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I don't get the Gerrans hate

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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

19 Mar 2017 19:23

Hold on a moment, Michael Matthews at age 25 was already a top-20 rider in the peloton.

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Simon Gerrans on the other hand... :rolleyes:

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User avatar KyoGrey
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

19 Mar 2017 19:25

Tarnum wrote:I think it is fair to day that on this site Gerrans is the most hated rider for non clinic related issues. I don't get it.

First up, the way he rides is the most likely to give him victories. I find it very hard to look down on someone for doing the logical thing.

A far more important reason is, that having someone who is a virtual lock to win a reduced peloton sprint, should be the best thing that ever happened to cycling. This is because it should cause other riders to take action and attack. "Thou shalt not go to the finishing straight with Gerrans" should be the first commandment for any other rider who wants to win the race. If the others are content to let themselves be led like lambs to the slaughterhouse, they do not deserve to win. "But", one might argue, "the other riders don't want to risk a high place finish which would earn them UCI point and price money." Again I point to the "do not deserve to win" part of my statement.

In conclusion: I do not root for Gerrans to win, I root for his presence to force the other riders to make an interesting race.

You obviously forgot that it's *much* easier to sit in the wheels than lose a rider sitting in the wheels. Hence, your logic makes no sense whatsoever.

It's very simple: people have always loved positive sportsman and women. In every sport. They like the risk takers, they like the ones not taking the easiest or even most logical route. Because they entertain, but also because they sometimes don't get what they deserve. Gerrans is the exact opposite. End of story.
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

19 Mar 2017 19:52

KyoGrey wrote:Hold on a moment, Michael Matthews at age 25 was already a top-20 rider in the peloton.

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Simon Gerrans on the other hand... :rolleyes:

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I did say for the classics.
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19 Mar 2017 20:03

He is no Contador or Sagan, but not everyone have to be an attacker.

Diversity of ability is a good thing. Want less reduced sprints? Reduce the numbers of riders on a team.
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

19 Mar 2017 20:49

hrotha wrote:
KyoGrey wrote:Hold on a moment, Michael Matthews at age 25 was already a top-20 rider in the peloton.

Image

Simon Gerrans on the other hand... :rolleyes:

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I did say for the classics.


My bad. I just wanted to emphasise their different trajectories.
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Re:

19 Mar 2017 20:57

hrotha wrote:Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel
-Matthews was a huge talent as an U23, Gerrans needed 2 goes at Europe before making it with AG2R
-Matthews can TT quite well, and can climb very well for a sprinter
-Matthews isn't a jerk (although 8-9 years ago Gerrans wasn't either)
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

19 Mar 2017 21:09

Gigs_98 wrote:Why the hell are there people arguing that the hate is irrational because he has a great talent and is a strong rider. Since when has that anything to do with whether you like someone or not. If that was an indicator Sky would be the most popular team and guys like Wllens not popular at all.


I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

19 Mar 2017 21:31

movingtarget wrote:I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.
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20 Mar 2017 01:23

Strange thread given Gerro is hardly showing up every other weekend and doing any of the above, not that there's anything wrong with it anyway
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Re:

20 Mar 2017 01:56

swuzzlebubble wrote:Strange thread given Gerro is hardly showing up every other weekend and doing any of the above, not that there's anything wrong with it anyway


This thread is attempting to impersonate Gerrans himself, by waiting until the very last minute to do something, when something could/should have been done much earlier :D
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 06:21

42x16ss wrote:
hrotha wrote:Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel
-Matthews was a huge talent as an U23, Gerrans needed 2 goes at Europe before making it with AG2R
-Matthews can TT quite well, and can climb very well for a sprinter
-Matthews isn't a jerk (although 8-9 years ago Gerrans wasn't either)

Yeah, I don't think it's fair to saddle Bling with the Gerrans tag at this point but you know how people are.

At least let him earn it!
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

20 Mar 2017 06:34

Jagartrott wrote:
movingtarget wrote:I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.
Alaphillipe tried it at MSR.
"I'm riding for Gavaria"
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

20 Mar 2017 07:06

swuzzlebubble wrote:Alaphillipe tried it at MSR.
"I'm riding for Gavaria"

The whole issue is that it has to be a consistent pattern. For Alaphilippe, this very clearly is not the case.
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

20 Mar 2017 07:50

swuzzlebubble wrote:
Jagartrott wrote:
movingtarget wrote:I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.
Alaphillipe tried it at MSR.
"I'm riding for Gavaria"


Judging by the way he was yelling into the radio after he did a turn, he wanted to work but wasn't allowed
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2017 09:00

jaylew wrote:
42x16ss wrote:
hrotha wrote:Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel
-Matthews was a huge talent as an U23, Gerrans needed 2 goes at Europe before making it with AG2R
-Matthews can TT quite well, and can climb very well for a sprinter
-Matthews isn't a jerk (although 8-9 years ago Gerrans wasn't either)

Yeah, I don't think it's fair to saddle Bling with the Gerrans tag at this point but you know how people are.

