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Re:

12 Mar 2017 21:45

silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.
"This is the Tour that will determine whether I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
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12 Mar 2017 22:18

Do you think Geraint could claim a podium finish at the Giro? I doubted it considering the talent he's up against but I think he can hold his own against Aru & Nibali.
gavin
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Re: Re:

12 Mar 2017 22:41

Valv.Piti wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.


If T-A is anything to go by, Sky are a lot more fun to watch when they've lost a chunk of time from a TTT. :)
User avatar SlickMongoose
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Re: Re:

12 Mar 2017 22:50

SlickMongoose wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.


If T-A is anything to go by, Sky are a lot more fun to watch when they've lost a chunk of time from a TTT. :)

Definitely, but they are digging their own grave this way, I refuse to believe that will be the team.
"This is the Tour that will determine whether I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
User avatar Valv.Piti
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Re: Re:

12 Mar 2017 23:57

Valv.Piti wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.


Froome, Poels, Kennaugh and Kiri are all good time triallists. If you add Rosa's strength and Lopez's ability to be anywhere I don't think they have that weak a TTT squad. Even Landa can time trial now...
greenedge
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Re: Re:

12 Mar 2017 23:59

greenedge wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.


Froome, Poels, Kennaugh and Kiri are all good time triallists. If you add Rosa's strength and Lopez's ability to be anywhere I don't think they have that weak a TTT squad. Even Landa can time trial now...


Yes its ok but could be stronger, plus Froome is always a little under-par at Catalunya anyway, he usually just uses it to get race km's in the legs after a training block.
User avatar Pricey_sky
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Re: Re:

13 Mar 2017 04:51

greenedge wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.


Froome, Poels, Kennaugh and Kiri are all good time triallists. If you add Rosa's strength and Lopez's ability to be anywhere I don't think they have that weak a TTT squad. Even Landa can time trial now...


G Thomas said next is Catalunya for him. If he does do it, Froome, G, and Kiri are extremely good TTists and with Kennaugh and Rosa's ability I think they should fare well.
SeriousSam wrote: Peña Cabarga is like Froome's Mount Doom, the place where his great power was forged into fearsome weapon. He was never going to lose here
User avatar silvergrenade
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Re: Re:

13 Mar 2017 04:53

Pricey_sky wrote:
greenedge wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.


Froome, Poels, Kennaugh and Kiri are all good time triallists. If you add Rosa's strength and Lopez's ability to be anywhere I don't think they have that weak a TTT squad. Even Landa can time trial now...


Yes its ok but could be stronger, plus Froome is always a little under-par at Catalunya anyway, he usually just uses it to get race km's in the legs after a training block.


Its possible that he takes up the role of super domestique to Geraint Thomas.
SeriousSam wrote: Peña Cabarga is like Froome's Mount Doom, the place where his great power was forged into fearsome weapon. He was never going to lose here
User avatar silvergrenade
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Re:

13 Mar 2017 05:50

Alexandre B. wrote:13 wins out of the last 16 prestigious french stage races (P-N, Dauphiné, Tour).

To be honest, I'm bored.


14 out of 18 if you go back to the 2011 Dauphine, which was really the breakthrough win for Sky as a stage racing squad. Of the four 'failures', Wiggins crashed out of the 2011 Tour and Froome did the same in the 2014 Tour. Froome was in the leader's jersey at the 2014 Dauphine before crashing and then in the 2014 Paris-Nice Thomas was sitting second, eight seconds behind Betancur, with two stages to go before crashing out. Without the crashes I think Froome would have won those two races, Wiggins would have gone very close at worst to winning the 2011 Tour but Thomas would have remained 2nd at best behind Betancur.

Sky have been far less successful in the big Spanish and Italian stage races. They've never won the Giro, Tirreno, Vuelta or Pais Vasco. Just Porte's win in the 2015 Catalunya. So just one GC win since their inception in 2010 in those 35 (36 including this year's Tirreno) combined races. Just one monument win out of 35 attempts too (Poels at LBL in 2016).

Obviously Team Sky was basically founded with the explicit intention of winning the Tour so that explains a large part of the discrepancy in results but it doesn't tell the whole story. They've sent some extremely strong teams to the Spanish and Italian races. This year's Tirreno team is much stronger than their Paris-Nice squad for instance. Unlike the French races they've had some very near misses, particularly in Spain (three 2nds and a 3rd at Pais Vasco, three 2nds and a 3rd at the Vuelta). The Italian stage races have nearly always been a disaster for Sky due to crashes, illness and just poor performance generally. There has only been Uran's 2nd place at the 2013 Giro, after Wiggins went home, and Froome's 2nd place at the 2013 Tirreno.
JRanton
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Re: Re:

13 Mar 2017 06:13

Valv.Piti wrote:
SlickMongoose wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.


If T-A is anything to go by, Sky are a lot more fun to watch when they've lost a chunk of time from a TTT. :)

Definitely, but they are digging their own grave this way, I refuse to believe that will be the team.


