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Team Sky Discussion thread

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

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Re: Re:

21 Dec 2018 20:54

Gigs_98 wrote:
macbindle wrote:It doesn't matter what you think of Team Sky, when they withdraw pro cycling will be €35 million poorer.

That is equivalent to the entire budgets of QS and Movistar, two major teams, at a time when teams are struggling to find sponsors and some have folded part way through the season.

Again, regardless of what you think of Sky, to claim that they have been inconsequential for pro cycling is nonsense. Never a fan myself, but Wiggins is right.

To come back to my previous example. When the NFL decided to make a salary cap there suddenly were millions of dollars less in the sport but the organization did it nonetheless because they knew the sport as a whole would benefit.


I don't know if anyone cares but the dramatic shift in NFL salaries after salary cap had less to do with the salary cap rule than other regulations that were eliminated.

When the NFL adopted salary caps it replaced a rule that mandated any team that signed another team's out-of-contract player to a free-agent deal must compensate the player's former team with players, draft picks, and/or cash.' By limiting free agency the NFL prevented bidding wars among its teams to obtain top talent and thus, the union claimed, unfairly suppressed player salaries.

Abolishing this rule brought salaries down more than instituting the cap because while the 49ers had more than double the cap in salary, most teams were far under the cap and an additional rule that they must spend 80% of the cap in salaries compelled them to participate in free agency which in turn became way way more competitive. The effect was shorter average careers, smaller average salaries, and more skill players that receive biggest-ever contracts to compete with every team for every players in free agency. Every year someone gets the biggest contract ever. Every year most NFLers are treated as expendable and team loyalty is a sad joke.
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Re:

21 Dec 2018 22:06

Koronin wrote:The ONLY people Sky's budget brought money into the sport for was Sky employees. No one else. Heck we've seen several teams fold since Sky has been here. Ratings have dropped everywhere except for GB. Thus Sky is actually bad for the sport. The big difference between ratings dropping outside the US during US Postal/Lance era and the ratings dropping outside GB during the Sky/Froome era is simply the market size. The US market during that era could make up for the ratings dropping in all other countries due to the sheer size and population of the US. GB cannot make up for that ratings drop. Also the budgets of other teams in the peloton have NOT increased due to Sky's presence. Thus it has NOT helped riders who are not employed by Sky. Heck, Landa has talked about the fact that he took a very large pay cut to leave Sky. He could have stayed at Sky and at his currently salary or an increased salary, but he choose to go to Movistar for a much reduced salary.

Great post. But without mentioning Valverde?
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Re: Re:

21 Dec 2018 22:18

myrideissteelerthanyours wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:
macbindle wrote:It doesn't matter what you think of Team Sky, when they withdraw pro cycling will be €35 million poorer.

That is equivalent to the entire budgets of QS and Movistar, two major teams, at a time when teams are struggling to find sponsors and some have folded part way through the season.

Again, regardless of what you think of Sky, to claim that they have been inconsequential for pro cycling is nonsense. Never a fan myself, but Wiggins is right.

To come back to my previous example. When the NFL decided to make a salary cap there suddenly were millions of dollars less in the sport but the organization did it nonetheless because they knew the sport as a whole would benefit.


I don't know if anyone cares but the dramatic shift in NFL salaries after salary cap had less to do with the salary cap rule than other regulations that were eliminated.

When the NFL adopted salary caps it replaced a rule that mandated any team that signed another team's out-of-contract player to a free-agent deal must compensate the player's former team with players, draft picks, and/or cash.' By limiting free agency the NFL prevented bidding wars among its teams to obtain top talent and thus, the union claimed, unfairly suppressed player salaries.

Abolishing this rule brought salaries down more than instituting the cap because while the 49ers had more than double the cap in salary, most teams were far under the cap and an additional rule that they must spend 80% of the cap in salaries compelled them to participate in free agency which in turn became way way more competitive. The effect was shorter average careers, smaller average salaries, and more skill players that receive biggest-ever contracts to compete with every team for every players in free agency. Every year someone gets the biggest contract ever. Every year most NFLers are treated as expendable and team loyalty is a sad joke.

