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The Caleb Ewan vs. Fernando Gaviria Thread

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12 May 2017 18:21

Well, better to avoid this thread for the next 10 years
kingjr
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Re: Re:

12 May 2017 18:23

Vroome.exe wrote:
Jspear wrote:
Vroome.exe wrote:So after Gaviria made some kamikaze moves in the sprint and came like a rocket, he says he didn't have the legs today. Lol, how would it look like if he had those.


That's just an excuse. :)
He had the legs. Obviously there's more than just strong legs in a sprint.


I wouldn't call it excuse, he said that Ewan was the strongest and deserved to win. I like how they all show big respect between each other.

This is actually the best part of it. Gaviria and Ewan (and Greipel and Kittel) have for the most part been very respectful with each other and (hopefully) that is rubbing off in us, the fans. I love Cav, but that "sprinters must be killers/a**holes, its their nature" attitude I would love to age out
User avatar gospina
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Re: Re:

12 May 2017 18:26

gospina wrote:
Vroome.exe wrote:
Jspear wrote:
Vroome.exe wrote:So after Gaviria made some kamikaze moves in the sprint and came like a rocket, he says he didn't have the legs today. Lol, how would it look like if he had those.


That's just an excuse. :)
He had the legs. Obviously there's more than just strong legs in a sprint.


I wouldn't call it excuse, he said that Ewan was the strongest and deserved to win. I like how they all show big respect between each other.

This is actually the best part of it. Gaviria and Ewan (and Greipel and Kittel) have for the most part been very respectful with each other and (hopefully) that is rubbing off in us, the fans. I love Cav, but that "sprinters must be killers/a**holes, its their nature" attitude I would love to age out

I don't particularly like sprinters, actually not at all in general, but I think trashtalking between sprinters (and everyone else for that matter) is kinda nice. Well, maybe not nice, but entertaining at least. Not saying they need to be aholes, but you have to be made out of something special to do the crazy **** they sometimes are doing.
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User avatar Valv.Piti
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12 May 2017 18:38

I see Ewan has more fans than I thought.

The fans discussion is more heated than the actual riders comments!!! LOL.
User avatar Escarabajo
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12 May 2017 19:22

Two young riders both just 22 years old. By the time their careers' end this could be looked back upon as the greatest ever duel of sprinters in the history of road cycling. I hope they both stay fit and healthy for the next 10 years. It will also add spice to the early stages of GTs when we are all just eagerly waiting for the first MTF. Chapeau!
Cookster15
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Re: Re:

12 May 2017 21:33

gospina wrote:
Vroome.exe wrote:
Jspear wrote:
Vroome.exe wrote:So after Gaviria made some kamikaze moves in the sprint and came like a rocket, he says he didn't have the legs today. Lol, how would it look like if he had those.


That's just an excuse. :)
He had the legs. Obviously there's more than just strong legs in a sprint.


I wouldn't call it excuse, he said that Ewan was the strongest and deserved to win. I like how they all show big respect between each other.

This is actually the best part of it. Gaviria and Ewan (and Greipel and Kittel) have for the most part been very respectful with each other and (hopefully) that is rubbing off in us, the fans. I love Cav, but that "sprinters must be killers/a**holes, its their nature" attitude I would love to age out

I enjoy it as well. The excuses made in the past for the likes of McEwen, Steels, Brown and Cav have been sickening at times. Refreshing to get to see a respectful rivalry.

Also, I tipped these two to get the better of Greipel this Giro, so happy to be proven right. I love watching these two in a sprint!
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12 May 2017 21:47

Teeeeechnically I'd say Greipel and Ewan are even... :p
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13 May 2017 00:13

Strangely enough this giro the sprints have been the battle of teams.
IndianCyclist
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13 May 2017 00:42

Anyone agree that Ewan has a (bad) habit of pulling up before the line. Obvious case earlier in the year where Kittel went straight past him while he was celebrating and even yesterday I'm sure he eased off early and just won. I wouldn't be risking 5 hours of hard work by my team for 0.5s less pain. Thought he would have learnt his lesson already.
antlowes
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13 May 2017 00:44

I'm calling it, it's no longer a big three.

Both Gav and Ewan have arrived. It's a big five.
User avatar The Hegelian
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Re:

13 May 2017 01:52

The Hegelian wrote:I'm calling it, it's no longer a big three.

Both Gav and Ewan have arrived. It's a big five.


Nah not yet. Kittel in top form is still a step above them. Even Cav is. Of course they're close and can be competitive.
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User avatar Jspear
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Re: Re:

13 May 2017 04:33

Jspear wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:I'm calling it, it's no longer a big three.

Both Gav and Ewan have arrived. It's a big five.


Nah not yet. Kittel in top form is still a step above them. Even Cav is. Of course they're close and can be competitive.

Well, Cav is 1-6 against Gav so I don't know about that. I think it's really close to a 5 man group, with Kittel being a step above when at his best.
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Re: Re:

13 May 2017 06:05

jaylew wrote:
Jspear wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:I'm calling it, it's no longer a big three.

Both Gav and Ewan have arrived. It's a big five.


Nah not yet. Kittel in top form is still a step above them. Even Cav is. Of course they're close and can be competitive.

