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I don't get the Gerrans hate

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19 Mar 2017 12:47

No reason to hate of course, but some of the criticism is warranted. What LS wrote is pretty much spot on. Yes, part of it is also tactics, but that doesn't mean we have to like the guy for it - especially when he whines about it afterwards saying he had the legs but did no turn at the front.

Even if it might be in the best interest of a rider to do things a certain way that doesn't mean we have to like it and we can blast it as boring if we want to. Sky 2012 for instance. It was in the best interest of Wiggins to keep the race dead boring and they were rightfully loathed for it. Yes it was tactics, but that doesn't mean we have to sit there and take it on the chin.
User avatar jsem94
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

19 Mar 2017 14:03

Why the hell are there people arguing that the hate is irrational because he has a great talent and is a strong rider. Since when has that anything to do with whether you like someone or not. If that was an indicator Sky would be the most popular team and guys like Wllens not popular at all.
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19 Mar 2017 14:04

He is not any different from Matthews (mostly a mega-wheelsucker) or Bouhanni (a cocky wheelsucker) or Kristoff (except for that Flanders win) or Degenkolb (except for that Roubaix win)..

Cherry-picking.
WheelofGear
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Re:

19 Mar 2017 14:09

WheelofGear wrote:He is not any different from Matthews (mostly a mega-wheelsucker) or Bouhanni (a cocky wheelsucker) or Kristoff (except for that Flanders win) or Degenkolb (except for that Roubaix win)..

Cherry-picking.

Matthews isn't popular as well, Bouhanni is a completely different kind of rider and you even already mentioned the two races in which Kristoff and Degenkolb proved that they aren't wheel suckers like Gerrans. When has Gerrans ever done anything like that?
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2017 14:14

Gigs_98 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:He is not any different from Matthews (mostly a mega-wheelsucker) or Bouhanni (a cocky wheelsucker) or Kristoff (except for that Flanders win) or Degenkolb (except for that Roubaix win)..

Cherry-picking.

Matthews isn't popular as well, Bouhanni is a completely different kind of rider and you even already mentioned the two races in which Kristoff and Degenkolb proved that they aren't wheel suckers like Gerrans. When has Gerrans ever done anything like that?


Matthews is exactly the same rider as Gerrans. I'm not seeing him getting as much hate. Bouhanni seems like a officious **** and he is not getting any hate.

Kristoff/Degenkolb are wheelsuckers 95% of the time.
WheelofGear
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2017 15:14

WheelofGear wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:He is not any different from Matthews (mostly a mega-wheelsucker) or Bouhanni (a cocky wheelsucker) or Kristoff (except for that Flanders win) or Degenkolb (except for that Roubaix win)..

Cherry-picking.

Matthews isn't popular as well, Bouhanni is a completely different kind of rider and you even already mentioned the two races in which Kristoff and Degenkolb proved that they aren't wheel suckers like Gerrans. When has Gerrans ever done anything like that?


Matthews is exactly the same rider as Gerrans. I'm not seeing him getting as much hate. Bouhanni seems like a officious **** and he is not getting any hate.

Kristoff/Degenkolb are wheelsuckers 95% of the time.

Matthews might be a lot like gerrans but he hasn't shown this wheel sucking behaviour that often which is why he isn't as hated as gerrans.
Bouhanni got a lot of hate for his aggressive sprinting last year but you just can't compare the "wheel sucking" before bunch sprints to what gerrans does. For the same reason kristoff and degenkolb aren't hatet because they usually win in bunch sprints and have even shown some aggressive racing in classics.
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2017 15:20

Gigs_98 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:He is not any different from Matthews (mostly a mega-wheelsucker) or Bouhanni (a cocky wheelsucker) or Kristoff (except for that Flanders win) or Degenkolb (except for that Roubaix win)..

Cherry-picking.

Matthews isn't popular as well, Bouhanni is a completely different kind of rider and you even already mentioned the two races in which Kristoff and Degenkolb proved that they aren't wheel suckers like Gerrans. When has Gerrans ever done anything like that?


Matthews is exactly the same rider as Gerrans. I'm not seeing him getting as much hate. Bouhanni seems like a officious **** and he is not getting any hate.

Kristoff/Degenkolb are wheelsuckers 95% of the time.

Matthews might be a lot like gerrans but he hasn't shown this wheel sucking behaviour that often which is why he isn't as hated as gerrans.
Bouhanni got a lot of hate for his aggressive sprinting last year but you just can't compare the "wheel sucking" before bunch sprints to what gerrans does. For the same reason kristoff and degenkolb aren't hatet because they usually win in bunch sprints and have even shown some aggressive racing in classics.

He isn't so hated because he never won a big race (despite his giro's stages)
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19 Mar 2017 15:26

When has Matthews won anything after being towed to the line by a moved he leached?
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19 Mar 2017 15:59

Matthews and Gerrans aren't the same guy. Matthews is mostly a 3rd tier bunch sprinter who climbs better than most sprinters. In his prime, Gerrans could often be with Valverde, Kwia, Gilbert, etc...in tough finishes. The groups Bling wins from are usually much bigger so he doesn't get the hate Gerrans does because he's just doing what sprinters do.
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Re:

19 Mar 2017 16:14

Netserk wrote:When has Matthews won anything after being towed to the line by a moved he leached?

