not sure where the Dumoulin superiority comes in so far, but he has age on his side of course like Dennis.

Dumoulin didn't podium the Vuelta.

Wiggins had one season where he won every ITT and got dragged on to every climb by a ridiculously strong team across 4 super ITT heavy stage races. I think he won like one road stage in his career?

Dumoulin almost won the Vuelta with John Degenkolb as his best climbing domestique, won the Giro largely on his own, has won long ITTs and mountain finishes in all GTs, been up there in WCRRs, and shown potential in just about race there is.


i'm talking about wins. He has won two stage races and one was the Eneco. Of course he was impressive in the Vuelta and Giro. He still relies a lot on his TT like Wiggins did. Wiggins as a climber was no worse than Dumoulin probably better. Differences in style okay but it doesn't change the results sheet. Yes he was third in the TDS not the Vuelta.
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08 May 2018 16:35

I just don't see how Wiggins is in the same league uphill as Dumoulin.
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Re: Re:

08 May 2018 16:38

movingtarget wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:I think its funny how many people talk about Dennis take the Dumoulin-road and beginning to specialise in GT-racing, and before that Dumoulin emulating Wiggo.

Dumoulin is just so much more versatile than Wiggins and Dennis. Dennis is much more in the mold of Wiggins, they are the same types. Great TT, questionable climbing and not much more tbh. Obviously great aerobic engines, but no chances in one day races. Dumoulin does well in pretty much all bike races.


But they are of a similar type. Wiggins made a successful transition from the track and so has Dennis so far. How far Dennis goes is another matter. Wiggins won five stage races : Romandie, PN, the Tour and two Dauphines, Dumoulin has won two so far, the Giro and Eenco and both of them have a podium at the Vuelta. Then you have their TT medals. I think they are quite similar. Not sure where the Dumoulin superiority comes in so far, but he has age on his side of course like Dennis.

Dumoulin didn't podium the Vuelta.

Wiggins had one season where he won every ITT and got dragged on to every climb by a ridiculously strong team across 4 super ITT heavy stage races. I think he won like one road stage in his career?

Dumoulin almost won the Vuelta with John Degenkolb as his best climbing domestique, won the Giro largely on his own, has won long ITTs and mountain finishes in all GTs, been up there in WCRRs, and shown potential in just about race there is.


i'm talking about wins. He has won two stage races and one was the Eneco. Of course he was impressive in the Vuelta and Giro. He still relies a lot on his TT like Wiggins did. Wiggins as a climber was no worse than Dumoulin probably better. Differences in style okay but it doesn't change the results sheet. Yes he was third in the TDS not the Vuelta.

Dumoulin actually won three HTF/MTF, including one against Froome and one against Quintana, and with no team to help him, i don't think anything Wiggins ever did can trump that climbing wise.
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Re: Re:

08 May 2018 16:38

SafeBet wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Wiggins had one season where he won every ITT and got dragged on to every climb by a ridiculously strong team across 4 super ITT heavy stage races. I think he won like one road stage in his career?

Well Dumoulin has won just 3 road stages himself.
Which is not to say they are necessarily similar riders, but Wiggins winning just one road stage doesn't tell the whole story. In his prime he was the very best tim trialler in the world and among the best climbers, no matter the type of climb. Shouldn't be underestimated.


When was Wiggins 'prime? 2012 and nothing else
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08 May 2018 16:46

Lol I just cannot compare Wiggins to Dumoulin. It's not just about wins and results, but have you actually SEEN the races, the style of riding? It's completely different. But whatever... useless discussion as Wiggins retired anyway.

Today he looked fine to me. Ofcourse he's not as explosive as Yates or Wellens or Woods so calculated 4s loss. In the 'hood of Pozzovivo and co is fine.
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

08 May 2018 16:56

Dumoulin also said he could have had a much better result if he took some more risk.
Says he was a coward, when they stopped riding in front he could've gone to the front (at 400/600m), but then he chose to take it easy, had to break for others and had to restart the sprint from very slow speed.

edit: even says he wanted to sprint for the win. He acknowledges Wellens would probably be way too hard to beat, but he believed he could have at least contested the top places if he went out of the wind at 500m instead of waiting a bit longer and getting swamped
Last edited by Dekker_Tifosi on 08 May 2018 17:01, edited 1 time in total.
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08 May 2018 16:59

Why isn't Dumo compared to Evans? While Evans probably wasn't as dominant time trialist, he was almost always too 3 to 5 and won TT at the TDF once or twice and came second a lot. Also a grinder in the mountains and always top 3 climbers in the race like dumo without a team. Wiggins to me was 100 times worse a rider than Evans
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Re:

08 May 2018 17:09

Scarponi wrote:Why isn't Dumo compared to Evans? While Evans probably wasn't as dominant time trialist, he was almost always too 3 to 5 and won TT at the TDF once or twice and came second a lot. Also a grinder in the mountains and always top 3 climbers in the race like dumo without a team. Wiggins to me was 100 times worse a rider than Evans


The Wiggins style wasn't liked, worse than Froome but he still got results. I think Evans is neither Dumo or Wiggins, a little different again, he also had a decent sprint on the right stage. Dumoulin is looking good so far in this race. Still too early to write off Froome.
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