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LottoNL-Jumbo

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

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23 Aug 2016 14:21

He had to be pushed up the climb by Gesink. He has no form at all.
User avatar classicomano
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24 Aug 2016 14:58

This might be the most depressing GT TLJ have had a propper GC rider in in years
User avatar SoigneurNL
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24 Aug 2016 15:13

Victory 15 for LottoNL in Poutui-Charentes
The Day Team Sky disappears from cycling I'll truly enjoy watching a mountainous Grand Tour stage again -- former Milan-San Remo winner I interviewed.
User avatar GenericBoonenFan
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Re:

24 Aug 2016 16:08

SoigneurNL wrote:This might be the most depressing GT TLJ have had a propper GC rider in in years

today finally finished it tho.

Wow.

They went into the Giro with no ambition, ended up with Kruijswijk almost winning, probably would have had it with more team support
Then they went in to the Tour with a plan for Groenewegen en Kelderman as free role kinda guy. Kelderman fell and Groenewegen found out that sprinting in the Tour is different. So another plan failed
Then they went to the Vuelta fully committed to Kruijswijk.. And now Kruijswijk got sick before the start and eventually fell out hard today.

LottoNL had made some poor choices but also abysmal luck once again. :lol:
User avatar Dekker_Tifosi
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Re: LottoNL-Jumbo

24 Aug 2016 16:22

Only a breakaway could save the Vuelta for the dutch squad. Bennett seems to be in better shape than Gesink for this task, also Battaglin could be an option.
pablohidalgo7
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24 Aug 2016 17:33

It's incompetence. After 2015 they must've forced at least ONE out of Gesink or Kelderman to slave for Kruijswijk first at the Giro! Groenenwegen certainly could've won a Tour stage in the matter of Erik Dekker instead of challenging the big guns in the sprints.

That they ever fired Erik Breukink is just hilarious. He must've been the only sports director around at that team with some tactical sense.
User avatar staubsauger
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Re: Re:

25 Aug 2016 10:09

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
SoigneurNL wrote:This might be the most depressing GT TLJ have had a propper GC rider in in years

today finally finished it tho.

Wow.

They went into the Giro with no ambition, ended up with Kruijswijk almost winning, probably would have had it with more team support
Then they went in to the Tour with a plan for Groenewegen en Kelderman as free role kinda guy. Kelderman fell and Groenewegen found out that sprinting in the Tour is different. So another plan failed
Then they went to the Vuelta fully committed to Kruijswijk.. And now Kruijswijk got sick before the start and eventually fell out hard today.

LottoNL had made some poor choices but also abysmal luck once again. :lol:


If a rider or a team keeps having abysmal luck, is it still luck or is it someting else?
User avatar SoigneurNL
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Re:

25 Aug 2016 10:11

staubsauger wrote:It's incompetence. After 2015 they must've forced at least ONE out of Gesink or Kelderman to slave for Kruijswijk first at the Giro! Groenenwegen certainly could've won a Tour stage in the matter of Erik Dekker instead of challenging the big guns in the sprints.

That they ever fired Erik Breukink is just hilarious. He must've been the only sports director around at that team with some tactical sense.


Breukink... I miss him. 2010 - 2012 were relative good years for Rabo.
User avatar SoigneurNL
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15 Dec 2017 21:08

I understand the salbutamolgate is the biggest off-season topic, but this one deserves some attention, as well.



Far more entertaining news.
Wonder whether they were sent home 'cause of not sharing with team...

...bet it was some heavy indica.
User avatar sir fly
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Re:

15 Dec 2017 22:35

sir fly wrote:I understand the salbutamolgate is the biggest off-season topic, but this one deserves some attention, as well.



Far more entertaining news.
Wonder whether they were sent home 'cause of not sharing with team...

...bet it was some heavy indica.


I doubt Tolhoek did it fully aware of the consequences. If 3 riders (Including 2 who are on the second year with the squad) don't know the rules, you wonder if they communicated sufficiently about this subject.
The Day Team Sky disappears from cycling I'll truly enjoy watching a mountainous Grand Tour stage again -- former Milan-San Remo winner I interviewed.
User avatar GenericBoonenFan
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Re: Re:

15 Dec 2017 22:54

GenericBoonenFan wrote:
sir fly wrote:I understand the salbutamolgate is the biggest off-season topic, but this one deserves some attention, as well.



Far more entertaining news.
Wonder whether they were sent home 'cause of not sharing with team...

...bet it was some heavy indica.


I doubt Tolhoek did it fully aware of the consequences. If 3 riders (Including 2 who are on the second year with the squad) don't know the rules, you wonder if they communicated sufficiently about this subject.


