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2017 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya, March 20-26, WT

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

20 Mar 2017 15:59

Cimolai
Bouhanni
Sbaragli
Smith
Greipel
User avatar Lexman
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 15:59

therhodeo wrote:
rick james wrote:
therhodeo wrote:I would have zero problem with TTT's like this if there was less salary disparity among teams.

lol...what???


Basically a salary cap like US football. Levels the playing field. Its not about how good the top rider is. Its about being able to afford a full lineup of top talent.

Salary cap is a soft-cap in football and it has been unsuccessful partly due to disparity in tax rates and other regional perks and partly because you can always shift the money around in unintended ways to subvert the system. Many NFL teams are not competitive even while they are far over the cap. Then some teams make the playoffs virtually every season. Once you fall behind in managing the cap, the only way to come in under or close to the cap is to sign contract extensions you wouldn't want to sign but you take the long term loss as it transfers towards the next season's cap once signed.

These types of things would be multiplied on an international scale. Some salaries would be taxed 0-1% others 40%. Also, a mandatory minimum rider salary would still be required to be competitive with Diet Sky. This would put an enormous pressure on most teams.

The bottom line is that after Salary Cap in the NFL the top tier salaries continued to rise exponentially and they just started filling the roster with more and more rookies driving the average career down to less than 2 seasons. The contracts signed are always optimistic estimates of what will happen and so when it comes time for the team to terminate the contract a few years early all the money they owe suddenly counts towards this years salary cap. Its a nightmare for all but the privileged few teams that manage to keep their operating cash on hand equal to their cap utilization by balancing dozens of prorated forms of payment (signing bonus, roster bonus, performance incentives, etc) all with random due dates.
User avatar myrideissteelerthanyours
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20 Mar 2017 16:00

Cimoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!
Alberto we love you
on the road
you don't need to say this stuff
we saw you on the road
you blessed us with 9 great shows
let's not argue the toss about the official count
you are much bigger than that
~TourOfSardinia
User avatar LaFlorecita
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20 Mar 2017 16:00

Stage top 10
Image
Last edited by TourOfSardinia on 20 Mar 2017 16:01, edited 1 time in total.
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20 Mar 2017 16:01

http://www.edosof.com/carrera/112/etapas#cajaetapas

Results

First BMC and Trek quite far down. That could mean they'll have to start early tomorrow

Edit: apparently FDJ will start last and before that the reverse order of the team classification.
Trek are 21st in the team classification, BMC 18th
Last edited by LaFlorecita on 20 Mar 2017 16:04, edited 1 time in total.
Alberto we love you
on the road
you don't need to say this stuff
we saw you on the road
you blessed us with 9 great shows
let's not argue the toss about the official count
you are much bigger than that
~TourOfSardinia
User avatar LaFlorecita
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20 Mar 2017 16:02

Thank goodness that jerk didn't win.
The poster formerly known as yespatterns.
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Re:

20 Mar 2017 16:04

GraftPunk wrote:Thank goodness that jerk didn't win.


Jesus man, take a chill
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 16:05

Valv.Piti wrote:
Singer01 wrote:Why doesn't everyone calm the f down and wait and see what the ttt does to the race? I wasn't expecting paris-nice to be amazing, but it was the finest stage race of the last 5 years.

Indeed, some people are going into overdrive because it doesn't necessarily fit their favourite rider.


It's just not ideal for a one week stage race. There are not enough opportunities available to make up the potential time loss resulting from the TTT. Certainly the incentive behind some posts here is that it disadvantages a rider or team that they support but that doesn't change the fact that it gives a decided advantage to certain teams and riders for those teams.
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Re:

20 Mar 2017 16:05

GraftPunk wrote:Thank goodness that jerk didn't win.



my thoughts exactly
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20 Mar 2017 16:11

Damn it! Went too soon.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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20 Mar 2017 16:20

A good result for Cimolai, he was already really strong in MSR when he was working for Demare.
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 16:49

TommyGun wrote:
GraftPunk wrote:Thank goodness that jerk didn't win.


Jesus man, take a chill


I'm very chill. To me he is an extremely unlikeable rider prone to violence, who has an inability to keep his line... I simply expressed that opinion succinctly. Cheers!
The poster formerly known as yespatterns.
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 17:01

Angliru wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
Singer01 wrote:Why doesn't everyone calm the f down and wait and see what the ttt does to the race? I wasn't expecting paris-nice to be amazing, but it was the finest stage race of the last 5 years.

Indeed, some people are going into overdrive because it doesn't necessarily fit their favourite rider.


It's just not ideal for a one week stage race. There are not enough opportunities available to make up the potential time loss resulting from the TTT. Certainly the incentive behind some posts here is that it disadvantages a rider or team that they support but that doesn't change the fact that it gives a decided advantage to certain teams and riders for those teams.


They know what the stages are like well in advance, so why can't they pick a team that will give them the best opportunity of limiting time loss/making most time in the TTT if that is possibly gonna be the deciding stage? If they can't make up a decent team for their team leader, then send a B team and send their A team to a stage race that suits their team more. The powers that be can't make everyone happy.
wheresmybrakes
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 17:09

wheresmybrakes wrote:
They know what the stages are like well in advance, so why can't they pick a team that will give them the best opportunity of limiting time loss/making most time in the TTT if that is possibly gonna be the deciding stage? If they can't make up a decent team for their team leader, then send a B team and send their A team to a stage race that suits their team more. The powers that be can't make everyone happy.

