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Team Movistar-thread

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Re:

18 May 2017 20:28

Moviestar wrote:Visconti and his (bad) memories at Movistar...

http://www.marca.com/blogs/llamaradas/2017/05/18/los-malos-recuerdos-de-visconti-en-el.html

Guess we've got the answer why Nibali doesn't like Nairo


Yea they were discussing this on the cycling podcast a couple of days ago about Nairos attitude. Apparently he has changed a little since then.

Visconti for his part I don't think settles well in a domestique role. He seems to like going for stages a lot in the GT's, which he can admittedly do quite well though doesn't always gel well with the teams GC ambitions.
Last edited by deValtos on 18 May 2017 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
deValtos
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18 May 2017 20:38

Well what can Movistar do if they are going for GC then everyone has to be focused on that goal. If he can't then he won't gel with the team. Very simple. Just different goals.

We could see Visconti as a stage hunter when they first contracted him. We could see the discordance coming I guess.
User avatar Escarabajo
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18 May 2017 21:51

At the same time, nobody forced Gio to re-sign when his initial contract at the team was up, with Nairo clearly the leader for the future at that point. I mean, he did spend fully five years there. I always thought it was a bit of an odd move on both parts, but then after the absolute misery that was Movistar's 2011 campaign, not knowing what Valverde's level post-ban would be like and needing to build alternative plans for the GTs with the disasters befalling Soler and Tondó, picking up somebody with good all-round result capability like Visconti who'd clearly outgrown the ProConti level made some sense; he probably felt he'd get more freedom as a result, but at least at first it did mean a downturn in his fortunes, mainly as he was swapping the profitable calendar of one-day races in Italy for the worst doldrum period in Spanish cycling, but also as he transitioned away from being a premier one-day racer towards the rider he is now, he essentially became usurped in that role by Rui Costa; Gio is a decent climber but, despite having done a very good job in developing that side of his game, perhaps to do with the nature of the Spanish calendar he was now riding, to the point where he could win Giro MTFs and the GPM, in the real mountainous races it was still not enough to be the leader's right hand man, at least in the GTs, and with the team having essentially no interest in the flatter and cobbled classics, and one of the greatest riders of the modern generation for the hilly classics, he didn't get to lead there either.

Also, there is essentially the feeling that, more than many teams, the long tradition at Abarcá gives them quite a close-knit feel. They have quite a few riders who are or have been Abarcá lifers - from top stars like Indurain to domestiques like Txente and Pablo Lastras. You've got riders who I thought would move on for more opportunities who've elected to stay, you've got riders who've been there either their whole pro career (Erviti, Amador, Herrada), or for absolutely years on end (Rojas, Valverde, Castroviejo). But it also means that people grow accustomed to roles, and if that role is moving further and further away from where you feel you can, or should, be, then it's no surprise if some big names don't fit there anymore. Joaquím Rodríguez' role at Caisse d'Épargne was basically to be Valverde's kid brother, for example, while Rui Costa was leaving due to similar frustration at the end of 2010 before his suspension; returning mid-season when the ban was quashed, it was the very same team that he left who extended an olive branch with the season slowly turning sour, but then of course it should be no surprise that he extended after getting much more freedom following the losses of Soler and Tondó mid-season for the worst of reasons, nor that when his contract was up in 2013 and with Valverde and Quintana hoovering up most of the major leadership roles, that he would be looking elsewhere.

I don't feel like Gio was mistreated or anything, I just think what he was looking for from the team and what the team was looking for from him drifted apart especially once his position in the pecking order dropped beyond what he felt he deserved, and so he's slowly become less and less happy until the eventual transfer.
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18 May 2017 22:13

don't think that it's easy to get along witth Visconti, remember the crash on stage 14 of the last Giro with Cunego?
Not really Cunego's fault and he was really sorry about it and apologised many times, but Visconti was still blaming him and couldn't let it go.
According to La Gazzetta yesterday there was also some heat between Visconti and Amador durning the final with Amador chasing his attack down and some yelling and hand gestures.
Visconti isn't exactly a huge teamplayer, but he's an attacking rider and after all he still directed La caduta degli dei. ;)
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Re:

18 May 2017 23:20

Mayomaniac wrote:...
Visconti isn't exactly a huge teamplayer, but he's an attacking rider and after all he still directed La caduta degli dei. ;)


