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Team Sky Discussion thread

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re:

01 Sep 2017 16:00

Brullnux wrote:Genuine question: how do you become a fan of a whole team? What makes a team like sky so popular? They don't race GTs particularly excitingly at all, they're owned by a class a *, managed by a class b *, and they are the most by far the richest and most dominant team. Their classics set up is fun and enjoyable, but sky fans seem to care a lot less about those. Same goes for other teams as well. A cycling team is unlike a football team or other as they aren't from a set place and their identity and often their name changes completely every few years. I guess personal connections help, but surely it is more reasonable to like single riders. Is it just because a certain team just has a collection of your favoured riders? Or is it a nationality thing? Honest query


So:
- No Polish WT team;
- Michał Kwiatkowski. And I don't follow your comment about Sky classics set up: they are focused on GT races and still helped Kwiato a lot in his victories this year;
- I really admire their tactics, "choo-choo", "train" and so on;
- Froome is so funny on his bike (yo-yo, with head on the right side, staring all the time at his comp) that he makes me laughing;
- the biggest budget? - Yesterday I tried to explain my point of view in Transfer&Rumours thread;
- as was previous said: all the hate about Sky is really so funny! It helped me to become Sky fan and after a few years of following the forum I decided to register;
- and finally, please answer:how could I become (or remain) a fan of banned racer?? I really don't understand that. Let's assume that Froome or Kwiatkowski are banned one day. Then I erase them from my memory for ever.
User avatar Bot. Sky_Bot
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01 Sep 2017 16:05

"Then I erase them from my memory for ever"

Seems a bit 1984-y. My point re the classics squad was that it is objectively the most likeable and enjoyable part of Sky, but most Sky fans massively prefer GTs.
Brullnux
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

01 Sep 2017 16:23

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.
rlntlssly
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

01 Sep 2017 16:32

rlntlssly wrote:Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.
Brullnux
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

01 Sep 2017 16:46

Brullnux wrote:
rlntlssly wrote:Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.

This post has gone way beyond my knowledge of football!

What I mean is, by all means dislike them because you don't like the sponsor, or you don't like the money, or you prefer Italians to Britons, or any number of variously convincing reasons, but disliking them because they use the only genuinely sensible tactic for winning a bike race seems strange to me.
rlntlssly
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01 Sep 2017 17:05

Roger Federer has about 19 times as many fans as Novak Djokovic, and outside GB, about 390 million as many fans as Andy Murray's 3 fans (I think it's me, my brother, and some weird Norwegian guy).

I wonder why.

And that's not to say tennis has a lot opf different nuances, and even the defensive players can play super interesting if you bother to pay attention. For Sky the only interestin thing often is if they're gonna do 420 or 425W
Kwibus wrote:So much questions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

01 Sep 2017 17:18

rlntlssly wrote:
Brullnux wrote:
rlntlssly wrote:Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.

This post has gone way beyond my knowledge of football!

What I mean is, by all means dislike them because you don't like the sponsor, or you don't like the money, or you prefer Italians to Britons, or any number of variously convincing reasons, but disliking them because they use the only genuinely sensible tactic for winning a bike race seems strange to me.

I disagree. What sky do is completely understandable, and they have built their team around it so they have optimised it as well. But it is boring to watch, for many. They have learnt to control the race so well that not much happens in them anymore. There are other ways of winning GTs as others have shown, which are more exciting. As watching professional cycling is essentially always done for entertainment purposes, it doesn't really fulfil that for many. I'm not arguing it's validity as a tactic, but rather it's watchability. I watch cycling to be entertained, and if there's one team pushing out a certain number of watts the whole time, then I leave unsatisfied.

I'll go back to the football analogy. Spain's tactics worked brilliantly between 2008 and 2012, and they won everything they could win but it was really dull to watch at times. They'd score once, maybe twice, and control the rest of the game with an iron fist just passing the ball around the midfield. Sometimes they'd go mad and go full Guardiola and pass the ball with a purpose, but sometimes they'd just sit back. For the team Spain had at the time it was the optimal tactic of course, but it was slightly dull. I'm a bit hypocritical I admit as I love to watch when a team goes full catenaccio on another team and defends with their life, but look as if they are effortlessly controlling the game by just staying in defence as I always think a perfect defence is extremely rare but extremely beautiful, but I understand why others may find it dull. Disliking a team because they are perceived by someone to be boring is perfectly reasonable imo.
Brullnux
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

01 Sep 2017 17:41

rlntlssly wrote:Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.


Closest football analogy would be Mourinho's Chelsea during his first spell there. Arrogant nouveau riche side playing mostly dull and unimaginative, but highly effective game, leading to multiple big trophies. All that while being lead by an insufferable egomaniac of a coach.
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

01 Sep 2017 19:12

Põhja Konn wrote:
rlntlssly wrote:Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.


