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Cannondale-Drapac

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20 Mar 2017 19:38

To me this team is a sunk ship, it kills me cause I love the brand (Cannondale) and think there is a lot of talent come into this team over the years, but Vaughters doesn't develop ****. Talent goes to this team to die. When he had Ryder, Danielson etc he had his little group of favourites who were paid well and given leader status regardless of who was or had more potential. Rohan Dennis is a fine example. Always under Danielson or Ryder or even Tolansky and had no major results to his name. He leaves and has only flourished. Other to.

Rolland has gone backwards, Formolo hasn't progressed personally and Im waiting for McCarthy to become Rolland 2.0.

Maybe I am completely wrong here but Vaughters may be a very good business man and talent spotter, but does nothing for development.

My rant is over.
Colonel
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20 Mar 2017 19:57

Yes, JV is good a signing talent, but the team isn't very good at developing them.
He's coaching Dombrowski himself and he seems to be back on track, so maybe JV himself actually knows how to work with a young, pure climber, but the team as a whole doesn't seem to be a great place to develope riders.
Someone like Formolo would a lot of help and guidance when it comes to his TT-skills, he still hasn't found a good positition on the TT-bike that allows him to produce the same kind of wattage that he's able to produce on a roadbike.
I don't like JV, but they've got many talented and likeable riders, I feel bad for them.
User avatar Mayomaniac
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Re:

20 Mar 2017 20:02

Mayomaniac wrote:Yes, JV is good a signing talent, but the team isn't very good at developing them.
He's coaching Dombrowski himself and he seems to be back on track, so maybe JV himself actually knows how to work with a young, pure climber, but the team as a whole doesn't seem to be a great place to develope riders.
Someone like Formolo would a lot of help and guidance when it comes to his TT-skills, he still hasn't found a good positition on the TT-bike that allows him to produce the same kind of wattage that he's able to produce on a roadbike.
I don't like JV, but they've got many talented and likeable riders, I feel bad for them.


Correct, a lot of talented likeable riders you want to back and get behind but thats often where it ends. 1 rider, (Dombrowski) is hardly enough to justify the many that have done worse than before coming onto the team.
Colonel
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Re:

20 Mar 2017 20:24

Colonel wrote:Rohan Dennis is a fine example. Always under Danielson or Ryder or even Tolansky and had no major results to his name. He leaves and has only flourished. Other to.

I don't think it's fair assesment regarding Dennis. He was riding for Garmin only for 1,5 years starting as a neo-pro. It's a normal thing that he didn't manage to reach his peak during this time and continued to develop after. But you can't accuse the team of not giving him chances to ride for himself. He was allowed to ride for GC in 2013 Dauphine (finished 8th overall) and 2014 California (finished 2nd overall and won one stage). He was also a nominated leader for 2014 TdU but failed to meet expectations. That was about as many leadership opportunities as a rider of his age and skillset could get at this level.

I don't think there are many examples of riders leaving Garmin/Cannondale later flourishing in other teams as well.

Colonel wrote:Rolland has gone backwards, Formolo hasn't progressed personally and Im waiting for McCarthy to become Rolland 2.0.

Is it really a right thread for that statement? ;)

There are riders who are developing well at Cannondale. I think Bettiol has exceeded any expectations last year. The problem is that there are many riders who manage to have one good season in this team but they are unable to mantain that level in the following years. Slagter is a great example. What a spring he had in 2014 but has become completely invisible since then. Craddock and Woods really started well last year but seem to be nowhere near it nowadays. Talansky looked like a great prospect in 2012-2013 but he completely has lost any consistency since then. There will happen a period of 2 or 3 months when there are a few riders having the best moments of their career every now and then but the results of the whole team are abysmal every other time. There is something not working regarding training methods in this team. It's a shame, because they used to be great overachievers in not so distant past. But I've read that Cannondale has the smallest budget among WT teams in 2017, so maybe it's not realistic to expect it to be a solid mid WT level team anymore.
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Anderis
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 20:27

Colonel wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:Yes, JV is good a signing talent, but the team isn't very good at developing them.
He's coaching Dombrowski himself and he seems to be back on track, so maybe JV himself actually knows how to work with a young, pure climber, but the team as a whole doesn't seem to be a great place to develope riders.
Someone like Formolo would a lot of help and guidance when it comes to his TT-skills, he still hasn't found a good positition on the TT-bike that allows him to produce the same kind of wattage that he's able to produce on a roadbike.
I don't like JV, but they've got many talented and likeable riders, I feel bad for them.


Correct, a lot of talented likeable riders you want to back and get behind but thats often where it ends. 1 rider, (Dombrowski) is hardly enough to justify the many that have done worse than before coming onto the team.

Yu're right, I just picked him as an example because JV is coaching him, but he really had a horrible start as a neopro at Team Sky.
User avatar Mayomaniac
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 20:33

there are many riders who manage to have one good season in this team but they are unable to mantain that level in the following years. .[/quote][/quote]

Not an attack at you, but this alone makes me rest my case on development and progression in this team.
Colonel
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20 Mar 2017 21:00

I think Cannondale will really light the race up in the GT's with breaks in the hillier and mountainous days. Thats their thing, they have very good climbing depth, but none proved GT-riders apart from Talansky who isn't the most consistent guy around either. I could also see them do very well in second-tier stage races such as Tour of the Alps GC-wise this year. However, they should really stop riding WT-evens with 7-8 climbers in their squad unless its Pais Vasco.