Being a GC rider on a weak team isn't a big enough disadvantage already, best make achieving a good result even harder by giving them 2 minutes to make up vs the stronger teams :lol:
Alberto we love you
on the road
you don't need to say this stuff
we saw you on the road
you blessed us with 9 great shows
let's not argue the toss about the official count
you are much bigger than that
~TourOfSardinia
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Re: 2017 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya, March 20-26, WT

20 Mar 2017 17:37

For a moment I thought that Froome was the Sky rider who attacked with 2 kms to go. :lol:
Wij steunen hem, tenzij hij niet genoeg fietst.
Anderis
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20 Mar 2017 18:28

I don't understand why outside bets for the GC don't take much bigger gambles with their teams - especially in the Tour de France, where Froome and Sky are so dominant. Riders like Bardet, Aru, Porte, Pinot and maybe even Contador in the Tour - guys who aren't realistically going to win barring some kind of freak event or a series of crashes.

Instead of going in with a team of 3/4 rouleurs and 4 climbers - nearly all of whom will get dropped early anyway - why not go with a team of 7 rouleurs / classics guys and no climbers, and try to wreak havoc on flat stages, where there is the potential to gain enough time to win a GT. Sure, you'd be vulnerable in the mountains if you ever had to defend yellow, but at least you'd have a chance of getting into yellow and giving Sky a really different problem, rather than allowing them to just shell ineffectual climbing domestiques one by one on mountain stages, with the likes of Poels and Landa riding tempo.

Perhaps they just value finishing highly too much and want the option to defend their 3rd place or whatever. Which is a shame.
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Re:

20 Mar 2017 18:34

DFA123 wrote:I don't understand why outside bets for the GC don't take much bigger gambles with their teams - especially in the Tour de France, where Froome and Sky are so dominant. Riders like Bardet, Aru, Porte, Pinot and maybe even Contador in the Tour - guys who aren't realistically going to win barring some kind of freak event or a series of crashes.

Instead of going in with a team of 3/4 rouleurs and 4 climbers - nearly all of whom will get dropped early anyway - why not go with a team of 7 rouleurs / classics guys and no climbers, and try to wreak havoc on flat stages, where there is the potential to gain enough time to win a GT. Sure, you'd be vulnerable in the mountains if you ever had to defend yellow, but at least you'd have a chance of getting into yellow and giving Sky a really different problem, rather than allowing them to just shell ineffectual climbing domestiques one by one on mountain stages, with the likes of Poels and Landa riding tempo.

Perhaps they just value finishing highly too much and want the option to defend their 3rd place or whatever. Which is a shame.


Exactly my argument since the last TDF - The GC rider only needs two mountain domestiques, preferably strong domesiques - The rouleurs/classic riders can help in medium mountains, as well as potentially creating havoc in the flatter sections.
yaco
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20 Mar 2017 18:54

888SPORT
BMC @ 1,50
Sky @ 3,60
Movistar @ 6,00
Trek @ 21,00
Orica @ 23,00

Movistar @ 6,00 looks good, but BMC obviously the favourites. I don't see Sky being better than Movistar tomorrow.
Rise, Zomegnanists!
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 19:08

yaco wrote:
DFA123 wrote:I don't understand why outside bets for the GC don't take much bigger gambles with their teams - especially in the Tour de France, where Froome and Sky are so dominant. Riders like Bardet, Aru, Porte, Pinot and maybe even Contador in the Tour - guys who aren't realistically going to win barring some kind of freak event or a series of crashes.

Instead of going in with a team of 3/4 rouleurs and 4 climbers - nearly all of whom will get dropped early anyway - why not go with a team of 7 rouleurs / classics guys and no climbers, and try to wreak havoc on flat stages, where there is the potential to gain enough time to win a GT. Sure, you'd be vulnerable in the mountains if you ever had to defend yellow, but at least you'd have a chance of getting into yellow and giving Sky a really different problem, rather than allowing them to just shell ineffectual climbing domestiques one by one on mountain stages, with the likes of Poels and Landa riding tempo.

Perhaps they just value finishing highly too much and want the option to defend their 3rd place or whatever. Which is a shame.


Exactly my argument since the last TDF - The GC rider only needs two mountain domestiques, preferably strong domesiques - The rouleurs/classic riders can help in medium mountains, as well as potentially creating havoc in the flatter sections.


It's not just Sky, they'll have to deal with all the other teams in the GC top10 aswell. And the massive amount of teams aiming for a sprint.
Breh
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20 Mar 2017 21:49

What's the tie-breaker for the team classification when multiple teams have the same time? Isn't it the sum of the positions of the best 3 riders? I did the math following this method and I found some slight differences with the official classification. For instance, Sunweb and Ag2r have the same sum but the order is inverted (3rd Ag2r rider arrived in 70th, 3rd Sunweb rider arrived in 88th) and Katusha - Alpecin should be after Trek (Trek have a sum of 172 and Katusha of 217). Also, Trek and Lotto are tied but 3rd Trek rider was 65th and 3rd Lotto rider was 107th.
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