Ever seen that Giro stage where Evans gained time on Quintana. He just sat there and did nothing like he always does.

And who said there Matthews couldn't be up there in tougher races? He weight just over 70kg.

He could easily win an easy version of Liege or Flèche Wallone if he cared about those races.
WheelofGear
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Re:

19 Mar 2017 16:16

jaylew wrote:Matthews and Gerrans aren't the same guy. Matthews is mostly a 3rd tier bunch sprinter who climbs better than most sprinters. In his prime, Gerrans could often be with Valverde, Kwia, Gilbert, etc...in tough finishes. The groups Bling wins from are usually much bigger so he doesn't get the hate Gerrans does because he's just doing what sprinters do.

That's doesn't make him any better than Gerrans.

Gerrans just win from a slightly more reduced group.
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2017 16:21

WheelofGear wrote:
Netserk wrote:When has Matthews won anything after being towed to the line by a moved he leached?

Ever seen that Giro stage where Evans gained time on Quintana. He just sat there and did nothing like he always does.

And who said there Matthews couldn't be up there in tougher races? He weight just over 70kg.

He could easily win an easy version of Liege or Flèche Wallone if he cared about those races.

That was a situation in which evans only cared about gc and matthews only cared about the stage. Of course matthews didn't help Evans. That would have been incredibly stupid.
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2017 16:43

Gigs_98 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:
Netserk wrote:When has Matthews won anything after being towed to the line by a moved he leached?

Ever seen that Giro stage where Evans gained time on Quintana. He just sat there and did nothing like he always does.

And who said there Matthews couldn't be up there in tougher races? He weight just over 70kg.

He could easily win an easy version of Liege or Flèche Wallone if he cared about those races.

That was a situation in which evans only cared about gc and matthews only cared about the stage. Of course matthews didn't help Evans. That would have been incredibly stupid.


How is that different from the way Gerrans races? Gerrans still takes more pulls than Matthews.
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19 Mar 2017 16:48

I don't think you can rationalize it. It's more of an innate human nature. Humans evolved to run around on 2 legs, to run or fight when frightened, etc. Apparently they also evolved to hate Simon Gerrans' racing style
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2017 17:18

WheelofGear wrote:
jaylew wrote:Matthews and Gerrans aren't the same guy. Matthews is mostly a 3rd tier bunch sprinter who climbs better than most sprinters. In his prime, Gerrans could often be with Valverde, Kwia, Gilbert, etc...in tough finishes. The groups Bling wins from are usually much bigger so he doesn't get the hate Gerrans does because he's just doing what sprinters do.

That's doesn't make him any better than Gerrans.

Gerrans just win from a slightly more reduced group.

I disagree and agree with you at the same time :p
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19 Mar 2017 17:40

Some people here need to re-watch the Ponferrada WC. The whole 'Gerrans didn't take a single pull' line is a myth.
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Re:

19 Mar 2017 18:05

The Hegelian wrote:
The other issue of irrationality is his much hated unwillingness to chase down late attacks (i.e. 2015 worlds, Aust Nats). What people don't get there is that it's always an each way bet whether to chase or not; people seem to think that only attacking racers risk willing to lose in order to win, but precisely the same bet is on with defensive tactics. I heard Gerrans say pretty much the same thing: to keep your head, stay cool and be prepared to lose in staying super patient - that requires just as much courage as going all out from earlier than you think works best for your capacities.


This is a key point.

He isn't a huge overachiever only because he has hit on a winning strategy and sticks to it, but also because he is entirely credible whenever an opponent tries to work out if he is bluffing. He can't be bullied, begged or manipulated into behaving sub-optimally and he absolutely is willing to let any move be caught. Everyone knows that he is prepared to lose in order to maximise his chance of winning.
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2017 18:25

WheelofGear wrote:
Netserk wrote:When has Matthews won anything after being towed to the line by a moved he leached?

Ever seen that Giro stage where Evans gained time on Quintana. He just sat there and did nothing like he always does.

And who said there Matthews couldn't be up there in tougher races? He weight just over 70kg.

He could easily win an easy version of Liege or Flèche Wallone if he cared about those races.


In what parallel universe?! :surprised: And what races he cares then, if he don't care about Monument and 80 years-old WT Classic?!
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2017 18:33

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:
The other issue of irrationality is his much hated unwillingness to chase down late attacks (i.e. 2015 worlds, Aust Nats). What people don't get there is that it's always an each way bet whether to chase or not; people seem to think that only attacking racers risk willing to lose in order to win, but precisely the same bet is on with defensive tactics. I heard Gerrans say pretty much the same thing: to keep your head, stay cool and be prepared to lose in staying super patient - that requires just as much courage as going all out from earlier than you think works best for your capacities.


This is a key point.

He isn't a huge overachiever only because he has hit on a winning strategy and sticks to it, but also because he is entirely credible whenever an opponent tries to work out if he is bluffing. He can't be bullied, begged or manipulated into behaving sub-optimally and he absolutely is willing to let any move be caught. Everyone knows that he is prepared to lose in order to maximise his chance of winning a group sprint

Fixed that bit for you.
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So why questions? If no answers?
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19 Mar 2017 19:08

Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.
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