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The Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping Thread

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Re: Re:

06 Sep 2018 07:43

spalco wrote:
tobydawq wrote:No.


Well, yeah it does. But the context is different. If you can't take the heat in the sprint, you don't have to be there.
The reason Moscon's punch or slap or whatever you'd call it was worse is, that it was so out of the blue.


People don't hit each other like that in a sprint - if they do they are out of the race...
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06 Sep 2018 07:50

Not like that, but physical violence happens, often with really bad consequences.

I'm not excusing Moscon at all; I called for his expulsion at the time and my opinion hasn't changed.
But if you look the level of violence and the danger of what he did outside of context, then it wasn't as bad as some other things that happen in cycling.

I would just describe what he did more as unsportsmanlike than as assault, which I don't consider trivialization.
Like, I would say it's more offensive to spit in somebody's face than to push him away, although the former isn't immediately dangerous.

It's also discouraging that he seemed to have learned nothing.
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Re: Re:

06 Sep 2018 08:49

Nirvana wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
mosh1992 wrote:I can't believe people still defend this awful human being, for me any racist incident should result in lifetime ban if he does not show any intention of changing, which he hasn't.

Which is your opinion and you’re welcome to it, but it doesn’t. He served his “punishment” and he should be treated the same as any other rider. In this incident, I don’t think he was.

If you have an "history" of various incident that should be taken in account when you are punished, just like the regular justice work, and not admitting your previous wrongdoing aggravates the situation.
If next year he'll have another issue he should be suspended for months even if the actual fact doesn't require such a harsh punishment otherwise he'll never understand.

Anyway what makes me wonder is that he continuously states that the team fully support him when he should have fired him immediately as they said last spring after Reza racial abuse. Well, also Cassani seems to underrate the problem considering the he could even end up leading Italy in both TT and RR in Insbruck.


I think we're talking about two different things. You're talking about how he should be punished if found guilty, I'm talking about whether he should have been found guilty in the first place. In terms of punishments he has no history of violence in the peloton, the case against him was dropped.Other incidents should not be taken into account when finding a rider guilty of breaking a rule and only similar incidents should be taken into account when handing out punishments.

In this specific case I think Gianni was unfairly treated.
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Re: Re:

06 Sep 2018 22:00

King Boonen wrote:
Nirvana wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
mosh1992 wrote:I can't believe people still defend this awful human being, for me any racist incident should result in lifetime ban if he does not show any intention of changing, which he hasn't.

Which is your opinion and you’re welcome to it, but it doesn’t. He served his “punishment” and he should be treated the same as any other rider. In this incident, I don’t think he was.

If you have an "history" of various incident that should be taken in account when you are punished, just like the regular justice work, and not admitting your previous wrongdoing aggravates the situation.
If next year he'll have another issue he should be suspended for months even if the actual fact doesn't require such a harsh punishment otherwise he'll never understand.

Anyway what makes me wonder is that he continuously states that the team fully support him when he should have fired him immediately as they said last spring after Reza racial abuse. Well, also Cassani seems to underrate the problem considering the he could even end up leading Italy in both TT and RR in Insbruck.


I think we're talking about two different things. You're talking about how he should be punished if found guilty, I'm talking about whether he should have been found guilty in the first place. In terms of punishments he has no history of violence in the peloton, the case against him was dropped.Other incidents should not be taken into account when finding a rider guilty of breaking a rule and only similar incidents should be taken into account when handing out punishments.

In this specific case I think Gianni was unfairly treated.

Well the case of Reichembach was dropped only because both took at the auction witnesses that defended them so was impossible to prove what he has done without a video evidence, but even Fondriest that is one very close to Moscon, when interviewed at "Sui pedali magazine", said that even if Moscon denied was hard to believe because other riders with whom he talked told to him a different story about that incident.

Anyway in the case of the Tour even if didn't hit Gesbert (it's difficult to understand from the footage) the intention of hitting him was clear and was very dangerous in this exact moment, just imagine if he hit him and caused a crash in the front of the peloton launched at full speed.

