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Who would have Two Big Wins in their Career?

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Who among these will have Two BIG Wins?

Greg Van Avermaet (31)
28
35%
Mikel Landa (27)
4
5%
Diego Rosa (27)
7
9%
Ian Stannard (29)
No votes
Esteban Chavez (27)
26
33%
Rui Costa (30)
5
6%
Sep Vanmarcke (28)
3
4%
Wout Poels (29)
3
4%
Zdenek Stybar (31)
2
3%
Niki Trepstra (32)
1
1%
 
Total votes : 79

Who would have Two Big Wins in their Career?

12 Feb 2017 11:18

These are the three GTs, 5 monuments, OGRR, WCRR
Have two wins and you are assured that you are a legend imo

I have listed 10 riders which are 27 years old and above.
Who among these will have two Big Wins by the end of their career?
Last edited by Asero831 on 12 Feb 2017 22:40, edited 4 times in total.
Asero831
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12 Feb 2017 11:35

There are the under 40 active years old riders that have atleast two career BIG wins

Contador
Boonen
Valverde
Froome
Quintana
Cavendish
Gilbert
Sagan
Cunego
Degenkolb
Martin
Gerrans
Ballan

Recently Retired
Cancellera
Rodriguez
Evans
Schleck
Devolder

Under 27 that can potentially join the elite list
Demare
Bouhani
Aru
Pinot
Bardet
Kwiatkowski
Alaphilippe
Yates Twins
Matthews
Gavaria
Ewan
Last edited by Asero831 on 12 Feb 2017 23:02, edited 2 times in total.
Asero831
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12 Feb 2017 11:46

I think you need to seriously revise that list.

By what stretch of the imagination have, for example, either of the Yates brothers won any race at all of the standard you stipulate, yet alone 2 or more each?

EDIT: That is really bad form, to edit your post so as to make mine appear erroneous, without acknowledging what you have done. At the time of my message, your post did not have the qualification "potential" attached to those U27s.
Last edited by Armchair cyclist on 12 Feb 2017 13:23, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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12 Feb 2017 12:14

Also, just two wins at that level means a lot of people are "legends" that you mightn't otherwise consider.

For example, there are many people whose names are often omitted when we go through the big guns of cycling history, especially given that the big GT champions tend to be more well-known the further back into cycling history you go so unless they win multiple times, people who win a couple of the biggest one-day races are lost to time especially if they don't have anything specific that marks their legend (Simpson's and Monséré's premature deaths, for example). The less controlled nature of one-day racing perhaps figures into that, with the number of surprise winners of one day races massively outnumbering the number of true shock winners in the Grand Tours):
Georges Claes (2x Roubaix)
Prosper Depredomme (2x LBL)
Germain Derycke (you could argue that Derycke deserves a lot more credit in cycling history than he gets, having won San Remo, Roubaix, de Ronde and Liège as well as two World Championships podiums)
Noël Foré (1x Ronde, 1x Roubaix)
Emile Daems (1x Sanremo, 1x Roubaix, 1x Lombardia)
Jo de Roo (2x Lombardia, 1x Ronde)
Joseph Bruyère (2x Liège)

That's just restricting it to post-war, otherwise there are numerous people from the early days of cycling that have won a couple of the big races before the sport as it is today was truly established. All won two or more BIG races by your definition (I'm not going to go into the minefield that is the amateur scene in the split Europe days, as Täve Schur should be considered too if you allow for that with 2x World RR, even if he was never allowed to turn pro and attempt any of the other races mentioned apart from the Olympic RR, although anybody who knows anything about Eastern Bloc cycling knows Täve is most definitely a legend anyway).

The more recent you go, the more well-remembered people are, but do we really think that some of the people who only have two such wins in their career will be remembered in 30-40 years as legends, or will they be respected and revered by those 'in the know' and largely lost to casual fans like the names above? Will people really remember Alessandro Ballan, Stijn Devolder, Simon Gerrans or Dan Martin as legends based on their palmarès at time of writing?
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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12 Feb 2017 12:30

Chaves and GVA are the only two I'd back with any confidence. They're half way there and have quite a lot of opportunities each year to add another, at least compared with the others on the list.