I generally agree with most of this post but let's please not forget that my argument was not about introducing the NFL systems to the cycling world but that less money spent by rich teams isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you don't want to use the NFL as an example than just use another one that fits better to the argument. The point is, if a few teams having way more money than others is seen as a problem in other sports why shouldn't we see it as a problem in cycling. If in other sports that problem is solved by cutting down the amount of spent money why is less money being spent in cycling a catastrophe?
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Re: Re:

21 Dec 2018 22:23

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:
Koronin wrote:The ONLY people Sky's budget brought money into the sport for was Sky employees. No one else. Heck we've seen several teams fold since Sky has been here. Ratings have dropped everywhere except for GB. Thus Sky is actually bad for the sport. The big difference between ratings dropping outside the US during US Postal/Lance era and the ratings dropping outside GB during the Sky/Froome era is simply the market size. The US market during that era could make up for the ratings dropping in all other countries due to the sheer size and population of the US. GB cannot make up for that ratings drop. Also the budgets of other teams in the peloton have NOT increased due to Sky's presence. Thus it has NOT helped riders who are not employed by Sky. Heck, Landa has talked about the fact that he took a very large pay cut to leave Sky. He could have stayed at Sky and at his currently salary or an increased salary, but he choose to go to Movistar for a much reduced salary.

Great post. But without mentioning Valverde?


Yeah, no reason to. Mentioning Landa was important to help with what I was trying to explain. Valverde didn't fit into this particular discussion.
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

22 Dec 2018 01:59

What's old is new again. The BP logo has undergone a makeover
since it appeared on the kits of Tommy Simpson and Eddy Merckx.
Will we see BP back as a sponsor of a professional cycling team?
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22 Dec 2018 02:16

Today i had finally time so i watched the last three Radiocorsa in a row, in all three Beppe Conti's indiscreto was about Sky. The first time he said that his sources told to him that Sky wants Thomas as only leader for the Giro and Bernal as backup for Froome at the Tour, Froome will skip the Vuelta in case of a victory in France to be fresher in 2020 for his sixth. The second time he talked about the possible destinations of the riders in case of the folding of the team, Bernal has a lot of offers but he prefers to replace Quintana at Movistar (since last winter he reiterates almost every week that Quintana wants to leave Movistar), Thomas could go to UAE that was interested in him already last winter, CCC wants Kwiatkowski but he has a lot of doubts regarding the level of the team whereas Froome doesn't have offers, but he also added that before the announcement of Sky ending his sponsorship Brailsford had already made of offer to Nibali (him + his brother, Slongo and Pallini only, no support riders) that absolutely wants to leave Bahrain because apparently they are running out of money (McLaren is only technical support, no money) and they are late with payments to riders. The third time he said that in Colombia the government is in search of sponsors to save the team and build the future around Bernal, in this case they'll keep Froome that has a lot of fans in Colombia but not Thomas and other stars are in doubt with this scenario because the budget will be reduced and the team will have a certain number of colombians.

The disclaimer is, as always, that not everything he says is true but between the figments of his immagination usually there are some good rumors and even some exclusives, like Gaviria to UAE last summer well before everyone else, when no one would have put a penny on this scenario.
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Re:

22 Dec 2018 02:25

Nirvana wrote:Today i had finally time so i watched the last three Radiocorsa in a row, in all three Beppe Conti's indiscreto was about Sky. The first time he said that his sources told to him that Sky wants Thomas as only leader for the Giro and Bernal as backup for Froome at the Tour, Froome will skip the Vuelta in case of a victory in France to be fresher in 2020 for his sixth. The second time he talked about the possible destinations of the riders in case of the folding of the team, Bernal has a lot of offers but he prefers to replace Quintana at Movistar (since last winter he reiterates almost every week that Quintana wants to leave Movistar), Thomas could go to UAE that was interested in him already last winter, CCC wants Kwiatkowski but he has a lot of doubts regarding the level of the team whereas Froome doesn't have offers, but he also added that before the announcement of Sky ending his sponsorship Brailsford had already made of offer to Nibali (him + his brother, Slongo and Pallini only, no support riders) that absolutely wants to leave Bahrain because apparently they are running out of money (McLaren is only technical support, no money) and they are late with payments to riders. The third time he said that in Colombia the government is in search of sponsors to save the team and build the future around Bernal, in this case they'll keep Froome that has a lot of fans in Colombia but not Thomas and other stars are in doubt with this scenario because the budget will be reduced and the team will have a certain number of colombians.

