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Who would have Two Big Wins in their Career?

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Who among these will have Two BIG Wins?

Greg Van Avermaet (31)
28
35%
Mikel Landa (27)
4
5%
Diego Rosa (27)
7
9%
Ian Stannard (29)
No votes
Esteban Chavez (27)
26
33%
Rui Costa (30)
5
6%
Sep Vanmarcke (28)
3
4%
Wout Poels (29)
3
4%
Zdenek Stybar (31)
2
3%
Niki Trepstra (32)
1
1%
 
Total votes : 79

Re: Who would have Two Big Wins in their Career?

16 Feb 2017 20:21

I love this thread :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar Gigs_98
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2017 20:31

El Pistolero wrote:
barmaher wrote:This forum gets more and more crazy. The google thing is the most ridiculous way to compare riders. Especially as Pantani had a tempestuous last few years, with expulsions, doping bans, bizarre media appearances and a tragic death accounting for thousands of media coverage than Indurain, who retired back to rural Spain.


Well yeah, that's what makes him a legend. That's what makes Ché Guevarra a legend or mythical hero. You know who lived to old age and isn't considered a hero or legend? Fidel Castro. But if he had died around the same time as Ché...

It's not just results, but your lifestyle, personality and racing behavior that determines if you become a legend.


Castro aint considered a hero by the Cuban people? :lol:
Oh god, dude. Please do continue. A few posts and views more and we are reaching legendary status here. :lol:
"This is the Tour that will determine If I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
User avatar Valv.Piti
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16 Feb 2017 20:42

If any Cuban thinks of Castro as a legend or hero, it has to be because of false consciousness. A dictator who has ruined his country. Imagine where Cuba could've been today if it wasn't for that scum.
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
User avatar Netserk
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Re:

16 Feb 2017 20:53

Netserk wrote:If any Cuban thinks of Castro as a legend or hero, it has to be because of false consciousness. A dictator who has ruined his country. Imagine where Cuba could've been today if it wasn't for that scum.

No it really doesn't. Ché is obviously more of a cult figure (at least in the rest of the world), but Castro was beloved by many, many Cubans. While communism and socialism rarely have led to something good (or what was perceived as communism/socialism), the previous dictatorship in Cuba was disastrous and Castro at least provided food and housing for people who had nothing. That many Cubans will forever remember Castro for despite the many shortcomings of socialism.
"This is the Tour that will determine If I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
User avatar Valv.Piti
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2017 20:54

El Pistolero wrote:
barmaher wrote:This forum gets more and more crazy. The google thing is the most ridiculous way to compare riders. Especially as Pantani had a tempestuous last few years, with expulsions, doping bans, bizarre media appearances and a tragic death accounting for thousands of media coverage than Indurain, who retired back to rural Spain.


Well yeah, that's what makes him a legend. That's what makes Ché Guevarra a legend or mythical hero. You know who lived to old age and isn't considered a hero or legend? Fidel Castro. But if he had died around the same time as Ché...

It's not just results, but your lifestyle, personality and racing behavior that determines if you become a legend.

maybe if you're a nut job communist
rick james
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2017 20:59

Valv.Piti wrote:
Netserk wrote:If any Cuban thinks of Castro as a legend or hero, it has to be because of false consciousness. A dictator who has ruined his country. Imagine where Cuba could've been today if it wasn't for that scum.

No it really doesn't. Ché is obviously more of a cult figure (at least in the rest of the world), but Castro was beloved by many, many Cubans. While communism and socialism rarely have led to something good (or what was perceived as communism/socialism), the previous dictatorship in Cuba was disastrous and Castro at least provided food and housing for people who had nothing. That many Cubans will forever remember Castro for despite the many shortcomings of socialism.

Yeah, in fantasy world where he shortly afterwards made Cuba democratic. In the real world, people are worse of in Cuba now than before Castro (compared to neighbor countries).