The problem is the classics riders, many of whom time trial pretty well, are in Belgium. I really don't understand the thinking behind this ludicrously long TTT. It was the same in Valencia. Poels probably won't ride Catalunya due to the knee injury that kept him out of Paris-Nice. Maybe he will now target Pais-Vasco with Henao and Sky can switch Kwiatkowski to Catalunya.
JRanton
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Re: Re:

13 Mar 2017 06:49

silvergrenade wrote:Its possible that he takes up the role of super domestique to Geraint Thomas.


Yes its a good opportunity to repay some of the work of his teammates, Landa should go well here too if he can hold on during the TTT.
User avatar Pricey_sky
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Location: Kidderminster, England

13 Mar 2017 15:25

What is it people don't like about sky? Is it that they've only been on the scene for a short amount of time and seem to win quite regularly, unlike some teams where their favourite rider is riding for? Is it that they have a larger budget so can bid more/over the top for the best (ish) riders therefore tipping the balance of fairness in their favour? Is it that they tend to bring on board top riders who in their own right could be fighting for GC on other teams but end up being doms for Froome in the Tour? Is it a clinic issue? Or is it just jealousy? A combination? Or something completely different?

Some don't like the way they say, ruin races with the mega choo choo train they have. I always thought the objective was to win the race. I'm sure the powers that be at sky don't give a hoot how they win races, on the road, (not clinic issues). Would Contador fans stop idolising him if he had gone to sky at some point, even if it meant him winning more races with having a decent team around him? Can you imagine the forums if Contador had won the Tour umpteen times more and the other GT's he could have added to his tally? I'm sure the clinic would be in meltdown. I don't understand the hatred at times towards a few teams, not just sky.
wheresmybrakes
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13 Mar 2017 15:51

They joined cycling with a holier than thou attitude. They are not holier than anyone.

They joined cycling saying they have attention to detail. They made it sound as if other teams were fly by night chancers. Recent events have proved that they are very inattentive to detail.

Some of their "innovations" are eh innovative, but most of it is rehashed ideas from other teams and eras that they use to trick the public into thinking they are the cleverest people on the circuit.

They are owned and funded by a man and company with very dubious morals.

They are sanctimonious. I don't have a massive issue with how they race. I like the way (for instance) Froome, Kwiatkowski, Moscon, Thomas, Stannard, Landa and Rowe ride. Overall the team ride in a boring fashion, but that is modern cycling.
barmaher
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Re:

13 Mar 2017 17:01

wheresmybrakes wrote:What is it people don't like about sky? Is it that they've only been on the scene for a short amount of time and seem to win quite regularly, unlike some teams where their favourite rider is riding for? Is it that they have a larger budget so can bid more/over the top for the best (ish) riders therefore tipping the balance of fairness in their favour? Is it that they tend to bring on board top riders who in their own right could be fighting for GC on other teams but end up being doms for Froome in the Tour? Is it a clinic issue? Or is it just jealousy? A combination? Or something completely different?

Some don't like the way they say, ruin races with the mega choo choo train they have. I always thought the objective was to win the race. I'm sure the powers that be at sky don't give a hoot how they win races, on the road, (not clinic issues). Would Contador fans stop idolising him if he had gone to sky at some point, even if it meant him winning more races with having a decent team around him? Can you imagine the forums if Contador had won the Tour umpteen times more and the other GT's he could have added to his tally? I'm sure the clinic would be in meltdown. I don't understand the hatred at times towards a few teams, not just sky.


Being annoyingly smug about their superiority in every facet of the sport and then all of the little catch phrases to describe their one-of-a-kind preparation techniques (Marginal gains being the most annoying), that border on the ludicrous and leans toward generally insulting the intelligence of the avid, experienced cycling fan. I could go on and on but I'd likely only be repeating what has already been posted prior to my own post.

I actually like some of their riders. It's just unfortunate that they ride for this team.
User avatar Angliru
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Re: Re:

13 Mar 2017 17:08

SlickMongoose wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.


If T-A is anything to go by, Sky are a lot more fun to watch when they've lost a chunk of time from a TTT. :)


Let's hope their wheels won't explode this time.
Never really found out though, was it several riders, or "just" Moscon?
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re: Re:

13 Mar 2017 17:11

Valv.Piti wrote:
SlickMongoose wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Team Sky Startlist for Catalunya. Extremely strong.

11 Christopher Froome (GBr)
12 Wout Poels (Ned)
13 Diego Rosa (Ita)
14 Peter Kennaugh (GBr)
15 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
16 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr)
17 David Lopez Garcia (Spa)
18 Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa)

If thats the case, the Sky management has just sold Catalunya for the highest bidder. Not that I complain, but that seems extremely stupid to pick so many climbers with a 41 k TTT.


If T-A is anything to go by, Sky are a lot more fun to watch when they've lost a chunk of time from a TTT. :)

Definitely, but they are digging their own grave this way, I refuse to believe that will be the team.

I don't think they'll necessarily try to win the race. Froome will be training as its his first european big race. Thomas will hardly be able to defy Contador in the mountains too.
dacooley
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Re: Re:

13 Mar 2017 18:08

JRanton wrote:
Alexandre B. wrote:13 wins out of the last 16 prestigious french stage races (P-N, Dauphiné, Tour).

