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Cannondale-Drapac

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

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17 May 2017 15:59

I'm not even excited when watching cycling anymore because I know Cannondale won't win a thing.
Wij steunen hem, tenzij hij niet genoeg fietst.
Anderis
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17 May 2017 17:18

They could have selected a random poster from CN who most likely would have been doing a better job than Dombrowski so far.
"This is the Tour that will determine If I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
User avatar Valv.Piti
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17 May 2017 19:16

Cannondale got it right today - Good ride by Rolland.
yaco
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Re: Cannondale-Drapac

19 May 2017 07:19

2 years, and the wait is finally over!
Davesta
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20 May 2017 19:18

Tour of California is a faux WT race. Of course if the UCI makes every race a WT race no matter if all WT teams are even attending, Cannondale was bound to win something.
hazaran
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Re:

21 May 2017 17:24

hazaran wrote:Tour of California is a faux WT race. Of course if the UCI makes every race a WT race no matter if all WT teams are even attending, Cannondale was bound to win something.


No more than the Tour of Poland, Turkey, Denmark or any other race not on the level of competition of the ones where every top rider makes an appearance.
User avatar perico
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24 May 2017 15:57

Funny how this thread is usually quiet when something goes well for Cannondale.

Will teams like AG2R be getting as much mockery for not taking WT wins as Cannondale? They only have as many last 1,5 years considered.
Wij steunen hem, tenzij hij niet genoeg fietst.
Anderis
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24 May 2017 16:19

They're French so luckily they couldn't care less! :D
User avatar staubsauger
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24 May 2017 16:29

Really happy for Rolland and Cannondale today, after trying so hard the last few days, and since the whole "no WT win"-thing got really annoying - especially since their win in Cali apparently didn't count all of a sudden. :)

What do people think of Formolo's chances for a Top 10? He was climbing really well the last days, but the last ITT is obviously a problem for him.
8 Bob Jungels (Lux) Quick-Step Floors 0:04:35
9 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 0:06:20
10 Jan Polanc (Slo) UAE Team Emirates 0:06:33
11 Adam Yates (GBr) Orica-Scott 0:07:00
12 Maxime Monfort (Bel) Lotto Soudal 0:07:16
13 Davide Formolo (Ita) Cannondale-Drapac 0:07:17
davebqvst
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24 May 2017 16:34

He has a decent enough chance. Monfort and Polanc will be gone soon, and Yates isn't great against the clock so he has a chance
Brullnux
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24 May 2017 16:46

Formolo might end up 11th, I'm afraid. Kruijswijk doesn't seem to be in great shape and Polanc is definetely catchable, but I can't see many chances for Davide to jump above Yates or Jungels. He lost around 1 minute more than I expected him in the first ITT and that is hurting his chances a lot. I expect him to lose another minute or so any guy high in GC and certainly more than that to Jungels in the final ITT. For some reason Cannondale GC guys are TT-ing horribly in the last 2 years, apart from Talansky.

Of course someone might crash out (hopefully not) or completely collapse and then top10 will be a good possibility.
Wij steunen hem, tenzij hij niet genoeg fietst.
Anderis
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Re:

24 May 2017 17:25

Anderis wrote:Formolo might end up 11th, I'm afraid. Kruijswijk doesn't seem to be in great shape and Polanc is definetely catchable, but I can't see many chances for Davide to jump above Yates or Jungels. He lost around 1 minute more than I expected him in the first ITT and that is hurting his chances a lot. I expect him to lose another minute or so any guy high in GC and certainly more than that to Jungels in the final ITT. For some reason Cannondale GC guys are TT-ing horribly in the last 2 years, apart from Talansky.

Of course someone might crash out (hopefully not) or completely collapse and then top10 will be a good possibility.


Chances are someone of the top 13, as well as the two breakaway fluke guys, will pop badly over the next two stages but it's as likely to be Formolo as anyone else.
Zinoviev Letter
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24 May 2017 22:24

Controversial opinion: Despite last year being essentially a write off and an unwise comment about old fashioned training methods, Vaughters actually knows what he is doing with Rolland. There were reasons for Rolland to try to develop into a GC guy, both because it's a more lucrative career and because it's a disadvantage to be a stagehunter without a sprint. But in fact he's better off concentrating on getting better at reading a race and picking both his break and his moment to attack than he is trying endlessly to gain a consistency and a TT ability he will never have. If he times it right, Rolland should reasonably expect to be the strongest climber in a break that's likely to succeed twice per GT.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re:

24 May 2017 23:02

Zinoviev Letter wrote:Controversial opinion: Despite last year being essentially a write off and an unwise comment about old fashioned training methods, Vaughters actually knows what he is doing with Rolland. There were reasons for Rolland to try to develop into a GC guy, both because it's a more lucrative career and because it's a disadvantage to be a stagehunter without a sprint. But in fact he's better off concentrating on getting better at reading a race and picking both his break and his moment to attack than he is trying endlessly to gain a consistency and a TT ability he will never have. If he times it right, Rolland should reasonably expect to be the strongest climber in a break that's likely to succeed twice per GT.