The disclaimer is, as always, that not everything he says is true but between the figments of his immagination usually there are some good rumors and even some exclusives, like Gaviria to UAE last summer well before everyone else, when no one would have put a penny on this scenario.



Rumors about Quintana leaving Movistar is in a lot of places. So that one is likely (the whole where there's smoke there's fire thing). Bernal to Movistar, possible, but unlikely as Movistar has their sights on Mas.
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04 Jan 2019 17:56

https://www.velonews.com/2019/01/news/sky-rivals-expect-brailsford-to-save-team_482648

Apparently, LVMH the French luxury goods company that owns Pinarello might take over sponsorship. If this does happen would Sky become the Pinarello factory team or would Louis Vuitton be the name sponsor?
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Re:

04 Jan 2019 21:32

MatParker117 wrote:https://www.velonews.com/2019/01/news/sky-rivals-expect-brailsford-to-save-team_482648

Apparently, LVMH the French luxury goods company that owns Pinarello might take over sponsorship. If this does happen would Sky become the Pinarello factory team or would Louis Vuitton be the name sponsor?


I have no doubts they will find a major sponsor or maybe two depending on the budget they think they need. If Sky can't find sponsors no one can. Even with the controversies, there is too much success there to attract sponsors. The obvious question is the budget as the riders will be the first ones to feel the affect of that. The odds are that Froome and Thomas complete their current contracts and then Sky concentrate on retaining their younger talent.
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Re: Re:

04 Jan 2019 21:51

movingtarget wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:https://www.velonews.com/2019/01/news/sky-rivals-expect-brailsford-to-save-team_482648

Apparently, LVMH the French luxury goods company that owns Pinarello might take over sponsorship. If this does happen would Sky become the Pinarello factory team or would Louis Vuitton be the name sponsor?


I have no doubts they will find a major sponsor or maybe two depending on the budget they think they need. If Sky can't find sponsors no one can. Even with the controversies, there is too much success there to attract sponsors. The obvious question is the budget as the riders will be the first ones to feel the affect of that. The odds are that Froome and Thomas complete their current contracts and then Sky concentrate on retaining their younger talent.


LVMH reported a turnover of €42 billion in 2017, if it is them I don't forsee any budget cut.
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04 Jan 2019 23:27

Louis Vuitton? I expect all the WAGs are keeping their fingers crossed! :)
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“steel slats” does not a wall make.
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Re: Re:

05 Jan 2019 10:48

MatParker117 wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:https://www.velonews.com/2019/01/news/sky-rivals-expect-brailsford-to-save-team_482648

Apparently, LVMH the French luxury goods company that owns Pinarello might take over sponsorship. If this does happen would Sky become the Pinarello factory team or would Louis Vuitton be the name sponsor?


I have no doubts they will find a major sponsor or maybe two depending on the budget they think they need. If Sky can't find sponsors no one can. Even with the controversies, there is too much success there to attract sponsors. The obvious question is the budget as the riders will be the first ones to feel the affect of that. The odds are that Froome and Thomas complete their current contracts and then Sky concentrate on retaining their younger talent.


LVMH reported a turnover of €42 billion in 2017, if it is them I don't forsee any budget cut.


Whether they turn over 100 billion is irrelevant - A sponsor needs to have GOOD REASON to sponsor 40M per year.
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Re: Re:

05 Jan 2019 13:35

yaco wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:https://www.velonews.com/2019/01/news/sky-rivals-expect-brailsford-to-save-team_482648

Apparently, LVMH the French luxury goods company that owns Pinarello might take over sponsorship. If this does happen would Sky become the Pinarello factory team or would Louis Vuitton be the name sponsor?


