Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen, Valv.Piti
rhubroma wrote:Tonton wrote:Yep, I saw that gap open, and I thought that was it. Kwiat said that he did it in purpose to get Sagan to react and launch the sprint? I'm not so sure that I buy it, he almost got vino-ed. So he was happy to win and made a brash statement: I'm not so sure that I buy it. In the heat of the moment, post race, I don't know. Both Kwiat and Alaphilippe knew that Sagan had committed when he attacked and did most of the work, they knew that he wouldn't bluff and slow down, risk to lose it all. That predictability puts Sagan at a disadvantage. I don't blame him, though. If we got this fantastic finish, that's thanks to him. The guy is a treasure.
I don't get what all the discussion about. Kwait said, which was obvious to moi, that he backed off Sagan's wheel to take advantage of his slipstream and induce him to launch his sprint from too far out. It's not like it's a super original strategy. To the contrary, it's elementary my dear Watson. What is somewhat unbelievable, however, is that a rider of Sagan's class (though admittedly what nature gave to his body, took from his wits) fell so disasterously for it. There is no doubt that Sagan was not only the strongest rider, his attack on the Poggio showed that, but also the fastest. And it was only a lack of race acumen and the necessary sangue freddo (which is kind of surprising, giving the detached, laid back and nonchalant persona he cultivates for himself in the media) to time his sprint properly that prooved fatal.
Proof that Sagan was hoodwinked and that Kwait had set him up, we read in what they respectively said post race (as quoted in today's la Gazetta dello Sport). Sagan: "Then, when I saw 'Kwait' had lost a few meters I went. There were 300, perhaps 250 meters to go. I don't know. They were too many..." Kwait: "I knew that Sagan was faster. I played with him tactically. I left a small gap, which I knew I could close. I saw that Peter looked back (at me). Then I came back to him taking advantage of the slipstream. It's a tactic you learn on the track."
Look, and I'm not making this up, when Sagan launched his sprint at the front from that far out, I literally jumped from the couch and shouted "No! It's too soon! You're gonna get nipped at the line by Kwait!" And that's exactly what happened. Obviously Sagan didn't hear me and preferred suicide. Sagan though he could win on brute strenght. But in the end he was a victim of his own plan, because with that setting he left himself no alternative. And the legs aren't infinite.
that's really a biased one ! even Julian distanced himKwiat was getting on that wheel either way, he didn't need Alaphillipe.
i suggest to you Peter's victory at Flandersthis is one of the best tactical performances I've seen for some time.
i don't think we saw the 6.5 final kms !I don't see anything to definitely say one way or another who was strongest.
aka the Doha Worlds. MSR dosen't count a lot for him, when it really matters (Worlds, Flanders, Roubaix) he is a Killer.Sagan doesn't seem to have the cold calculating mind when it really counts
sQiD wrote:aka the Doha Worlds. MSR dosen't count a lot for him , when it really matters (Worlds, Flanders, Roubaix) he is a Killer.Sagan doesn't seem to have the cold calculating mind when it really counts
Kwibus wrote:So much questions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
rhubroma wrote:Tonton wrote:Yep, I saw that gap open, and I thought that was it. Kwiat said that he did it in purpose to get Sagan to react and launch the sprint? I'm not so sure that I buy it, he almost got vino-ed. So he was happy to win and made a brash statement: I'm not so sure that I buy it. In the heat of the moment, post race, I don't know. Both Kwiat and Alaphilippe knew that Sagan had committed when he attacked and did most of the work, they knew that he wouldn't bluff and slow down, risk to lose it all. That predictability puts Sagan at a disadvantage. I don't blame him, though. If we got this fantastic finish, that's thanks to him. The guy is a treasure.
I don't get what all the discussion about. Kwait said, which was obvious to moi, that he backed off Sagan's wheel to take advantage of his slipstream and induce him to launch his sprint from too far out. It's not like it's a super original strategy. To the contrary, it's elementary my dear Watson. What is somewhat unbelievable, however, is that a rider of Sagan's class (though admittedly what nature gave to his body, took from his wits) fell so disasterously for it. There is no doubt that Sagan was not only the strongest rider, his attack on the Poggio showed that, but also the fastest. And it was only a lack of race acumen and the necessary sangue freddo (which is kind of surprising, giving the detached, laid back and nonchalant persona he cultivates for himself in the media) to time his sprint properly that prooved fatal.