Rui Costa as well perhaps could grab a LBL or Lombardia if there are awful conditions. Depends how he fits in to the new set up I guess.
User avatar DFA123
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12 Feb 2017 12:59

Gerrans won 2 monuments so he should be remembered as a legend forever
portugal11
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Re:

12 Feb 2017 13:57

Libertine Seguros wrote:Also, just two wins at that level means a lot of people are "legends" that you mightn't otherwise consider.

Bingo...Duclos or Madiot are not "legends". Eric Leman (RVV x3) is not a "legend" either IMO.

We could also discuss (again) if all wins are equal, and that's a dangerous road (i.e. two monuments = one GT) that I will not take here. I believe that legends become legends by achieving feats that set them apart. By breaking records and/or belonging to select groups.

To me, active legends of the sport are Contador (so many GT win, fans don't agree how many :D ), Froome (3 TdF), Nibali (all three GTs), Valverde (domination of world rankings since he was in the crib) and Boonen (so many PR and RVV, plus WRRC). I don't have Quintana in just yet, but he'll get there. I think that Sagan will get there. Cavendish needs 35 TdF career stage wins and he'll be a legend. I'm on the fence with Gilbert, leaning towards a yes.

I hope that GVA gets there. And Pinot, of course ;) .

There's nothing wrong if a great rider doesn't achieve "legend" status IMO. Only a handful of champions get there per generation. That's what makes them so special.
When I woke up and saw the yellow jersey that I had left by my bed the night before, I asked myself: "what are you doing in Merckx's bedroom?" I couldn't believe it - Bernard Thevenet
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12 Feb 2017 14:09

Yeah, Nibz, Valv, Contador and Boonen are legends. Sagan will with 99% certainty also be one, as a matter of fact, he is probably pretty close already. Assuming Phil Gil won't win Flanders and such, I don't think he is a legend. Not consistent enough. One super spectacular season is not enough for me.

Cav is probably the most intriguing. Its not a rider I will remember, but many will. After all, he has a monument + WCRR and obviously all those stages. He will need to tie or beat Eddy, but still won't be a rider I'll tell my children about due to HOW he won.
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Re:

12 Feb 2017 14:37

Valv.Piti wrote:Yeah, Nibz, Valv, Contador and Boonen are legends. Sagan will with 99% certainty also be one, as a matter of fact, he is probably pretty close already. Assuming Phil Gil won't win Flanders and such, I don't think he is a legend. Not consistent enough. One super spectacular season is not enough for me.

Cav is probably the most intriguing. Its not a rider I will remember, but many will. After all, he has a monument + WCRR and obviously all those stages. He will need to tie or beat Eddy, but still won't be a rider I'll tell my children about due to HOW he won.

Maybe because you don't like sprinters or sprint stages.
portugal11
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12 Feb 2017 14:49

I think broadness or significant record(s) will push a rider towards legendary status. On the active list we only have Boonen, Cav and Contador imo.

Whos next in line to get to big wins? I see GvA or Terpstra if he gets to ride for himself soon.
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12 Feb 2017 16:27

2 big wins is not at all enough to make you a legend. In my book none of the riders in that list will go down as legends.

As to getting another victory on the big stage I'd only back Chavez with 100% confidence.
''The battle between Démare and Bouhanni for being France's best sprinter is decided: it's Coquard.'' - BBB
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Re:

12 Feb 2017 16:30

Valv.Piti wrote:Yeah, Nibz, Valv, Contador and Boonen are legends. Sagan will with 99% certainty also be one, as a matter of fact, he is probably pretty close already. Assuming Phil Gil won't win Flanders and such, I don't think he is a legend. Not consistent enough. One super spectacular season is not enough for me.