I have no doubts they will find a major sponsor or maybe two depending on the budget they think they need. If Sky can't find sponsors no one can. Even with the controversies, there is too much success there to attract sponsors. The obvious question is the budget as the riders will be the first ones to feel the affect of that. The odds are that Froome and Thomas complete their current contracts and then Sky concentrate on retaining their younger talent.


LVMH reported a turnover of €42 billion in 2017, if it is them I don't forsee any budget cut.


Whether they turn over 100 billion is irrelevant - A sponsor needs to have GOOD REASON to sponsor 40M per year.


Pinarello's value would likely plummet without the results Sky bring.
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Re: Re:

05 Jan 2019 13:52

MatParker117 wrote:
yaco wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:https://www.velonews.com/2019/01/news/sky-rivals-expect-brailsford-to-save-team_482648

Apparently, LVMH the French luxury goods company that owns Pinarello might take over sponsorship. If this does happen would Sky become the Pinarello factory team or would Louis Vuitton be the name sponsor?


I have no doubts they will find a major sponsor or maybe two depending on the budget they think they need. If Sky can't find sponsors no one can. Even with the controversies, there is too much success there to attract sponsors. The obvious question is the budget as the riders will be the first ones to feel the affect of that. The odds are that Froome and Thomas complete their current contracts and then Sky concentrate on retaining their younger talent.


LVMH reported a turnover of €42 billion in 2017, if it is them I don't forsee any budget cut.


Whether they turn over 100 billion is irrelevant - A sponsor needs to have GOOD REASON to sponsor 40M per year.


Pinarello's value would likely plummet without the results Sky bring.


The reported growth rate and revenues in their yearly results have been constant for many years. Sponsoring Movistar didn't change that, getting dumped by Movistar didn't change that, and sponsoring Sky hasn't changed that.

It will eventually stop growing, as there's only so much market, but team sponsorship seems to be irrelevant judging by their yearly accounting summaries
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Re:

05 Jan 2019 14:25

Robert5091 wrote:Louis Vuitton? I expect all the WAGs are keeping their fingers crossed! :)


Louis Vuitton jiffy bags, bring some style to the party.
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Re: Re:

05 Jan 2019 14:52

Rollthedice wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:Louis Vuitton? I expect all the WAGs are keeping their fingers crossed! :)


Louis Vuitton jiffy bags, bring some style to the party.


I suppose LV could just sponsor TdF musettes? :D
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

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Re: Re:

06 Jan 2019 13:19

Robert5091 wrote:
Rollthedice wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:Louis Vuitton? I expect all the WAGs are keeping their fingers crossed! :)


Louis Vuitton jiffy bags, bring some style to the party.


I suppose LV could just sponsor TdF musettes? :D


Louis Vuitton don't do cycling musettes but if they did they would probably...
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

09 Jan 2019 08:31

seems they might be around a little bit longer
According to the Gazzetta dello Sport report, Comcast, the new owner of the Sky brand, "would have guaranteed 70% of the team's budget for 2020 and 2021 (40 million euros per season)"
https://cyclingpro.net/spaziociclismo/worldtour/sky-indiscrezioni-gazzetta-magnate-americano-vicino-allacquisto-intanto-sponsor-pronto-a-garantire-comunque-70-del-budget-per-due-anni/
and in La Gazzetta today
"In 2018 he was the first Welshman to win the Tour and Geraint Thomas has already announced that he will return to the Grande Boucle, with the No. 1 on his back. But it is not yet ruled out that, like Nibali and Dumoulin, the 32 year-old from Sky decides to take part in the Giro d'Italia"
https://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/08-01-2019/thomas-c-ancora-porta-aperta-il-giro-320210895678.shtml
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09 Jan 2019 16:04

MatParker117
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09 Jan 2019 16:07

Could one of these potential sponsors end up at Mitchelton Scott - After all, Gerry Ryan has committed funding for 2 more years and the Chinese option seems to have fallen off the table.
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