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Team Movistar-thread

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Re:

24 Dec 2017 18:25

yaco wrote:The MS plan seems fraught with danger but if they can keep their three riders out of trouble in the first week, then their lack of teamwork could disrupt the Skytrain - Stranger things have happened.




Interesting point. Who knows, maybe this actually is the plan? It would certainly be a new one.
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Re:

24 Dec 2017 21:37

yaco wrote:The MS plan seems fraught with danger but if they can keep their three riders out of trouble in the first week, then their lack of teamwork could disrupt the Skytrain - Stranger things have happened.


I'm not sure if there will be a Skytrain at the Tour ;)
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Re: Re:

24 Dec 2017 23:14

Blanco wrote:
yaco wrote:The MS plan seems fraught with danger but if they can keep their three riders out of trouble in the first week, then their lack of teamwork could disrupt the Skytrain - Stranger things have happened.


I'm not sure if there will be a Skytrain at the Tour ;)

Exactly my thought!
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Re: Re:

24 Dec 2017 23:57

Escarabajo wrote:
Blanco wrote:
yaco wrote:The MS plan seems fraught with danger but if they can keep their three riders out of trouble in the first week, then their lack of teamwork could disrupt the Skytrain - Stranger things have happened.


I'm not sure if there will be a Skytrain at the Tour ;)

Exactly my thought!


There will be, I can assure you both!
Questions are: who will be the Sky leader, and second, which team will be stronger. I must admit MovistarTrain in Giro'17 was sometimes astonishing (i.e. on Blockhaus stage).
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Re: Re:

25 Dec 2017 01:21

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:
Blanco wrote:
yaco wrote:The MS plan seems fraught with danger but if they can keep their three riders out of trouble in the first week, then their lack of teamwork could disrupt the Skytrain - Stranger things have happened.


I'm not sure if there will be a Skytrain at the Tour ;)

Exactly my thought!


There will be, I can assure you both!
Questions are: who will be the Sky leader, and second, which team will be stronger. I must admit MovistarTrain in Giro'17 was sometimes astonishing (i.e. on Blockhaus stage).

If Roson, Valls, Betancur et.al. are firing on all cylinders, there might actually be a contest.
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Re: Re:

25 Dec 2017 10:39

Squire wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:
Blanco wrote:
yaco wrote:The MS plan seems fraught with danger but if they can keep their three riders out of trouble in the first week, then their lack of teamwork could disrupt the Skytrain - Stranger things have happened.


I'm not sure if there will be a Skytrain at the Tour ;)

Exactly my thought!


There will be, I can assure you both!
Questions are: who will be the Sky leader, and second, which team will be stronger. I must admit MovistarTrain in Giro'17 was sometimes astonishing (i.e. on Blockhaus stage).

If Roson, Valls, Betancur et.al. are firing on all cylinders, there might actually be a contest.

But I actually dont think these guys will even ride the Tour, since you obviously have the leaders, then need 3 rouleurs which means only 2 mountain domestiques. And there you also have Fernandez, Anacona and Soler. even De La Parte who have been very good. They have a very good amount of depth this year so they should be able to send 3 very strong teams for each GT.
And I really hope Valverde DOESNT ride the Tour and take on the Giro instead, Vuelta and then WCs.
"This is the Tour that will determine If I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
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Re: Re:

25 Dec 2017 10:41

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:
Blanco wrote:
yaco wrote:The MS plan seems fraught with danger but if they can keep their three riders out of trouble in the first week, then their lack of teamwork could disrupt the Skytrain - Stranger things have happened.


I'm not sure if there will be a Skytrain at the Tour ;)

Exactly my thought!


There will be, I can assure you both!
Questions are: who will be the Sky leader, and second, which team will be stronger. I must admit MovistarTrain in Giro'17 was sometimes astonishing (i.e. on Blockhaus stage).


I'm not sure even Lappartient could assure that, let alone you ;)
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25 Dec 2017 11:34

I just hope Movistar goes full retard and brings all their best mountain domestiques. Quintana, Landa, Valverde, Amador, Anacona, Carapaz, Betancur, Roson, or something. Significant time loss in the first week and then madness all throughout the mountains. One can dream.
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25 Dec 2017 11:35

MS only need one mountain domestique if they take 3 leaders to the TDF - And then then I'd be more tempted to take a rouleur in place of the mountain domestique, especially considering support is required on the flat and of course the TTT.
yaco
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25 Dec 2017 12:14

If Movistar can get through the first week at the TdF without calamities, then it'll be really interesting.
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25 Dec 2017 12:59

No no, we want them to go through the first week with calamities (in the form of time loss), so they have to go crazy in the mountains.
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Re:

25 Dec 2017 16:13

Maaaaaaaarten wrote:No no, we want them to go through the first week with calamities (in the form of time loss), so they have to go crazy in the mountains.


You dont want them so far behind that everyone is fine letting someone of them go on a long attack. Because then nobody will follow and they be reeled back or just gain minimum time and be done the next day.
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Re: Team Movistar-thread

25 Dec 2017 16:52

I see two reasons why one shouldn't get too excited about Movistar's tdf team next year.
1. What effectively derails the sky train is not an attack by one rider. Sky will have the manpower to bring every move from far out back, as long as the attacker doesn't end up in a big group where many riders ride for him. Said differently, either your name has to be Alberto Contador and you ride the last mountain stage of your career, or you need teammates in front. Since Movistar starts with three leaders, and not one leader with two superb mountain domestiques, who will be the teammate in front who then pulls the rider who attacked? I can neither see Landa working for Quintana nor the other way around. Maybe Valverde will work for a teammate but probably only if he is far behind in the general classification (and I honestly think Valverde is least likely to lose a lot of time in the first week)
This Movistar tactic with 3 leaders could maybe work against a weak rival, but probably not against sky.

