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Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

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Re: Re:

04 Oct 2018 18:42

tobydawq wrote:
Red Rick wrote:Best doesn't equate to most succesful.


True. Which is why Sagan beyond doubt has been the best rider for the last many years.


If there's a rider around who, in the previous 4 years, has won 3 Tours, a Giro and a Vuelta, in addition to a couple of other GT podiums, by default, they're pretty much the world's best rider, almost regardless of the results of any other rider and how much they're disliked on this forum. That's pretty legendary form, almost for any era. Hell, just a few months ago, he held all GT titles simultaneously.
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04 Oct 2018 18:48

Not by default, but it takes some serious domination in other races to stand up to that.

It depends on what period where talking, but Froome probably tops the list this decade.

Although actually if we count 2010 then I think there's a solid case for Nibali.
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04 Oct 2018 18:56

Yeah Nibali won all GT's + monuments like MSR and Lombardy.

Froome is more of a, sorry to say, 1 trick pony. His wins at GT's and stage races only. And he didn't even do a solid top 10 in a one day race that matters
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04 Oct 2018 19:02

I was just going by Red Rick's admission that the best rider doesn't need to be the most successful.

Nibali has probably been close to the most successful rider of recent years but especially since he stopped being relevant for 80% of the season, he is IMO quite far from claiming the honours of being the best, ability-wise, rider in the peloton.

To me, that's Sagan because he can win on so much different terrain and he is always the reference point of any race he rides (with the recent Worlds as a very rare exception).
Last edited by tobydawq on 04 Oct 2018 19:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

04 Oct 2018 19:02

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:Yeah Nibali won all GT's + monuments like MSR and Lombardy.

Froome is more of a, sorry to say, 1 trick pony. His wins at GT's and stage races only. And he didn't even do a solid top 10 in a one day race that matters

Never mind solid top 10s, does he even have any top 10s in one day road races?
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Re:

04 Oct 2018 19:05

tobydawq wrote:I was just going by Red Rick's admission that the best rider doesn't need to be the most successful.

Nibali has probably been close to the most successful rider of recent years but especially since he stopped being relevant for 80% of the season, he is IMO quite far from claiming the honours of being the best, ability-wise, rider in the peloton.

To me, that's Sagan because he can win on so much different terrain and he is always the reference point of any race he rides (with the recent Worlds as a very rare exception).

I don't discount Nibali cause in the biggest races he really does bring it everywhere he can. Minor stage races are the least relevant for me if we're talking best rider in the world. Now this year Nibali is kinda nowhere but if he say podiums Tour and Worlds he's up there.

Best 3 riders of the year are Froome, Dumoulin and Yates for me.
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Re: Re:

04 Oct 2018 19:12

Red Rick wrote:
tobydawq wrote:I was just going by Red Rick's admission that the best rider doesn't need to be the most successful.

Nibali has probably been close to the most successful rider of recent years but especially since he stopped being relevant for 80% of the season, he is IMO quite far from claiming the honours of being the best, ability-wise, rider in the peloton.

To me, that's Sagan because he can win on so much different terrain and he is always the reference point of any race he rides (with the recent Worlds as a very rare exception).

I don't discount Nibali cause in the biggest races he really does bring it everywhere he can. Minor stage races are the least relevant for me if we're talking best rider in the world. Now this year Nibali is kinda nowhere but if he say podiums Tour and Worlds he's up there.

Best 3 riders of the year are Froome, Dumoulin and Yates for me.


What if Valverde wins Lombardia?
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Re:

04 Oct 2018 19:15

Red Rick wrote:I don't really think there's any 'best rider' in the peloton right now. But if I'm forced to choose, I'm definitely leaning toward Dumoulin.

Dumoulin, Sagan, Froomey, Valverde - comes down to who you like the best I think. Then you have Thomas, Yates, Greg etc.
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04 Oct 2018 20:15

Well in recent times I haven't seen much riders who did 2 GT's (both on podium) + WC TTT, ITT and RR (2x on podium and 4th) so that makes it one of the best riders in this season. But you can't say the best, because it's missing the win. With a bit better judgment in tactics and a shade more luck he could've won at least 2 of them

For me the best rider was Valverde because he did 2 GT's in a row, while also contending for the win in 1, and actually winning the worlds straight after. Plus ofcourse a **** load of wins in the spring.
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Re: Re:

04 Oct 2018 20:34

tobydawq wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
tobydawq wrote:I was just going by Red Rick's admission that the best rider doesn't need to be the most successful.

Nibali has probably been close to the most successful rider of recent years but especially since he stopped being relevant for 80% of the season, he is IMO quite far from claiming the honours of being the best, ability-wise, rider in the peloton.

To me, that's Sagan because he can win on so much different terrain and he is always the reference point of any race he rides (with the recent Worlds as a very rare exception).

I don't discount Nibali cause in the biggest races he really does bring it everywhere he can. Minor stage races are the least relevant for me if we're talking best rider in the world. Now this year Nibali is kinda nowhere but if he say podiums Tour and Worlds he's up there.

Best 3 riders of the year are Froome, Dumoulin and Yates for me.


What if Valverde wins Lombardia?

Then he takes it for me
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Re: Re:

04 Oct 2018 20:48

Red Rick wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:Yeah Nibali won all GT's + monuments like MSR and Lombardy.