Rolland WAS a gc rider before he went to Vaughters. He managed to get 4th in the Giro with his attacking style. At the Tour he always lost significant time because of his weak tt yes, but mainly in the first week due to crashes etc. Nevertheless he won two major mountain stages and the white jersey.

Since joining Vaughtets and his fantastic training skills he needs like 4 breakaways to finally beat some mediocre climbers. Vaughters is an incompetent goof that ain't got no clue about anything that's relevant in cycling. Tinkov was 1000% right about him.

Hopefully Rolland rejoins Bernadeu next season and concentrates on stage wins and the polka dot jersey there. A return to the Giro, if possible,might always be fruitful for a rider with his skills of course.

So I certainly agree with your conclusion of course.
Last edited by staubsauger on 24 May 2017 23:26, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar staubsauger
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Re:

24 May 2017 23:11

staubsauger wrote:They're French so luckily they couldn't care less! :D


And if you just put the time frame to 2 years, that count goes up to 6 and they finished 2nd in the Tour like 10 months ago, their amount of success is not even comparable. Also, who counts California as a WT race for real, it really become a joke race in recent years.
burning
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Re: Re:

24 May 2017 23:53

staubsauger wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:Controversial opinion: Despite last year being essentially a write off and an unwise comment about old fashioned training methods, Vaughters actually knows what he is doing with Rolland. There were reasons for Rolland to try to develop into a GC guy, both because it's a more lucrative career and because it's a disadvantage to be a stagehunter without a sprint. But in fact he's better off concentrating on getting better at reading a race and picking both his break and his moment to attack than he is trying endlessly to gain a consistency and a TT ability he will never have. If he times it right, Rolland should reasonably expect to be the strongest climber in a break that's likely to succeed twice per GT.

Rolland WAS a gc rider before he went to Vaughters. He managed to get 4th in the Giro with his attacking style. At the Tour he always lost significant time because of his weak tt yes, but mainly in the first week due to crashes etc. Nevertheless he won two major mountain stages and the white jersey.

Since joining Vaughtets and his fantastic training skills he needs like 4 breakaways to finally beat some mediocre climbers. Vaughters is an incompetent goof that ain't got no clue about anything that's relevant in cycling. Tinkov was 1000% right about him.

Hopefully Rolland rejoins Bernadeu next season and concentrates on stage wins and the polka dot jersey there. A return to the Giro, if possible,might always be fruitful for a rider with his skills of course.

So I certainly agree with your conclusion of course.


Rolland was a GC man, but a distinctly limited one. He was the kind of guy who finishes 16th when he's going badly, 8th when he's going very well. His one better than 8th result in his 12 GTs, 4th in Giro 2014 but nowhere near contesting the win, was an outlier that in retrospect mostly served to wrongly encourage him to stay on the GC track.

His only wins since his Tour stage glory days four years before joining Cannondale were a couple of very minor stage races (Sarthe and Castille y Leon). He did have a bad year last year, but really not all that much worse than his preceding not all that great years. Much of the difference between the preceding pretty bad years and that very bad year came down to him repeatedly crashing.

This year he has already had his best season since 2012 even though we are less than halfway through it. It's customary to blame Vaughters every time a Cannondale rider does badly, so it seems only fair to give him some credit when a rider there does well, particularly one he now coaches. If Rolland picks up another WT win this year - and I think he's likely to - it will be not just the best season of his last five years, but his best season all career.