Well, Cav is 1-6 against Gav so I don't know about that. I think it's really close to a 5 man group, with Kittel being a step above when at his best.


Until we are in the situation of having them all racing head to head against each other in the same GT in peak season; its frankly a little premature.
dirkprovin
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Re: Re:

13 May 2017 07:52

jaylew wrote:
Jspear wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:I'm calling it, it's no longer a big three.

Both Gav and Ewan have arrived. It's a big five.


Nah not yet. Kittel in top form is still a step above them. Even Cav is. Of course they're close and can be competitive.

Well, Cav is 1-6 against Gav so I don't know about that. I think it's really close to a 5 man group, with Kittel being a step above when at his best.

Cavendish proved last year in the Tour de France that, when he is good, he is still the very best. Very big context in their H2H statistics.
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Re: Re:

13 May 2017 08:27

Jspear wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:I'm calling it, it's no longer a big three.

Both Gav and Ewan have arrived. It's a big five.


Nah not yet. Kittel in top form is still a step above them. Even Cav is. Of course they're close and can be competitive.

I have to agree. I have it as:

Kittel
Cav
Gaviria, Greipel, Ewan, Viviani
Sagan*
Bouhanni, Démare

But all are capable of beating the others on their day.

*In a pure, flat bunch sprint only.
User avatar 42x16ss
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13 May 2017 08:36

To my layman's eye it looked as if Caleb Ewan stopped pedalling short of the line.
Gaviria was sitting behind the hulk Greipel till he launched. I watched the finish several times looking at their positioning and could not see Gavaria, the only one that wasn't obvious, till he launched. He obviously had a 'easy' run-in gambling on his sprint but didn't account for slowing, shifting lead-out riders.
markjohnconley
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Re: Re:

13 May 2017 08:48

42x16ss wrote:
Jspear wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:I'm calling it, it's no longer a big three.

Both Gav and Ewan have arrived. It's a big five.


Nah not yet. Kittel in top form is still a step above them. Even Cav is. Of course they're close and can be competitive.

I have to agree. I have it as:

Kittel
Cav
Gaviria, Greipel, Ewan, Viviani
Sagan*
Bouhanni, Démare

But all are capable of beating the others on their day.

*In a pure, flat bunch sprint only.

Why is Viviani so high?
User avatar Alexandre B.
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Re: Re:

13 May 2017 10:32

Alexandre B. wrote:
42x16ss wrote:
Jspear wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:I'm calling it, it's no longer a big three.

Both Gav and Ewan have arrived. It's a big five.


Nah not yet. Kittel in top form is still a step above them. Even Cav is. Of course they're close and can be competitive.

I have to agree. I have it as:

Kittel
Cav
Gaviria, Greipel, Ewan, Viviani
Sagan*
Bouhanni, Démare

But all are capable of beating the others on their day.

*In a pure, flat bunch sprint only.

Why is Viviani so high?


In peak form he's pretty decent...That said I might put him down one spot. Still he's very fast.
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User avatar Jspear
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14 May 2017 01:57

Well earlier in the season in the mid-east, Ewan was = with the big three. Won one, could have won two.

And of course we all say 'jeez, he's super quick now, but okay, let's wait until a GT when everyone is in form.'

Okay - well it is a GT, in the heart of season and I think both Gaviria and Ewan are/were going a touch quicker than Greipal. Could be that the Gorilla has a lost a tiny bit of top end speed, but more plausible that the two young guns have arrived. Interesting to note Bennett and Groenewegen knocking on the door too.

I'd agree that on a tdf early flat stage, Kittel is still favourite. But the other four are even in my book.

So I'd go:
Kittel
Cav, Gav, Ewan, Greipal
Sagan, Bouhanni, Demare, Bennett, Groenewegen, Vivianni, Degenkolb, Kristoff.
User avatar The Hegelian
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Re:

14 May 2017 07:13

The Hegelian wrote:Well earlier in the season in the mid-east, Ewan was = with the big three. Won one, could have won two.

And of course we all say 'jeez, he's super quick now, but okay, let's wait until a GT when everyone is in form.'

Okay - well it is a GT, in the heart of season and I think both Gaviria and Ewan are/were going a touch quicker than Greipal. Could be that the Gorilla has a lost a tiny bit of top end speed, but more plausible that the two young guns have arrived. Interesting to note Bennett and Groenewegen knocking on the door too.

I'd agree that on a tdf early flat stage, Kittel is still favourite. But the other four are even in my book.

So I'd go:
Kittel
Cav, Gav, Ewan, Greipal
Sagan, Bouhanni, Demare, Bennett, Groenewegen, Vivianni, Degenkolb, Kristoff.


With due respect, when are we realistically going to have the opportunity to see all of them head to head ? QS aren't going to send both Kittel & Gav to the TDF; ORS sure as hell aren't sending Ewan; maybe 3/4 of those listed may go but maybe not. How well supported they may be is also pivotal

In any case, any such ranking hinges around the specific terms of reference you choose to set. A pure flat sprint may have one outcome; just tweak it a little and its somewhat different; ask "who is/are the most competitive over the widest variety of finishes and most likely your outcome is turned on its head.
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