:D That was a good movie, I'll let it slide
Last edited by AlexNYC on 18 May 2017 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
AlexNYC
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Re:

18 May 2017 23:20

Moviestar wrote:Visconti and his (bad) memories at Movistar...

http://www.marca.com/blogs/llamaradas/2017/05/18/los-malos-recuerdos-de-visconti-en-el.html

Guess we've got the answer why Nibali doesn't like Nairo


C'mon, you're supposed to give us a translation if you're going to link to an article in another language. Forum rules...
User avatar jaylew
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18 May 2017 23:43

It's a silly rule. Anyone can run it through Google Translate, it doesn't need to take up space here and the article has started an interesting discussion even without a translation.
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Re:

18 May 2017 23:50

hrotha wrote:It's a silly rule. Anyone can run it through Google Translate, it doesn't need to take up space here and the article has started an interesting discussion even without a translation.

An interesting discussion among people who understand the article, I guess. Google Translate doesn't offer the accuracy and context needed to have a properly informed discussion about anything. If you have a problem with the rule, you know where to post to complain.

You could have offered a decent translation of the major points yourself if you wanted to be more helpful.
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19 May 2017 02:35

Visconti should really just shot his mouth. He rarely if ever play the team game, even if he is on duty for riders like Valverde in 16 or Nibali in 17 who are some of the biggest favourites to win the race overall. I don't have the slightest of respect for anything he says.

You don't like Quintana, Nibali don't like Quintana, thats fine.
"This is the Tour that will determine If I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
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Re:

19 May 2017 05:46

Mayomaniac wrote:don't think that it's easy to get along witth Visconti, remember the crash on stage 14 of the last Giro with Cunego?
Not really Cunego's fault and he was really sorry about it and apologised many times, but Visconti was still blaming him and couldn't let it go.
According to La Gazzetta yesterday there was also some heat between Visconti and Amador durning the final with Amador chasing his attack down and some yelling and hand gestures.
Visconti isn't exactly a huge teamplayer, but he's an attacking rider and after all he still directed La caduta degli dei. ;)

From what I've heard from someone who's met him several times, he seems like a really sweet and gentle guy.
Alberto we love you
on the road
you don't need to say this stuff
we saw you on the road
you blessed us with 9 great shows
let's not argue the toss about the official count
you are much bigger than that
~TourOfSardinia
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Re: Team Movistar-thread

19 May 2017 06:57

Hahaha, not again this pseudo-psychologic talk about rider's characters.
Visco just says something from his point of view, from how he has been involved in it.
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 16:24

jaylew wrote:
hrotha wrote:It's a silly rule. Anyone can run it through Google Translate, it doesn't need to take up space here and the article has started an interesting discussion even without a translation.

An interesting discussion among people who understand the article, I guess. Google Translate doesn't offer the accuracy and context needed to have a properly informed discussion about anything. If you have a problem with the rule, you know where to post to complain.

You could have offered a decent translation of the major points yourself if you wanted to be more helpful.

There's not a lot of meat on the bones of that article to be honest. It's what he doesn't say that could be the intersting bits! A short summary is:

Visconti was unhappy at Movistar because he didn't get enough opportunities to ride for himself. For example, in the Giro last year he was unhappy at being called back to defend Valverde's podium position. He said it's completely different riding under Nibali. In response, Valverde refused to criticize the comments of 'his friend' Visconti.

He also said Quintana was basically really annoying everyone in the team with his behaviour up until the 2014 Vuelta. He says he was like a merciless tyrant to his teammates. (Frustratingly he doesn't add many juicy details). Then Visconti (he implies on behalf of the team, without really saying it) had the courage to confront him at dinner. Quintana apologised and changed a bit after that. He then says again that Nibali couldn't be more different.
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 19:22

LaFlorecita wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:don't think that it's easy to get along witth Visconti, remember the crash on stage 14 of the last Giro with Cunego?
Not really Cunego's fault and he was really sorry about it and apologised many times, but Visconti was still blaming him and couldn't let it go.
According to La Gazzetta yesterday there was also some heat between Visconti and Amador durning the final with Amador chasing his attack down and some yelling and hand gestures.
Visconti isn't exactly a huge teamplayer, but he's an attacking rider and after all he still directed La caduta degli dei. ;)

From what I've heard from someone who's met him several times, he seems like a really sweet and gentle guy.