I guess communism was a great thing in Russia as well. At least they came after the Tzar...
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2017 21:08

Netserk wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
Netserk wrote:If any Cuban thinks of Castro as a legend or hero, it has to be because of false consciousness. A dictator who has ruined his country. Imagine where Cuba could've been today if it wasn't for that scum.

No it really doesn't. Ché is obviously more of a cult figure (at least in the rest of the world), but Castro was beloved by many, many Cubans. While communism and socialism rarely have led to something good (or what was perceived as communism/socialism), the previous dictatorship in Cuba was disastrous and Castro at least provided food and housing for people who had nothing. That many Cubans will forever remember Castro for despite the many shortcomings of socialism.

Yeah, in fantasy world where he shortly afterwards made Cuba democratic. In the real world, people are worse of in Cuba now than before Castro (compared to neighbor countries).

I guess communism was a great thing in Russia as well. At least they came after the Tzar...

I don't argue Cuba is better off being socialistic. I argue why many Cubans forever will be grateful of Castro and therefore see him as a hero. Dont shift the goalposts - that was my only point. I even pointed out that communism/socialism rarely has led to anything good - you can even argue it never has. ;)
"This is the Tour that will determine If I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
User avatar Valv.Piti
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16 Feb 2017 21:10

So if Marlon Brando died in a car accident in the late 50s rather than James Dean, it would be Brando who would be icon and a bloated Dean doing the Isle of Doctor Moreau.
Nick C.
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2017 21:22

Valv.Piti wrote:
Netserk wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
Netserk wrote:If any Cuban thinks of Castro as a legend or hero, it has to be because of false consciousness. A dictator who has ruined his country. Imagine where Cuba could've been today if it wasn't for that scum.

No it really doesn't. Ché is obviously more of a cult figure (at least in the rest of the world), but Castro was beloved by many, many Cubans. While communism and socialism rarely have led to something good (or what was perceived as communism/socialism), the previous dictatorship in Cuba was disastrous and Castro at least provided food and housing for people who had nothing. That many Cubans will forever remember Castro for despite the many shortcomings of socialism.

Yeah, in fantasy world where he shortly afterwards made Cuba democratic. In the real world, people are worse of in Cuba now than before Castro (compared to neighbor countries).

I guess communism was a great thing in Russia as well. At least they came after the Tzar...

I don't argue Cuba is better off being socialistic. I argue why many Cubans forever will be grateful of Castro and therefore see him as a hero. Dont shift the goalposts - that was my only point. I even pointed out that communism/socialism rarely has led to anything good - you can even argue it never has. ;)

I don't doubt that some are grateful. It's just obvious that it is due to false consciousness. Not easy to combat that in a country that doesn't have a free press.
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
User avatar Netserk
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Re:

16 Feb 2017 21:29

Netserk wrote:Imagine where Cuba could've been today if it wasn't for that scum.


Yes, it could be a giant brothel run by the US mafia and brutal local oligarchs as it was before "that scum". Castro ran a dictatorship and has only ever tolerated dissent within very limited bounds. He's no hero of mine. But the reasons why he is popular in Cuba are neither complicated nor irrational. As for a free press, Cuba certainly doesn't have one, but it is also not North Korea. Cubans have a reasonably accurate picture of life elsewhere, many have been abroad and while the internet is slow and (ineffectually) censored, even more have internet access. They are well aware that there are many countries where most people are considerably richer. They are also aware that many countries are poorer and also that in most countries poorer citizens do not have the guaranteed healthcare, education, employment, housing and food that everyone in Cuba has. Would I move their from Ireland? No. Would I move there from Haiti? As fast as I could.
Last edited by Zinoviev Letter on 16 Feb 2017 21:40, edited 1 time in total.
Zinoviev Letter
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16 Feb 2017 21:34

And where the hell the press is free?!
User avatar Mr.White
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2017 22:47

Valv.Piti wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
barmaher wrote:This forum gets more and more crazy. The google thing is the most ridiculous way to compare riders. Especially as Pantani had a tempestuous last few years, with expulsions, doping bans, bizarre media appearances and a tragic death accounting for thousands of media coverage than Indurain, who retired back to rural Spain.