To be honest, I'm bored.


14 out of 18 if you go back to the 2011 Dauphine, which was really the breakthrough win for Sky as a stage racing squad. Of the four 'failures', Wiggins crashed out of the 2011 Tour and Froome did the same in the 2014 Tour. Froome was in the leader's jersey at the 2014 Dauphine before crashing and then in the 2014 Paris-Nice Thomas was sitting second, eight seconds behind Betancur, with two stages to go before crashing out. Without the crashes I think Froome would have won those two races, Wiggins would have gone very close at worst to winning the 2011 Tour but Thomas would have remained 2nd at best behind Betancur.

Sky have been far less successful in the big Spanish and Italian stage races. They've never won the Giro, Tirreno, Vuelta or Pais Vasco. Just Porte's win in the 2015 Catalunya. So just one GC win since their inception in 2010 in those 35 (36 including this year's Tirreno) combined races. Just one monument win out of 35 attempts too (Poels at LBL in 2016).

Obviously Team Sky was basically founded with the explicit intention of winning the Tour so that explains a large part of the discrepancy in results but it doesn't tell the whole story. They've sent some extremely strong teams to the Spanish and Italian races. This year's Tirreno team is much stronger than their Paris-Nice squad for instance. Unlike the French races they've had some very near misses, particularly in Spain (three 2nds and a 3rd at Pais Vasco, three 2nds and a 3rd at the Vuelta). The Italian stage races have nearly always been a disaster for Sky due to crashes, illness and just poor performance generally. There has only been Uran's 2nd place at the 2013 Giro, after Wiggins went home, and Froome's 2nd place at the 2013 Tirreno.


Interesting: so the conclusion is that the only rider of the current generation capable of beating Sky head-to-head in the top French stage races is Carlos Betancur. :p
shalgo
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Re:

13 Mar 2017 18:19

barmaher wrote:They joined cycling with a holier than thou attitude. They are not holier than anyone.

They joined cycling saying they have attention to detail. They made it sound as if other teams were fly by night chancers. Recent events have proved that they are very inattentive to detail.

Some of their "innovations" are eh innovative, but most of it is rehashed ideas from other teams and eras that they use to trick the public into thinking they are the cleverest people on the circuit.

They are owned and funded by a man and company with very dubious morals.

They are sanctimonious. I don't have a massive issue with how they race. I like the way (for instance) Froome, Kwiatkowski, Moscon, Thomas, Stannard, Landa and Rowe ride. Overall the team ride in a boring fashion, but that is modern cycling.


This.This.This. Without getting clinical.
The poster formerly known as yespatterns.
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13 Mar 2017 23:13

So G will be leader in Catalunya ?...Hope this great from last till 3rd week of Giro as he has the added burden of keeping his weight off as not naturally skinny

Landa I though has been disappointing at TA . But Kwaito is doing a great job
HelloDolly
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Re: Re:

14 Mar 2017 03:10

shalgo wrote:
JRanton wrote:
Alexandre B. wrote:13 wins out of the last 16 prestigious french stage races (P-N, Dauphiné, Tour).

To be honest, I'm bored.


14 out of 18 if you go back to the 2011 Dauphine, which was really the breakthrough win for Sky as a stage racing squad. Of the four 'failures', Wiggins crashed out of the 2011 Tour and Froome did the same in the 2014 Tour. Froome was in the leader's jersey at the 2014 Dauphine before crashing and then in the 2014 Paris-Nice Thomas was sitting second, eight seconds behind Betancur, with two stages to go before crashing out. Without the crashes I think Froome would have won those two races, Wiggins would have gone very close at worst to winning the 2011 Tour but Thomas would have remained 2nd at best behind Betancur.

Sky have been far less successful in the big Spanish and Italian stage races. They've never won the Giro, Tirreno, Vuelta or Pais Vasco. Just Porte's win in the 2015 Catalunya. So just one GC win since their inception in 2010 in those 35 (36 including this year's Tirreno) combined races. Just one monument win out of 35 attempts too (Poels at LBL in 2016).

Obviously Team Sky was basically founded with the explicit intention of winning the Tour so that explains a large part of the discrepancy in results but it doesn't tell the whole story. They've sent some extremely strong teams to the Spanish and Italian races. This year's Tirreno team is much stronger than their Paris-Nice squad for instance. Unlike the French races they've had some very near misses, particularly in Spain (three 2nds and a 3rd at Pais Vasco, three 2nds and a 3rd at the Vuelta). The Italian stage races have nearly always been a disaster for Sky due to crashes, illness and just poor performance generally. There has only been Uran's 2nd place at the 2013 Giro, after Wiggins went home, and Froome's 2nd place at the 2013 Tirreno.


Interesting: so the conclusion is that the only rider of the current generation capable of beating Sky head-to-head in the top French stage races is Carlos Betancur. :p


Food for thought but don't tell Betancur you might accidentally motivate him !
movingtarget
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