Froome is more of a, sorry to say, 1 trick pony. His wins at GT's and stage races only. And he didn't even do a solid top 10 in a one day race that matters

Never mind solid top 10s, does he even have any top 10s in one day road races?

2007:
8th, Tour du Doubs (1.1)
2008:
3rd, Giro dell'Appennino (1.1)
2009:
4th, National Championships Great Britain R.R.
9th, GP Nobili Rubinetterie - Borgomanero (1.1)

As far as I can tell, none since then.
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Re: Re:

05 Oct 2018 07:11

shalgo wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:Yeah Nibali won all GT's + monuments like MSR and Lombardy.

Froome is more of a, sorry to say, 1 trick pony. His wins at GT's and stage races only. And he didn't even do a solid top 10 in a one day race that matters

Never mind solid top 10s, does he even have any top 10s in one day road races?

2007:
8th, Tour du Doubs (1.1)
2008:
3rd, Giro dell'Appennino (1.1)
2009:
4th, National Championships Great Britain R.R.
9th, GP Nobili Rubinetterie - Borgomanero (1.1)

As far as I can tell, none since then.


Then in 2011 he realized he sucks at one day races and decided to win the Tour de France.
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Re: Re:

05 Oct 2018 07:35

King Of The Wolds wrote:
tobydawq wrote:
Red Rick wrote:Best doesn't equate to most succesful.


True. Which is why Sagan beyond doubt has been the best rider for the last many years.


If there's a rider around who, in the previous 4 years, has won 3 Tours, a Giro and a Vuelta, in addition to a couple of other GT podiums, by default, they're pretty much the world's best rider, almost regardless of the results of any other rider and how much they're disliked on this forum. That's pretty legendary form, almost for any era. Hell, just a few months ago, he held all GT titles simultaneously.


No, if there's a rider who won 3 WC, 2 Monuments, 3 big classics, EC, 3 Green Jersey's and a ton of other races.
And also a rider who won WC, 2 Monuments, 3 big classics, 3 big stage races, podium 2 GT's and also won ton of other races.
Seriously, Froome is maybe the best rider of the last 4-5 years, but Sagan and Valverde aren't that far from him. And I reckon that three are also the best riders currently.
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

05 Oct 2018 12:51

Gigs_98 wrote:A season full of 2nd places and a 4th place in the only one where a top 3 would have been a success. Very unlucky season for him but nonetheless he again established himself as one of the undoubtedly strongest cyclists of the year.


3rd in Worlds greater than 2nd at Tour? Not sure where that logic is from.

I remember podium of 2017 tour, can't remember who was 3rd behind Sagan at Worlds that year though.
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05 Oct 2018 12:51

Tour only GT for Tommy D? What we know about the Giro he'd be better there.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-to-target-tour-de-france-in-2019/
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Re:

05 Oct 2018 12:53

Robert5091 wrote:Tour only GT for Tommy D? What we know about the Giro he'd be better there.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-to-target-tour-de-france-in-2019/


He is one of the best two Grand Tour GC guys at the moment, he has to target the Tour, I think he is the favourite.
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

05 Oct 2018 12:57

del1962 wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:A season full of 2nd places and a 4th place in the only one where a top 3 would have been a success. Very unlucky season for him but nonetheless he again established himself as one of the undoubtedly strongest cyclists of the year.


3rd in Worlds greater than 2nd at Tour? Not sure where that logic is from.

I have no idea how you come to that interpretation.

Robert5091 wrote:Tour only GT for Tommy D? What we know about the Giro he'd be better there.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-dumoulin-to-target-tour-de-france-in-2019/

This all based on the Dutch interview that's discussed on the previous page.

We can only guess what he means by his comment about the routes, cause from every rumor I've seen the Giro route will be pitch perfect for him while the Tour will be bad. Again.
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Re: Re:

05 Oct 2018 13:04

Blanco wrote:
King Of The Wolds wrote:
tobydawq wrote:
Red Rick wrote:Best doesn't equate to most succesful.


True. Which is why Sagan beyond doubt has been the best rider for the last many years.


If there's a rider around who, in the previous 4 years, has won 3 Tours, a Giro and a Vuelta, in addition to a couple of other GT podiums, by default, they're pretty much the world's best rider, almost regardless of the results of any other rider and how much they're disliked on this forum. That's pretty legendary form, almost for any era. Hell, just a few months ago, he held all GT titles simultaneously.


No, if there's a rider who won 3 WC, 2 Monuments, 3 big classics, EC, 3 Green Jersey's and a ton of other races.
And also a rider who won WC, 2 Monuments, 3 big classics, 3 big stage races, podium 2 GT's and also won ton of other races.
Seriously, Froome is maybe the best rider of the last 4-5 years, but Sagan and Valverde aren't that far from him. And I reckon that three are also the best riders currently.


Last five years? 2 GT and 3 Monuments plus another 2 GT podiums not bad either.
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Re: Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

05 Oct 2018 13:45

Red Rick wrote:
del1962 wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:A season full of 2nd places and a 4th place in the only one where a top 3 would have been a success. Very unlucky season for him but nonetheless he again established himself as one of the undoubtedly strongest cyclists of the year.


3rd in Worlds greater than 2nd at Tour? Not sure where that logic is from.

I have no idea how you come to that interpretation.


The original post says the worlds RR is the only one where a top 3 is a success implying that top 3 achieved in the tour could not be considered a success
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08 Oct 2018 20:13

Dumoulin to hold a press conference tomorrow.
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