Well yeah, that's what makes him a legend. That's what makes Ché Guevarra a legend or mythical hero. You know who lived to old age and isn't considered a hero or legend? Fidel Castro. But if he had died around the same time as Ché...

It's not just results, but your lifestyle, personality and racing behavior that determines if you become a legend.


Castro aint considered a hero by the Cuban people? :lol:
Oh god, dude. Please do continue. A few posts and views more and we are reaching legendary status here. :lol:


I'm sure there are also people who consider Hitler a hero, but that's not really the point. Go look online and you'll see that the opinion on Castro is very mixed. Some think he's the devil incarnate, some think he's a saint and then there's the people who have a more balanced opinion of him.

You're not going to see Western people wearing t-shirts with Castro's face on.
User avatar El Pistolero
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16 Feb 2017 22:57

I wanted to write '3,2,1...' after Mr. White's post in anticipation of the first post mentioning Hitler, but didn't do it cause I thought it would look stupid


Dammit
kingjr
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16 Feb 2017 23:12

Last two pages are brilliant. Thanks El Pistolero. You've really broadened my view on the world.

Did you know that Trump is twice as good a president as Obama according to google?

And life in China is over six times as good as in Denmark.
Breh
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17 Feb 2017 00:43

Well, if there's one thing we can say it's that this thread has made Pisti a forum legend!
User avatar jaylew
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Re:

17 Feb 2017 01:44

El Pistolero wrote:By the way, Indurain is not a legend. Pantani is.

Google their name: Indurain gives you 1 million hits, Pantani gives you over 2 million hits.

Youtube: Indurain: 32000 results, Pantani: 75000 results.
Image
User avatar 42x16ss
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Re:

17 Feb 2017 15:02

Breh wrote:Last two pages are brilliant. Thanks El Pistolero. You've really broadened my view on the world.

Did you know that Trump is twice as good a president as Obama according to google?

And life in China is over six times as good as in Denmark.


Being a legend, or being rememberable has nothing to do with being "good" or "bad though.

And yes, China is a much more beautiful country than Denmark, with more history, impressive architecture, culture and beautiful landscapes. Not exactly a fair comparison given the size of the two countries though.
User avatar El Pistolero
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Re:

17 Feb 2017 15:04

jaylew wrote:Well, if there's one thing we can say it's that this thread has made Pisti a forum legend!


I already was one. :lol: I'm just extending my legendary status here!
User avatar El Pistolero
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17 Feb 2017 17:53

Last time I checked this thread we were talking about picking cycling legends with Google hits.

Now we are talking about Fidel Castro and Cuba????? hahahaha. And recently diverted to Trump. Hope they don't shut this down because it has given me the best laugh in a long time. :D :D :D
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Re: Re:

18 Feb 2017 08:48

El Pistolero wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
barmaher wrote:This forum gets more and more crazy. The google thing is the most ridiculous way to compare riders. Especially as Pantani had a tempestuous last few years, with expulsions, doping bans, bizarre media appearances and a tragic death accounting for thousands of media coverage than Indurain, who retired back to rural Spain.


Well yeah, that's what makes him a legend. That's what makes Ché Guevarra a legend or mythical hero. You know who lived to old age and isn't considered a hero or legend? Fidel Castro. But if he had died around the same time as Ché...

It's not just results, but your lifestyle, personality and racing behavior that determines if you become a legend.


Castro aint considered a hero by the Cuban people? :lol:
Oh god, dude. Please do continue. A few posts and views more and we are reaching legendary status here. :lol:


I'm sure there are also people who consider Hitler a hero, but that's not really the point. Go look online and you'll see that the opinion on Castro is very mixed. Some think he's the devil incarnate, some think he's a saint and then there's the people who have a more balanced opinion of him.

You're not going to see Western people wearing t-shirts with Castro's face on.

Bam! Godwin's Law proved right:

Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies) is an Internet adage which asserts that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1" —​​that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
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