Dombro and Rolland seems focused to Nibali-peak for the Giro, but both would be stupid to ride GC. Formolo is a bit of an unknown still, but can top-10.
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20 Mar 2017 21:04

Intrigued to see how the ones coached by Ken Vanmarcke will go this year? Does anyone know who he all coaches?
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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2017 02:12

Mayomaniac wrote:
Colonel wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:Yes, JV is good a signing talent, but the team isn't very good at developing them.
He's coaching Dombrowski himself and he seems to be back on track, so maybe JV himself actually knows how to work with a young, pure climber, but the team as a whole doesn't seem to be a great place to develope riders.
Someone like Formolo would a lot of help and guidance when it comes to his TT-skills, he still hasn't found a good positition on the TT-bike that allows him to produce the same kind of wattage that he's able to produce on a roadbike.
I don't like JV, but they've got many talented and likeable riders, I feel bad for them.


Correct, a lot of talented likeable riders you want to back and get behind but thats often where it ends. 1 rider, (Dombrowski) is hardly enough to justify the many that have done worse than before coming onto the team.

Yu're right, I just picked him as an example because JV is coaching him, but he really had a horrible start as a neopro at Team Sky.


Wasn't the main reason Dombrowski went nowhere at Sky was due to health issues? Pretty sure he had to have an operation to clear a blocked artery in his leg.
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User avatar StryderHells
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21 Mar 2017 02:52

Well, to be fair, prior to joining Cannondale, Rolland was top-10 GT material. And that was only 2 years ago.
User avatar lenric
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21 Mar 2017 14:30

I am really looking forward to this improvement we have been promised with Rolland now he is with a professionally run team
barmaher
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Re: Cannondale-Drapac

22 Mar 2017 23:18

Does anyone know what's up with Taylor Phinney? Like everyone, I heard about his knee getting dinged up again, then he said it was all good and that he'd be at Catalunya, and then nothing. I was really hoping he could get back on track this spring.
Choocher
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Re: Cannondale-Drapac

23 Mar 2017 00:44

Choocher wrote:Does anyone know what's up with Taylor Phinney? Like everyone, I heard about his knee getting dinged up again, then he said it was all good and that he'd be at Catalunya, and then nothing. I was really hoping he could get back on track this spring.

Phinney is on the start list for E3 Harelbeke on Friday.
shalgo
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Re: Cannondale-Drapac

23 Mar 2017 01:46

shalgo wrote:
Choocher wrote:Does anyone know what's up with Taylor Phinney? Like everyone, I heard about his knee getting dinged up again, then he said it was all good and that he'd be at Catalunya, and then nothing. I was really hoping he could get back on track this spring.

Phinney is on the start list for E3 Harelbeke on Friday.


It is nearly impossible to be good at this point of the classics season with no racing though, even if he is 100% healthy.

Not a good day a DDV today. Vanmarcke appears to have had the runs, which is I suppose better than if the problem was still his ribs. That can't be helped. Everyone missing the break and then also the big selection was pretty bad though.
Zinoviev Letter
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23 Mar 2017 11:01

Vanmarcke said his ribs were not a significant problem in DDV. He was just bad and could not follow the others on the climbs. He hopes it was just an offday. He also had some stomach problems. Hope he will be allright next week.
Ikbengodniet
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23 Mar 2017 12:01

I think they have a problem with weight management. Everybody looks too skinny - too low weight and power loss.
IndianCyclist
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Re:

23 Mar 2017 12:15

IndianCyclist wrote:I think they have a problem with weight management. Everybody looks too skinny - too low weight and power loss.

That already happened to a few of their riders, Ryder for example was really thin before the start of the 2013 Giro , 68kg or even lighter, and became rather fragile.
Formolo also had a few problems when he joined the team and lost a few kg (he used to be Jan Hirt thin as an amateur, then he put on a few kg when he turned pro to gain more power for the flat, back than he was 65kg, that was probably the best power to weight ratio for him), so you'd think that by now the team should know better.
User avatar Mayomaniac
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Re: Cannondale-Drapac

23 Mar 2017 19:02

shalgo wrote:
Choocher wrote:Does anyone know what's up with Taylor Phinney? Like everyone, I heard about his knee getting dinged up again, then he said it was all good and that he'd be at Catalunya, and then nothing. I was really hoping he could get back on track this spring.

Phinney is on the start list for E3 Harelbeke on Friday.

Coppi e Bartali, then Flanders and Roubaix for him.
janraaskalt
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Re: Cannondale-Drapac

24 Mar 2017 18:06

Kind of a decent day for Cannondale today. Skujins saves them from winning the "Last WorldTeam to get a win" competition this year and they had 3 riders in top20 in both Catalunya and E3.

Unfortunately, Vanmarcke doesn't seem to have recovered from his health issues yet, so the win wasn't on cards in E3, but I was really satisfied with the numbers they had near the front late in the race. I was really curious to see if Bettiol could ever become a good cobbled rider after his breakthrough last year and the answer after today seems to be "yes". Van Baarle continues to be perhaps the most consistent u-25 rider on cobbles since last year. Even Tom Scully had a performance worhty of a WT rider, perhaps the first time during his career. Vanmarcke should have a good support for RVV and PR in case he manages to recover.
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Anderis
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26 Mar 2017 16:46

In E3, each time when peleton was going to split, Cannondale looked like having 5-6 riders in top60 and 3 in top25. Today they barely managed to have 2 in top60. Most of the team was at the back of the peloton all the time. I don't know what happened to these guys in just 2 days. Maybe losing their nominal leader was a hit to the morale?
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