Proof that Sagan was hoodwinked and that Kwait had set him up, we read in what they respectively said post race (as quoted in today's la Gazetta dello Sport). Sagan: "Then, when I saw 'Kwait' had lost a few meters I went. There were 300, perhaps 250 meters to go. I don't know. They were too many..." Kwait: "I knew that Sagan was faster. I played with him tactically. I left a small gap, which I knew I could close. I saw that Peter looked back (at me). Then I came back to him taking advantage of the slipstream. It's a tactic you learn on the track."
Look, and I'm not making this up, when Sagan launched his sprint at the front from that far out, I literally jumped from the couch and shouted "No! It's too soon! You're gonna get nipped at the line by Kwait!" And that's exactly what happened. Obviously Sagan didn't hear me and preferred suicide. Sagan though he could win on brute strenght. But in the end he was a victim of his own plan, because with that setting he left himself no alternative. And the legs aren't infinite.
I say that MSR count less for Peter compared to Flanders and Roubaix. In 2012, he said that those two races are his dream. He got Flanders last year, so the next big target is Roubaix.tobydawq wrote:sQiD wrote:aka the Doha Worlds. MSR dosen't count a lot for him , when it really matters (Worlds, Flanders, Roubaix) he is a Killer.Sagan doesn't seem to have the cold calculating mind when it really counts
Yeah, you keep saying that MSR doesn't matter that much to him. I really think you are wrong about that and I would like to know why you would think that? My guess is that it is primarily denial on your part - but he cannot be expected to just ride alone to the finish on any type of parcours.
As far as I saw it, he was maximising his chances by attacking on the Poggio and then he was unfortunate with the company he got.
And believe me, it really mattered yesterday as well.
It's just that brute force will take you longer on the cobbles (even though it was extremely close to taking him to the victory yesterday) but that doesn't mean that MSR doesn't count as well.
In fact, I think he was extremely disappointed after the race, which he just never shows.
Tonton wrote:Yep, you don't get my point...which is that Kwiat may have been more opportunistic than calculating and provoking the gap and Sagan's subsequent move. If he did, brilliant. If he didn't, still briliant, he won. But it seems to me that Kwiat was looking a lot over his shoulder not to be jumped by Balaphilippe and be boxed in, and that may have provoked the gap. That was my read when watching the race, and I watched it again. And I'm "not so sure". It's obvious to toi, not to moi. Disagree all you want, it's fine, and maybe you're right: it's a forum, isn't it? And we can disagree.
Of course he wants to win it, but in terms of his priorities this season it just comes second after Roubaix.Tonton wrote:I disagree with that. Sagan wants to win everything at least once, that how champions are. He wants and he can win every monument. He wants MSR. Otherwise, why get on the saddle, ride 291 km...seriously. He's disappointed, he's not showing it, but deep inside it hurts. He has been close, and he knows that he can win this thing. And I hope that one day, he will.
I totally agree with you. After all, he lost to someone who worked with him last year at Flanders, so it's less hurting than losing to GVA.sprints n stones wrote:Think the reason he showed regret after OHN was bizarrely no-one had updated him that the race carried World Tour points. He definitely seemed to be using that race as practice. Dropping to the back of group just before the climbs to make it harder as he had to work past other riders uphill. I think MSR did matter as my commentator kept mentioning no-one had won it wearing World Championship jersey since 1983 ( think it was ) Kwiat is an old adverserery from his Junior days and he is resigned to sometimes losing to him. My opinion is he doesn't like losing to GVA as they are regarded as having similar skill set and losing to him means he could have won but did something wrong.
Return to Professional road racing
Users browsing this forum: aarononymous, Cance > TheRest, DNP-Old, Eyeballs Out, Flat Out, Forever The Best, Google Adsense [Bot], Laplaz, Lemonbaloon, thanosk, UselessToo and 78 guests
Back to top