I don't say that should be banned for life like the other user but a suspension was needed, Sky should have fired him and Cassani should have excluded him from WC squad. In this way, supported by both his team and national federation, it's clear that he didn't understand his mistakes.
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Re: Re:

07 Sep 2018 08:34

Nirvana wrote:Well the case of Reichembach was dropped only because both took at the auction witnesses that defended them so was impossible to prove what he has done without a video evidence, but even Fondriest that is one very close to Moscon, when interviewed at "Sui pedali magazine", said that even if Moscon denied was hard to believe because other riders with whom he talked told to him a different story about that incident.

Anyway in the case of the Tour even if didn't hit Gesbert (it's difficult to understand from the footage) the intention of hitting him was clear and was very dangerous in this exact moment, just imagine if he hit him and caused a crash in the front of the peloton launched at full speed.

I don't say that should be banned for life like the other user but a suspension was needed, Sky should have fired him and Cassani should have excluded him from WC squad. In this way, supported by both his team and national federation, it's clear that he didn't understand his mistakes.


But it was dropped and that means it can't be used as a reason to give him harsher punishments, that's just the way the system has to work.

It's your opinion that the intention was clear, and that it clearly the prevailing opinion. I don't think it was and I'm also of the opinion that it's likely that sort of thing happens many times in a single stage. I think the expulsion was harsh, but I could be brought round to thinking that it's fair, but suggestions of additional punishments are definitely harsh in my opinion. Had he caused a crash it would have been different, but in this case people are assuming they know the intention and that's not a good way to decide anything.
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15 Sep 2018 15:05

Let his legs do the talking today, good win
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Re:

15 Sep 2018 23:19

MatParker117 wrote:Let his legs do the talking today, good win

Really hope Gianni can improve on his 3rd place at last years Il Lombardia.
A win there would be massive for Gianni and of course for the team as well.
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Re:

16 Sep 2018 04:23

MatParker117 wrote:Let his legs do the talking today, good win


I don't think the problems have been leg related. But a good win all the same.
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16 Sep 2018 05:46

I think he'll have a free role in Innsbruck, considering Nibali's struggles. Perhaps the route is too hard for him, but you never know.
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Re:

16 Sep 2018 07:08

SafeBet wrote:I think he'll have a free role in Innsbruck, considering Nibali's struggles. Perhaps the route is too hard for him, but you never know.


I think Nibali will be fine. Strict training mode in the Vuelta, he wasn't pushing too hard. Hard to tell with Porte but I expected him to try something in the final week and he didn't.
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16 Sep 2018 12:49

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Re:

17 Sep 2018 21:20

SafeBet wrote:I think he'll have a free role in Innsbruck, considering Nibali's struggles. Perhaps the route is too hard for him, but you never know.

Well, if anybody should know the roads in Innsbruck it should be Gianni, seeing that's where he lives.
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18 Sep 2018 07:31

He might know the roads, but it's a very demanding route. Cassani believes he has a chance. I'm a bit skeptical but Cassani knows cycling much better than me so...
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Re:

18 Sep 2018 08:03

SafeBet wrote:He might know the roads, but it's a very demanding route. Cassani believes he has a chance. I'm a bit skeptical but Cassani knows cycling much better than me so...

Maybe, but GvA won in Rio so everything can happen
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19 Sep 2018 14:59

And another one.
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19 Sep 2018 17:05

Can't imagine how mad some people in the forum must be. The guy is crazy but an incredible talent.
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19 Sep 2018 19:37

He came 3rd in last year's Lombardia which I think suggests he is physically capable. So if he's on form he should be a chance on this Worlds course.
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Re:

19 Sep 2018 19:47

franic wrote:Can't imagine how mad some people in the forum must be. The guy is crazy but an incredible talent.


I don’t think that any of the many people who think he is scum are unaware that he is a hugely gifted cyclist.
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19 Sep 2018 20:05

Seeing him in the rainbow jersey is slowly becoming my wet dream :D
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Re:

19 Sep 2018 20:14

Pippo_San wrote:Seeing him in the rainbow jersey is slowly becoming my wet dream :D

If 'wet' means 'makes me want to sink to the bottom of the ocean' then yes.
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