It's in their contracts...
Der Effe
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16 Dec 2017 13:44

This is probably 10% about non-approved sleeping medication and 90% about the fact they couldn't even awake Lobato and had to call an ambulance. This isn't even a true clinic issue, because it looks more like a case of dependency. You've to take quite a load of Tavor, Zolpidem or Lorazepam to literally narcotize yourself if I'm well informed. At least since the body builds up some tolerance against the pharmaceutical ingredient and won't work as good anymore. Remember the Heath Ledger case? Lobato probably could've killed himself accidentally as well.

(Feel free to move this post into a new clinic topic if it's better placed there moderators.)
User avatar staubsauger
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Re:

16 Dec 2017 14:27

staubsauger wrote:This is probably 10% about non-approved sleeping medication and 90% about the fact they couldn't even awake Lobato and had to call an ambulance. This isn't even a true clinic issue, because it looks more like a case of dependency. You've to take quite a load of Tavor, Zolpidem or Lorazepam to literally narcotize yourself if I'm well informed. At least since the body builds up some tolerance against the pharmaceutical ingredient and won't work as good anymore. Remember the Heath Ledger case? Lobato probably could've killed himself accidentally as well.

(Feel free to move this post into a new clinic topic if it's better placed there moderators.)


It wasn't lorazepam, it was lormetazepam, benzo-class but way more hypnotic. insomnia med
you also don't have to take a lot to trip at all, you just have to fight the urge to sleep. then funny things happen that you will never remember of.
but the serious case is that they combined all that benzo stuff with alcohol. this combo can be deadly even in not big doses.

you're right that it would have been dealt internally if not for lobato scaring the shiit out of them. there are few things scarier than trying to wake up a person who seems in a coma

to me it doesn't seem like these guys had experience with these meds at all, more likely stupid noobs.
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17 Dec 2017 18:03

Lobato is gonna be fired, tomorrow there will be more news about Tolhoek and Eenkhoorn. That's something quite different to how the Murdoch sponsored criminal organisation called Team Sky does business.
Der Effe
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Re:

17 Dec 2017 18:50

Der Effe wrote:Lobato is gonna be fired, tomorrow there will be more news about Tolhoek and Eenkhoorn. That's something quite different to how the Murdoch sponsored criminal organisation called Team Sky does business.

On the other hand, if a rider takes strong doses of sleeping pills, he probably has a problem. I would have hoped that the team shows a bit more support than simply firing him. Take Paolini as an example of how big a sleeping problem can get. I hope Lobato can resolve his issues and continue normal cycling pro life without having to seeking refuge in sleep medication.
PeterB
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Re: Re:

17 Dec 2017 18:55

PeterB wrote:
Der Effe wrote:Lobato is gonna be fired, tomorrow there will be more news about Tolhoek and Eenkhoorn. That's something quite different to how the Murdoch sponsored criminal organisation called Team Sky does business.

On the other hand, if a rider takes strong doses of sleeping pills, he probably has a problem. I would have hoped that the team shows a bit more support than simply firing him. Take Paolini as an example of how big a sleeping problem can get. I hope Lobato can resolve his issues and continue normal cycling pro life without having to seeking refuge in sleep medication.


Apparently we all forget that Tolhoek was the one who brought in the medication and distributed them, or was what I read "fake news"? (Honest Question here)
The Day Team Sky disappears from cycling I'll truly enjoy watching a mountainous Grand Tour stage again -- former Milan-San Remo winner I interviewed.
User avatar GenericBoonenFan
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17 Dec 2017 19:26

Cyclingnews states it was in fact Lobato himself who distributed the sleeping pills. If he really took Zolpidem and Lormetazepam together that's kinda scary IMHO. No matter whether he took them with or without alcohol.

Major issue with sleeping pills is that doctors prefer to prescribe benzodiazepines or Zolpidem rather than better working barbiturates, because like in the case of the late Phyllis Hyman one can still kill himself with a barbiturate overdose. Benzodiazepines got some sort of protective mechanism nowadays that makes you upchuck the agent instead I believe.
User avatar staubsauger
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Re: Re:

17 Dec 2017 20:11

PeterB wrote:
Der Effe wrote:Lobato is gonna be fired, tomorrow there will be more news about Tolhoek and Eenkhoorn. That's something quite different to how the Murdoch sponsored criminal organisation called Team Sky does business.

On the other hand, if a rider takes strong doses of sleeping pills, he probably has a problem. I would have hoped that the team shows a bit more support than simply firing him. Take Paolini as an example of how big a sleeping problem can get. I hope Lobato can resolve his issues and continue normal cycling pro life without having to seeking refuge in sleep medication.


I fully agree with you on that, I really hope that, if necessary, he gets the help he needs.
Der Effe
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17 Dec 2017 20:29

Lobato finding new, imaginative ways to continue ruining his career.
User avatar hrotha
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17 Dec 2017 21:38

It's all a clever plan by Lobato. Gets fired, signs with Euskadi, dominates the spanish .1 calendar, profits...
The Day Team Sky disappears from cycling I'll truly enjoy watching a mountainous Grand Tour stage again -- former Milan-San Remo winner I interviewed.
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