As for Vaughters, I will confess that I have some difficulty how someone who for years kept one of the small budget WT teams punching well above their weight in terms of wins should be considered an idiot who knows nothing about cycling because he couldn't do that for two years. The only way he could reasonably be considered that is if you swallow his hype about his newly signed riders and then wonder what went wrong with the alleged world beaters he got on the cheap. Tinkov, by contrast, is a rich fool who tried and failed to buy the Tour and then sulked and took his ball home.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re: Re:

25 May 2017 05:32

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
staubsauger wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:Controversial opinion: Despite last year being essentially a write off and an unwise comment about old fashioned training methods, Vaughters actually knows what he is doing with Rolland. There were reasons for Rolland to try to develop into a GC guy, both because it's a more lucrative career and because it's a disadvantage to be a stagehunter without a sprint. But in fact he's better off concentrating on getting better at reading a race and picking both his break and his moment to attack than he is trying endlessly to gain a consistency and a TT ability he will never have. If he times it right, Rolland should reasonably expect to be the strongest climber in a break that's likely to succeed twice per GT.

Rolland WAS a gc rider before he went to Vaughters. He managed to get 4th in the Giro with his attacking style. At the Tour he always lost significant time because of his weak tt yes, but mainly in the first week due to crashes etc. Nevertheless he won two major mountain stages and the white jersey.

Since joining Vaughtets and his fantastic training skills he needs like 4 breakaways to finally beat some mediocre climbers. Vaughters is an incompetent goof that ain't got no clue about anything that's relevant in cycling. Tinkov was 1000% right about him.

Hopefully Rolland rejoins Bernadeu next season and concentrates on stage wins and the polka dot jersey there. A return to the Giro, if possible,might always be fruitful for a rider with his skills of course.

So I certainly agree with your conclusion of course.


As for Vaughters, I will confess that I have some difficulty how someone who for years kept one of the small budget WT teams punching well above their weight in terms of wins should be considered an idiot who knows nothing about cycling because he couldn't do that for two years. The only way he could reasonably be considered that is if you swallow his hype about his newly signed riders and then wonder what went wrong with the alleged world beaters he got on the cheap. Tinkov, by contrast, is a rich fool who tried and failed to buy the Tour and then sulked and took his ball home.

Exactly. Tinkoff criticizing anyone is a joke.
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25 May 2017 07:54

I'd say Formolo's chances to get a top10 depend largely on Mollema's recovery. He's the likeliest to have a really bad day among the ones currently ahead of Formolo.
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Re: Re:

25 May 2017 08:50

staubsauger wrote:Hopefully Rolland rejoins Bernadeu next season and concentrates on stage wins and the polka dot jersey there.

I have to disappoint you but PCS states that he is staying for 2018.

Zinoviev Letter wrote:He did have a bad year last year, but really not all that much worse than his preceding not all that great years.

I don't even think Rolland's 2016 was that bad. He didn't have any stand-out results but his level in WT races was more consistent than ever. His tyre exploding on the descend on TdF's stage 8 was a big blow for his confidence (I think he only struggles on descends so much since then) so he wasn't great in that Tour and that made a big difference to how was his season perceived.

I find saying that Vaughters has no clue about anything that's relevant in cycling pathetic. His team won 3 monuments and a GT. BMC for example only won 1 monument and 1 GT at the same time despite having budget at least twice as big on average for all those years. For 2017 he has the smallest budget in WT but there are still teams out there with worse results and Cannondale even manages to outnumber the best teams at the end of a big race not so rarely. And lack of WT wins in 2016 was nothing more than shi**y luck that's blown out of proportion. People sometimes underestimate how circumstancial cycling can be.
Wij steunen hem, tenzij hij niet genoeg fietst.
Anderis
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Re: Re:

25 May 2017 10:31

Anderis wrote:
staubsauger wrote:Hopefully Rolland rejoins Bernadeu next season and concentrates on stage wins and the polka dot jersey there.

I have to disappoint you but PCS states that he is staying for 2018.

Zinoviev Letter wrote:He did have a bad year last year, but really not all that much worse than his preceding not all that great years.

I don't even think Rolland's 2016 was that bad. He didn't have any stand-out results but his level in WT races was more consistent than ever. His tyre exploding on the descend on TdF's stage 8 was a big blow for his confidence (I think he only struggles on descends so much since then) so he wasn't great in that Tour and that made a big difference to how was his season perceived.

I find saying that Vaughters has no clue about anything that's relevant in cycling pathetic. His team won 3 monuments and a GT. BMC for example only won 1 monument and 1 GT at the same time despite having budget at least twice as big on average for all those years. For 2017 he has the smallest budget in WT but there are still teams out there with worse results and Cannondale even manages to outnumber the best teams at the end of a big race not so rarely. And lack of WT wins in 2016 was nothing more than shi**y luck that's blown out of proportion. People sometimes underestimate how circumstancial cycling can be.


I'm not sure that comparison with BMC is entirely fair.
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