Cav is probably the most intriguing. Its not a rider I will remember, but many will. After all, he has a monument + WCRR and obviously all those stages. He will need to tie or beat Eddy, but still won't be a rider I'll tell my children about due to HOW he won.


The reason Sagan isn't a legend yet is due to his age. Legend has an elder and veteran connotation attached to it.

He is the best bike rider most of us will ever get the chance to see.
''The battle between Démare and Bouhanni for being France's best sprinter is decided: it's Coquard.'' - BBB
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Re: Who would have Two Big Wins in their Career?

12 Feb 2017 16:49

Of the ones under 27 I think Kwiatkowski and Gaviria have the best shot at getting two big wins in his career. Kwiat is a really good allrounder and PR is the only big one day race I'm sure he won't win and Gaviria is simply such an impressive rider at his age that I think only big injuries can hold him off that list.
I would have been pretty sure that Aru will win another gt after his Vuelta win 2015 but after his very disappointing last season I'm not so sure anymore. Then again I think he is still 10 times more likely to get two big wins than Ian Stannard.

And about being a legend after winning two big races, I agree with most other people. You have to win way more than that to call yourself a legend. Or do you think in 30 years people will still talk about the incredible cycling legend Dan Martin?
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Re: Re:

12 Feb 2017 17:06

portugal11 wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:Yeah, Nibz, Valv, Contador and Boonen are legends. Sagan will with 99% certainty also be one, as a matter of fact, he is probably pretty close already. Assuming Phil Gil won't win Flanders and such, I don't think he is a legend. Not consistent enough. One super spectacular season is not enough for me.

Cav is probably the most intriguing. Its not a rider I will remember, but many will. After all, he has a monument + WCRR and obviously all those stages. He will need to tie or beat Eddy, but still won't be a rider I'll tell my children about due to HOW he won.

Maybe because you don't like sprinters or sprint stages.

I don't riders who only can sprint (fortunately, we have many versatile fast-men right now) and no, I don't like pure sprint stages and think they should be kept at a minimum (3-4 in each GT). However, my favourite rider behind Quintana and Valv is, with quite some distance actually, Gaviria. Everything isn't that black/white. ;)
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12 Feb 2017 17:42

Holy Trinity of current peloton are Boonen, Contador and Valverde. Legendary status also have Nibali and Froome. Cav is quite close, with Gilbert and Sagan, although I think Phil Gil will never reach that status opposite to other two. Quintana is on a good path too, and that's about it for now...
User avatar Mr.White
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12 Feb 2017 17:48

You need to fix your poll. Delete a selection, save, then re-add it, save, and the poll will work.

Btw, of your list, I'd probably vote Chaves and GVA, though I seriously considered a couple other guys. I'd have also voted for Kwia - imo he deserves to be in the poll above everyone else you have there.
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Re:

12 Feb 2017 18:04

jaylew wrote:You need to fix your poll. Delete a selection, save, then re-add it, save, and the poll will work.

Btw, of your list, I'd probably vote Chaves and GVA,

Same here :)
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Re:

12 Feb 2017 19:10

Mr.White wrote:Holy Trinity of current peloton are Boonen, Contador and Valverde. Legendary status also have Nibali and Froome. Cav is quite close, with Gilbert and Sagan, although I think Phil Gil will never reach that status opposite to other two. Quintana is on a good path too, and that's about it for now...


Froome's infamous and the majority will try to forget him. Quintana lacks the charisma do be a legend.

I think Gilbert is up there. Sorta.
''The battle between Démare and Bouhanni for being France's best sprinter is decided: it's Coquard.'' - BBB
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12 Feb 2017 19:16

Cunego is a prime example of someone who did incredible things early in his career (3 monuments + a GT) who isn't considered a legend by everyone because his greatness wasn't sustained for a really long time. And he's still active!
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12 Feb 2017 19:29

It's not just about wins and records.
Let's be real, how many of you think that Erik Zabel shoul be considered a legend?
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