I never said the opposite, I just said that as a rider he's not a big teamplayer and mostly thinks about himself and his own chances, from what I know he could be the nicest guy in the world when he's not in racing mode.
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19 May 2017 20:24

Really "classy" from Visconti. I wonder what he will say about Nibali in couple of years time...
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 20:29

LaFlorecita wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:don't think that it's easy to get along witth Visconti, remember the crash on stage 14 of the last Giro with Cunego?
Not really Cunego's fault and he was really sorry about it and apologised many times, but Visconti was still blaming him and couldn't let it go.
According to La Gazzetta yesterday there was also some heat between Visconti and Amador durning the final with Amador chasing his attack down and some yelling and hand gestures.
Visconti isn't exactly a huge teamplayer, but he's an attacking rider and after all he still directed La caduta degli dei. ;)

From what I've heard from someone who's met him several times, he seems like a really sweet and gentle guy.

Saying stuff like that in the media really does seem sweet and gentle.......

Not to start any debate here, but I do wonder if you'd have said the same thing if he said stuff like that about Alberto? Not classy by any means. He could always have stayed on the pro conti scene or went to some smaller team to get more freedom (I think he still got a lot, more than he often deserved). I mean, dude was racing his own race last year when Valverde had a genuine shot to win the race. That pissed me off.
"This is the Tour that will determine If I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
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Re: Re:

20 May 2017 03:25

DFA123 wrote:
jaylew wrote:
hrotha wrote:It's a silly rule. Anyone can run it through Google Translate, it doesn't need to take up space here and the article has started an interesting discussion even without a translation.

An interesting discussion among people who understand the article, I guess. Google Translate doesn't offer the accuracy and context needed to have a properly informed discussion about anything. If you have a problem with the rule, you know where to post to complain.

You could have offered a decent translation of the major points yourself if you wanted to be more helpful.

There's not a lot of meat on the bones of that article to be honest. It's what he doesn't say that could be the intersting bits! A short summary is:

Visconti was unhappy at Movistar because he didn't get enough opportunities to ride for himself. For example, in the Giro last year he was unhappy at being called back to defend Valverde's podium position. He said it's completely different riding under Nibali. In response, Valverde refused to criticize the comments of 'his friend' Visconti.

He also said Quintana was basically really annoying everyone in the team with his behaviour up until the 2014 Vuelta. He says he was like a merciless tyrant to his teammates. (Frustratingly he doesn't add many juicy details). Then Visconti (he implies on behalf of the team, without really saying it) had the courage to confront him at dinner. Quintana apologised and changed a bit after that. He then says again that Nibali couldn't be more different.
Interesting. Good on Bala for taking the high road. Thanks!
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Re: Re:

20 May 2017 09:52

Mayomaniac wrote:I never said the opposite, I just said that as a rider he's not a big teamplayer and mostly thinks about himself and his own chances, from what I know he could be the nicest guy in the world when he's not in racing mode.

Ok, we agree then :)
Alberto we love you
on the road
you don't need to say this stuff
we saw you on the road
you blessed us with 9 great shows
let's not argue the toss about the official count
you are much bigger than that
~TourOfSardinia
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24 May 2017 19:32

Bennati abandoned on purpose, Unzue wants him as gregario in the Tourteam.

Daniele Bennati, 36 years, Movistar
<< Il retiro era preventivato, Unzue mi vuole salvaguardare per il Tour >>
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24 May 2017 19:47

The Visconti comments were very interesting. It's not that often that we get the view of a senior teammate on that team's leaders and culture not filtered through pr speak or mediated by rumour.

It's not at all surprising to hear that Quintana was a bit of a pain in the **** to deal with when he was a young leader just breaking through at the very top. Nor is it surprising to hear that he calmed down a bit as he grew more secure in his role.
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Re:

24 May 2017 19:49

Moviestar wrote:Bennati abandoned on purpose, Unzue wants him as gregario in the Tourteam.

Daniele Bennati, 36 years, Movistar
<< Il retiro era preventivato, Unzue mi vuole salvaguardare per il Tour >>

Interesting, I also thought that was the case when he abandoned. Super smart move.

I see Jasha is training in Sierra Nevada with Valverde, do you think he will get a spot at the TdF-team? Its pretty crowded..
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