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I don't get the Gerrans hate

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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2017 08:00

RedheadDane wrote:This!
Sure, his riding style might be a bit underwhelming, but that's no reason to hate someone. The world is full of terrible people, hating someone because you don't like their riding style just seems pointless to me.
Okay, so the races he win tends to have been a bit boring - now the question is of course, were they boring because he won them, or did he win them because they were boring? - but he doesn't actually hurt anybody. Let me take a look at those three examples people love bringing up around here (and let me be honest, I seem to have forgotten a lot of what happened, maybe I just don't see any point in remembering year-old dull races...)

MSR: Nobody got hurt from Gerrans' actions. He didn't push Cancellara and Nibali off their bikes on his way to victory. If he'd done that then I'd understand if people were still pissy about all these years after.

LBL: Again, he didn't cause Dan Martin to crash.

Worlds: Guess the only person he "hurt" here - in the sense of missing the win, which isn't really hurt at all - was himself. So... karma? He didn't pull, even though it would've been the smartest and, surprise surprise, he didn't win.

It's not difficult to understand at all.
Our biology is primed to recognizing people that rig the system - dozens of such experiments exist. Gerrans is perceived by many (except for a number of <Aussie> fans here) to be 'cheating' the system - hence he is generally disliked.
User avatar Jagartrott
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21 Mar 2017 08:05

Well, for me the "system" is all about winning. And as long as you don't blatantly break any rules, by - ya know - pushing people off their bikes, you're not doing anything wrong. At the end of the day, for most riders it doesn't matter if you win in a "cool" way, as long as you win.
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User avatar RedheadDane
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21 Mar 2017 08:27

I can't believe this needs to be explained, but... no, no one hates Gerrans literally.

And yes, it is legal for him to choose whatever tactics he prefers. This has been pointed out plenty of times. If you don't want to "disrespect" any riders no matter what, that's cool, but you don't need to disrespect other forumers by ignoring the many arguments they're putting forth.
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21 Mar 2017 09:04

I'm not ignoring them, I just don't understand them. Why spend so much energy disliking someone? Why act as if it's somehow a personal offence against you if you find a race boring? There are much more important things in life.
And those "many" arguments seem to be the same three race-examples, the most recent of which is two-and-a-half years old. Then there's the extremely silly argument about his squeaky voice. Honestly, I have yet so "see" - well, hear - that.
Not disrespecting a rider "No matter what" is for when he (or she) blatantly cheats, both in clinicey and non-clinicey ways, constantly pushes other riders without being punished - in which case a lot of the disrespect should be given to the race jurys - and badmouths people in interviews. It's for when a rider has done something who should not only logically cause them to be disrespected, but to be thrown out of the sport altogether.

I realise this is probably somewhat biased, as those videos are likely showing the riders and staff from their best side, but the impression I get from the BSPes is that he's a pretty cool (old) guy who's and important, and respected, part of the team. Earlier as someone who'd win races himself, now as someone who'd help the younger riders win races.
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re:

21 Mar 2017 11:24

hrotha wrote:I can't believe this needs to be explained, but... no, no one hates Gerrans literally.

And yes, it is legal for him to choose whatever tactics he prefers. This has been pointed out plenty of times. If you don't want to "disrespect" any riders no matter what, that's cool, but you don't need to disrespect other forumers by ignoring the many arguments they're putting forth.

Exactly. I can respect Gerrans' style, but I will always despise it. I don't think RHD is disrespectful though. She just genuinely has a different mindset than most cycling fans, I guess.
"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." - Fabian Cancellara after Paris-Roubaix 2011.
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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2017 13:56

42x16ss wrote:
hrotha wrote:Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel


It wasn't impressive at all, he just did what Gerrans always do in a race. Gerrans has followed Gilbert's wheel on Cauberg as well. No difference, just a different wheelsucker. He thought the Gilbert move was the winning move.
WheelofGear
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21 Mar 2017 14:40

Whenever I read somebody in this forum using the term wheelsucker to deride a rider, I take a mental note that the poster is likely to spout garbage.
barmaher
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21 Mar 2017 16:19

too many people are assured everyone must ride like sagan, in-peak contador, vino, nibali, pirrazzi, i don't know who else. if one doesnot, he instantly becomes an idiot, wheelsucker, non-attacker, an object of massive dispassion, iow a guy who would better not take big wins. given that even valverde and purito have been often criticised, it's quite emphatic. Childish? Sure. Irrational? Completely. But heck, it's the internet, the field of anonymous dirt. there's nothing to be surprised about. :)
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21 Mar 2017 16:26

Matthews and the Cauberg at the 2015 Amstel Gold - Gilbert attacked, Matthews followed and then Valverde bridged over - For some strange reason Valverde wouldn't work with the other two and the break was brought back - Valverde works with Gilbert and Matthews and they fight out the finish.
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Re:

21 Mar 2017 16:32

hrotha wrote:I can't believe this needs to be explained, but... no, no one hates Gerrans literally.

And yes, it is legal for him to choose whatever tactics he prefers. This has been pointed out plenty of times. If you don't want to "disrespect" any riders no matter what, that's cool, but you don't need to disrespect other forumers by ignoring the many arguments they're putting forth.