At least let him earn it!

Unlike his mentor, Matthews dictated a whole PhD dissertation on the topic of Gerransing, so bonus points there.
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

20 Mar 2017 12:02

Jagartrott wrote:
movingtarget wrote:I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.


Valverde is the obvious one even though he attacks off the front in less important races. But if other riders notice Gerrans in a group that isn't that big and are okay to drag him to the finish then they get what they deserve. There are always riders that sandbag even in small groups. When he won Liege it wasn't as if he was the only one not working and the killer blow was grabbing Valverde's wheel in the sprint. That's just smart riding.
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

20 Mar 2017 17:35

Jagartrott wrote:
movingtarget wrote:I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.


Seriously - Gerrans attacked with Nibali on the Poggio in his MSR win in 2012, and then Cancellara bridged up to the pair - So Gerrans was one of three riders out of 200 to attack, but yet still a wheel-sucker - It looks bad for the other 197 riders - LBL in 2014 - Gerrans was dropped on the last climb, and it was only inspiring riding from Weening, who got Gerrans back to the reduced peleton - You can hardly wheel suck if you can't get up the climb.

Facts hurt.
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

20 Mar 2017 17:46

movingtarget wrote:When he won Liege it wasn't as if he was the only one not working and the killer blow was grabbing Valverde's wheel in the sprint. That's just smart riding.


It wasn't smart riding. Smart riding would be collaborating with Valverde to pull back Martin and then make the right call in positioning for the sprint for the win.

What he did was refuse to pull and thus guarantee he was racing for 2nd. He was unbelievably lucky when the almost impossible combination happened: Valverde buried himself to bring back Martin/Caruso, having nothing left for the sprint while Martin crashed all by himself. The killer blow was literally dumb luck.

It was as smart as the person who spends their last dollar on a lottery ticket and wins grand prize: making a dumb decision and getting very very very lucky.
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

20 Mar 2017 18:10

yaco wrote:
Jagartrott wrote:
movingtarget wrote:I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.


Seriously - Gerrans attacked with Nibali on the Poggio in his MSR win in 2012, and then Cancellara bridged up to the pair - So Gerrans was one of three riders out of 200 to attack, but yet still a wheel-sucker - It looks bad for the other 197 riders - LBL in 2014 - Gerrans was dropped on the last climb, and it was only inspiring riding from Weening, who got Gerrans back to the reduced peleton - You can hardly wheel suck if you can't get up the climb.

Facts hurt.


I really wouldn't give Gerran's any more credit in that instance other than being attentive and having the ability to jump on Nibali's wheel. I don't recall him spending anytime in the wind other than when he chased to get with Vincenzo. Nibali was on the front until Fabian joined them. Gerrans only time in the wind was chasing Nibali,
the very brief moment when an effort was made to make Gerrans pull through which lasted a second or two and his jump to finish and victory. That is my recollection and it could be inaccurate. :Neutral:
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Re: I don't get the Gerrans hate

20 Mar 2017 18:39

Angliru wrote:
yaco wrote:
Jagartrott wrote:
movingtarget wrote:I don't think that is what they are arguing. They are saying that other riders do the same as Gerrans without the same level of hostile criticism.

Please name a few. Can't think of many myself. In fact, I can't think of any winner of big races that did so like Gerrans in recent years.


Seriously - Gerrans attacked with Nibali on the Poggio in his MSR win in 2012, and then Cancellara bridged up to the pair - So Gerrans was one of three riders out of 200 to attack, but yet still a wheel-sucker - It looks bad for the other 197 riders - LBL in 2014 - Gerrans was dropped on the last climb, and it was only inspiring riding from Weening, who got Gerrans back to the reduced peleton - You can hardly wheel suck if you can't get up the climb.

Facts hurt.


I really wouldn't give Gerran's any more credit in that instance other than being attentive and having the ability to jump on Nibali's wheel. I don't recall him spending anytime in the wind other than when he chased to get with Vincenzo. Nibali was on the front until Fabian joined them. Gerrans only time in the wind was chasing Nibali,
the very brief moment when an effort was made to make Gerrans pull through which lasted a second or two and his jump to finish and victory. That is my recollection and it could be inaccurate. :Neutral:


I repeat facts hurt a narrative - Gerrans won by attacking on the Poggio or being able to follow Nibali's attack - It was lucky that Cancellara bridged over and put his diesel engine to work - It was won in the same way as Kwiatkovski - Three man breakaway on the Poggio with Sagan playing the Cancellara role.
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