Closest football analogy would be Mourinho's Chelsea during his first spell there. Arrogant nouveau riche side playing mostly dull and unimaginative, but highly effective game, leading to multiple big trophies. All that while being lead by an insufferable egomaniac of a coach.

Right on target, this post.
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02 Sep 2017 00:10

Maybe we need Financial Fair Play in cycling too... That would probably stop UAE and Bahrain from spending big on their cycling teams now though. Maybe cycling is better off without them anyway. Football would be better off without Qatar's PSG project anyway.
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02 Sep 2017 20:57

http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_105699.htm
Nice diary written bij AG2R rider Nico Denz whole day was apparently saved by Christian Knees who got him a coke and water from the Sky team car. Always nice to hear rider helping out fellow riders from another team
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Re:

02 Sep 2017 21:56

wouterkaas wrote:http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_105699.htm
Nice diary written bij AG2R rider Nico Denz whole day was apparently saved by Christian Knees who got him a coke and water from the Sky team car. Always nice to hear rider helping out fellow riders from another team


Always good to see the sportsmanship and camaraderie between riders and teams. I think this kind of thing happens more than we get to see, In one of the final stages of Poland when Sagan cracked badly he was offered a can of fizzy drink from the Sky car.
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

02 Sep 2017 22:11

rlntlssly wrote:
Brullnux wrote:
rlntlssly wrote:Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.

This post has gone way beyond my knowledge of football!

What I mean is, by all means dislike them because you don't like the sponsor, or you don't like the money, or you prefer Italians to Britons, or any number of variously convincing reasons, but disliking them because they use the only genuinely sensible tactic for winning a bike race seems strange to me.

That tactic combined with their big budget which allows them to buy the best riders is what makes stage racing so boring these days, so it's absolutely normal to dislike them for it. And no, it's not the only sensible tactic for winning a bike race, many races have been won with different tactics.
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

02 Sep 2017 22:33

LaFlorecita wrote:
rlntlssly wrote:
Brullnux wrote:
rlntlssly wrote:Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.

This post has gone way beyond my knowledge of football!

What I mean is, by all means dislike them because you don't like the sponsor, or you don't like the money, or you prefer Italians to Britons, or any number of variously convincing reasons, but disliking them because they use the only genuinely sensible tactic for winning a bike race seems strange to me.

That tactic combined with their big budget which allows them to buy the best riders is what makes stage racing so boring these days, so it's absolutely normal to dislike them for it. And no, it's not the only sensible tactic for winning a bike race, many races have been won with different tactics.


Really?
During Giro 2017 Movistar had the same tactics: super strong team trying to drop Dumoulin.
Wasn't it a train composed of Anacona, Amador, Sutherland, Herrada, de la Parte.........?
What was today's tactics of 4 teams? They controlled the high pace of peloton just to check Froome's limit.
The same - was it 4teams train or not?
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

03 Sep 2017 01:00

Põhja Konn wrote:
rlntlssly wrote:Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.


Closest football analogy would be Mourinho's Chelsea during his first spell there. Arrogant nouveau riche side playing mostly dull and unimaginative, but highly effective game, leading to multiple big trophies. All that while being lead by an insufferable egomaniac of a coach.


And the analogy I see is that supporters of teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid and Manchester United are bitching about teams like Chelsea when their own teams have been guilty of the exact same thing for years before Chelsea made an appearance.

Apparently domination is okay if your favorite team is dominating but not when their rivals are dominating.
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03 Sep 2017 02:33

I dont deslike the riders. Quite the opposite but when you see in the last mtn, time and time again, 4-5 skys in front of a +/-25 exhausted gc group i can't start to wonder how things would've been different if Froome was at Ag2r for example.. as was sad in the forum before Froome probably would've won it but the race probably would've been more fun to watch..
I liked the soccer analogy since i'm brazilian but i like to think that to be Sky DS is like choose your velogames with 120pts and the others with 100..
Don't think salary cap will work because will be almost impossible to control it. Maybe even more reduce team. We'll see next year with 8 if anything change...
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06 Sep 2017 07:02

When was the last time a team win a monument classic and two grand tours in the same year?
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06 Sep 2017 07:04

Indurain team was not able to do it , and i think also mercatone uno with pantani , so we have to go to Hinault or roche ,
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06 Sep 2017 07:08

oh i find it it was with Carrera , roche to giro tour and machler milano sanremo in 1987
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06 Sep 2017 07:09

so we could say that in modern cycling that i think starts with indurain Team sky is the best team ever
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