Seriously - The two examples of Gerran's so called 'negative riding' are the 2012 MSR and the 2014 LBL - It's been clearly pointed out that Gerrans won by attacking on the Poggio ( which is not negative riding ) and which has been done about 3 times in the last 10 years - Gerrans was dropped on the final climb of the 2014 LBL, and through effective team-work and luck managed to sprint to vistory - You hardly ride a negative race if you fail to keep pace with the peleton - There are a number of examples of Gerrans negative riding which cold be discussed, but somehow the miss the the obvious - Facts hurt a narrative.
yaco
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Re:

21 Mar 2017 16:37

dacooley wrote:too many people are assured everyone must ride like sagan, in-peak contador, vino, nibali, pirrazzi, i don't know who else. if one doesnot, he instantly becomes an idiot, wheelsucker, non-attacker, an object of massive dispassion, iow a guy who would better not take big wins. given that even valverde and purito have been often criticised, it's quite emphatic. Childish? Sure. Irrational? Completely. But heck, it's the internet, the field of anonymous dirt. there's nothing to be surprised about. :)

A past his prime contador isn't a entertainer? :confused: :confused: why valverde and purito shouldn't be criticized? :confused:
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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2017 16:44

WheelofGear wrote:
42x16ss wrote:
hrotha wrote:Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel


It wasn't impressive at all, he just did what Gerrans always do in a race. Gerrans has followed Gilbert's wheel on Cauberg as well. No difference, just a different wheelsucker. He thought the Gilbert move was the winning move.


If you can't see the difference between Matthews and Gerrans then you aren't paying attention
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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2017 16:58

StryderHells wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:
42x16ss wrote:
hrotha wrote:Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel


It wasn't impressive at all, he just did what Gerrans always do in a race. Gerrans has followed Gilbert's wheel on Cauberg as well. No difference, just a different wheelsucker. He thought the Gilbert move was the winning move.


If you can't see the difference between Matthews and Gerrans then you aren't paying attention


The difference between Gerrans and Matthews, is that Gerrans is slightly more aggressive and take more pulls.

Speaking of wheelsuckers, what about Majka? The is the climber version of Gerrans and Matthews.
WheelofGear
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21 Mar 2017 17:00

Majka is fine when he is in a break but horrible when he is competing with the other GC riders.
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Re:

21 Mar 2017 18:24

Velolover2 wrote:Majka is fine when he is in a break but horrible when he is competing with the other GC riders.


Which is more or less reasonable behaviour from someone who is usually among the couple of strongest in any break but among the weakest in a GC group.
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Re:

21 Mar 2017 18:47

dacooley wrote:too many people are assured everyone must ride like sagan, in-peak contador, vino, nibali, pirrazzi, i don't know who else. if one doesnot, he instantly becomes an idiot, wheelsucker, non-attacker, an object of massive dispassion, iow a guy who would better not take big wins. given that even valverde and purito have been often criticised, it's quite emphatic. Childish? Sure. Irrational? Completely. But heck, it's the internet, the field of anonymous dirt. there's nothing to be surprised about. :)

It's the internet, that place where in arguments you can make up assumptions like "too many people are assured everyone must ride like sagan (...)" and create false dichotomy because it serves your purpose. Then of course, you give yourself the moral or intellectual high-ground. Masterclass.
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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2017 19:51

WheelofGear wrote:
42x16ss wrote:
hrotha wrote:Matthews is widely held (and mocked) as Gerrans's successor, so I don't know where you're coming from. If fewer people hate him, that's because frankly he's not that important as a classics rider. Gerrans in his prime (at like 34 lol) was a much bigger threat.

Fewer people dislike Matthews because:

-He is capable of riding for himself on occasion, even though waiting for the sprint is the safer option - see Amstel


It wasn't impressive at all, he just did what Gerrans always do in a race. Gerrans has followed Gilbert's wheel on Cauberg as well. No difference, just a different wheelsucker. He thought the Gilbert move was the winning move.

And how many times has a Gilbert move on the Cauberg been a winning move?
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Re:

21 Mar 2017 22:32

barmaher wrote:Whenever I read somebody in this forum using the term wheelsucker to deride a rider, I take a mental note that the poster is likely to spout garbage.

So much, this.
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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2017 22:55

Jagartrott wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:This!
Sure, his riding style might be a bit underwhelming, but that's no reason to hate someone. The world is full of terrible people, hating someone because you don't like their riding style just seems pointless to me.
Okay, so the races he win tends to have been a bit boring - now the question is of course, were they boring because he won them, or did he win them because they were boring? - but he doesn't actually hurt anybody. Let me take a look at those three examples people love bringing up around here (and let me be honest, I seem to have forgotten a lot of what happened, maybe I just don't see any point in remembering year-old dull races...)

MSR: Nobody got hurt from Gerrans' actions. He didn't push Cancellara and Nibali off their bikes on his way to victory. If he'd done that then I'd understand if people were still pissy about all these years after.

LBL: Again, he didn't cause Dan Martin to crash.

Worlds: Guess the only person he "hurt" here - in the sense of missing the win, which isn't really hurt at all - was himself. So... karma? He didn't pull, even though it would've been the smartest and, surprise surprise, he didn't win.

It's not difficult to understand at all.
Our biology is primed to recognizing people that rig the system - dozens of such experiments exist. Gerrans is perceived by many (except for a number of <Aussie> fans here) to be 'cheating' the system - hence he is generally disliked.


Cheating the system? You mean the system where everyone in the peloton is a moral communist, totally committed to doing equal turns in all cases, to the extent where one would rather sacrifice a win than violate the moral order of doing equal turns?

That ain't road cycling my friend, never was, never will be. It's always been dog-eat-dog-chess-poker. And that's what's cool about it.

Even to the extent of Vino's payment to win his LBL ~ which, incidentally, is criticised less than Gerrans taking a legitimate sprint!

Road cycling is like the wild west of doing whatever it takes to win. That is the moral order - and that's why there have been such systemic clinic type situations.

Whoever seeks some other puritan moral order best be turning to church on Sundays and turning off the classics....
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22 Mar 2017 04:22

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