2. Movistar isn't exactly known for its aggressive style of racing. Quintana lost the tdf 2015 because he didn't have the balls to attack early and because his team was too keen on protecting the third place of a teammate, something that could absolutely happen again this year. Ofc next year Landa will also join the fun, which could make a difference, but how big will it be? He can ignore team orders but that would only cause solo moves which are doomed against the sky train. If Movistar wants to do damage by riding aggressively they have to do it as a unit and I'm not convinced that will happen.
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25 Dec 2017 19:15

At most MS will take 2 mountain domestiques, but I'm not sure they even take that many. Possibly Fernandez or Betancur as the mountain domesque. No way they take Soler. He's raced 1 GT so far and needs more experience. However, I do see Soler going back to la Vuelta. Truthfully I wouldn't be at all surprised if Fernandez and Soler are two of Valverde's domestiques that go with him to the Worlds for the Spanish National Team as they both have started going to the Ardennes with him and other one day races as well.
If they rally do take all 3 of their GC riders I'd fill out the team with: Sütterlin (they need a TT specialist for the TTT), Erviti, Rojas, Betancur, and Fernandez.
If Valverde actually looses time in the first week, this would go back to something he said before the 2016 Tour. That he was going to loose time so he could go spend the day in the break and go stage hunting. If he looses time he's not going to play domestique, he'll go stage hunting. He also said something about sending all 3 is going to be fun. Somehow, I think his idea of fun and everyone else's may be a bit different.

Also Movistar is typically a passive and conservative team. The few times they seem to be more aggressive are typically when Valverde and Contador came up with crazy ideas before the start of stages which team directors had no idea about. With Contador retiring, Valverde has lost his friend and planning partner for those type of ideas. Plus remember his style is a very conservative racing style in general as he typically prefers to rely on his sprinting ability to win stages or take a handful of seconds at the line than to go from any sort of distance. Rather he still has that sprint speed at the end of these stages after his crash or not, we won't know until he starts racing again. He's claiming it's still there.
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25 Dec 2017 19:35

The 3 leaders is a bad idea. This isn't cycling games. Landa should commit to Giro and ride Tour to support Quintana and go for stages when Quintana doesn't need him. Valverde should support and go for stages and lead the Spanish stage races, adrennes, and Vuelta. Then Landa and Quintana can split up the other week stage races between them.

Unfortunaly Movistar lost Benat or he could have led the Giro. Just going for Amador won't get any where near as good results and this is a full year. I would want to win as much and as big as I could if I was Unzue.
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Re: Team Movistar-thread

26 Dec 2017 19:33

Gigs_98 wrote:I see two reasons why one shouldn't get too excited about Movistar's tdf team next year.
1. What effectively derails the sky train is not an attack by one rider. Sky will have the manpower to bring every move from far out back, as long as the attacker doesn't end up in a big group where many riders ride for him. Said differently, either your name has to be Alberto Contador and you ride the last mountain stage of your career, or you need teammates in front. Since Movistar starts with three leaders, and not one leader with two superb mountain domestiques, who will be the teammate in front who then pulls the rider who attacked? I can neither see Landa working for Quintana nor the other way around. Maybe Valverde will work for a teammate but probably only if he is far behind in the general classification (and I honestly think Valverde is least likely to lose a lot of time in the first week)
This Movistar tactic with 3 leaders could maybe work against a weak rival, but probably not against sky.

2. Movistar isn't exactly known for its aggressive style of racing. Quintana lost the tdf 2015 because he didn't have the balls to attack early and because his team was too keen on protecting the third place of a teammate, something that could absolutely happen again this year. Ofc next year Landa will also join the fun, which could make a difference, but how big will it be? He can ignore team orders but that would only cause solo moves which are doomed against the sky train. If Movistar wants to do damage by riding aggressively they have to do it as a unit and I'm not convinced that will happen.


I agree 100%...
i hope they prove us wrong but by the time they men-up it's usually 1 week too late....
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28 Dec 2017 20:23

movistar must win the tour... without froome and dumoulin, anything less than a win is a complete disaster.
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Re:

29 Dec 2017 07:27

portugal11 wrote:movistar must win the tour... without froome and dumoulin, anything less than a win is a complete disaster.


Agree with you for once. Porte is gonna do a Porte, Uran is gonna suck wheel to ensure 2nd place and the rest of the competition should not worry them... Bar, the shark of Messina in full vodoo mod. With such a line up, they would be the best team on paper along with, even Froomless, Sky.
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30 Dec 2017 21:12

Movistar could end up sweeping the podium. Their 3 GC riders are capable of doing that, they could place only 1 rider on the podium (win or just a podium) or they could blow up. If they blow up I figure Valverde ends up with the highest finish of the 3. This is going under the assumption his knee is fine.
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04 Jan 2018 17:13

They have announced their line up for the Tour Down Under: Fernandez, Barbero, Soler, Oliveira, Bico, Sütterlin, Castrillo. I'm guessing Barbero for the sprints and Fernandez and Soler for GC. Castrillo is going to get to go to a race right away.
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