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Giro 2017, stage 13: Reggio Emilia - Tortona 229 km

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19 May 2017 15:42

Good sprint but it was Stuyven and Bennet he flew past, not Kittel and Cavendish.
deValtos
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19 May 2017 15:44

Please stop the beating!!!!!!

I can't take it anymore!!!

:D
User avatar Escarabajo
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19 May 2017 15:44

Kittel is the sprinter and Martin the GC rider for Quick Step in the TDF - QS want to win a stage or 2 with Kittel and gain a high position in GC with Martin - It's help with sponsorship if you feature in a GT for the full three weeks.
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19 May 2017 15:45

Quickstep have too many good riders they'll need to make space for some doms!

I assumed Gilbert would do the TDF aswell now since his injury?
deValtos
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19 May 2017 15:46

Isn't stage 14 more like a MTT?

I can't see Dumoulin losing that much.
Velolover2
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19 May 2017 15:59

Tremendous consistency from Gibbons. Dimension Data have found a good one there.
User avatar Geraint Too Fast
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 16:06

Alexandre B. wrote:As I said, Gaviria is a very good sprinter. But calling him "best sprinter in the world" is nonsense (in my opinion) because he still has to prove it on the biggest stage, when you expect top sprinters to battle it out.
I agree with that part. And I don't think he will get the better of Kittel (or a healthy Cavendish) on a straight run in.

But by the same token Kittel hasn't proven to be the best the Tour in the last couple of years. I mean, I think he's clearly tops at the moment with Cavendish out, but I base that on his other performances, no on his Tours. So on that basis it's not nonsense to call Gaviria the best sprinter in the world at the moment. I don't agree, but it's not nonsense.
"Christmas is tomorrow... Let's get in the break." - Matt Hayman, 4/9/16
"What a strange illusion it is to suppose that beauty is goodness." - Tolstoy
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 16:12

carton wrote:
Alexandre B. wrote:As I said, Gaviria is a very good sprinter. But calling him "best sprinter in the world" is nonsense (in my opinion) because he still has to prove it on the biggest stage, when you expect top sprinters to battle it out.
I agree with that part. And I don't think he can beat Kittel (or a healthy Cavendish) on a straight run in.

But by the same token Kittel hasn't proven to be the best the Tour in the last couple of years. I mean, I think he's clearly tops at the moment with Cavendish out, but I base that on his other performances, no on his Tours. So on that basis it's not nonsense to call Gaviria the best sprinter in the world at the moment. I don't agree, but it's not nonsense.

It kind of is nonsense. It would be like calling Degenkolb the best sprinter in the world on the back of the 2014 Vuelta. When in fact, like Gaviria, he's clearly not even the best sprinter in his own team.
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19 May 2017 16:13

Gaviria superhuman.
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Re:

19 May 2017 16:23

I really didn't expect Bora to have the horsepower to have the dominant sprint train. There are some serious engines among the young rider's they've brought. Pity for them that Gaviria has the form to spoil their work. I wonder is this going to be a central part of their tactics for the rest of the season. Will Sagan and Bennett regularly get the full HTC treatment?
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 16:26

DFA123 wrote:It kind of is nonsense. It would be like calling Degenkolb the best sprinter in the world on the back of the 2014 Vuelta. When in fact, like Gaviria, he's clearly not even the best sprinter in his own team.
I'm not saying he is. But an argument can be made. Assume a sprint stage in a week, all of the hitters are there (bar Cav, who is on the sidelines ATM), outside of Kittel, who are you taking? Now, get Kittel back in there, say it's a lumpy finish, or twisty finish, who are you taking? It's not ludicrous to go with Gaviria in either case.

Also, this sprint field is a little better than 2014 Vuelta. And Bouhanni was right up there with Dege there.

Again, I won't say it, and I don't believe it, and it seems like a lot of unnecessary hype, but it's not insane to suggest it.
"Christmas is tomorrow... Let's get in the break." - Matt Hayman, 4/9/16
"What a strange illusion it is to suppose that beauty is goodness." - Tolstoy
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 16:27

Zinoviev Letter wrote:I really didn't expect Bora to have the horsepower to have the dominant sprint train. There are some serious engines among the young rider's they've brought. Pity for them that Gaviria has the form to spoil their work. I wonder is this going to be a central part of their tactics for the rest of the season. Will Sagan and Bennett regularly get the full HTC treatment?

It would be fun to see Sagan with a decent sprint train again, like he had occasionally in the Cannondale days. I think he's a faster bunch sprinter than he was then as well, so with a good lead out (Bennett as last man could be incredible), he would have a chance of challenging even Kittel at times imo.
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19 May 2017 16:31

Bora certainly has the riders but they surely messed that up in the finishing straight. No need for Selig to get into a barging match with Richeze when there was half the road to ride in. That just slowed everyone up behind except for Gaviria who took full advantage of the opportunity he should never have been presented with
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 16:40

carton wrote:
DFA123 wrote:It kind of is nonsense. It would be like calling Degenkolb the best sprinter in the world on the back of the 2014 Vuelta. When in fact, like Gaviria, he's clearly not even the best sprinter in his own team.
I'm not saying he is. But an argument can be made. Assume a sprint stage in a week, all of the hitters are there (bar Cav, who is on the sidelines ATM), outside of Kittel, who are you taking? Now, get Kittel back in there, say it's a lumpy finish, or twisty finish, who are you taking? It's not ludicrous to go with Gaviria in either case.

Also, this sprint field is a little better than 2014 Vuelta. And Bouhanni was right up there with Dege there.

Again, I won't say it, and I don't believe it, and it seems like a lot of unnecessary hype, but it's not insane to suggest it.

I think the 2014 Vuelta is a very good comparison. There you had the best second tier sprinters like Degenkolb, Bouhanni, Sagan, Matthews and a few outsiders like Boonen and Ciolek.

Similarly at this Giro, you've got second tier sprinters like Bennett and Ewan, plus a load of pretty poor outsiders like Mareczko and Modolo. Griepel is the exception I guess, but his lead out really sucks without Sieberg and Henderson, to the extent that he's been out of contention before the sprint starts more often than not.

Gaviria really needs to be beating the best sprinters with their a-trains, before he can be considered in the same company imo. He's been hugely impressive to win so many stages, but I think it's way too early to apply a wider context to his performances.
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19 May 2017 16:44

So who leaves the Giro tomorrow with Greipel?

Ewan and Bennett?
del1962
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Re:

19 May 2017 16:52

del1962 wrote:So who leaves the Giro tomorrow with Greipel?

Ewan and Bennett?


According to Orica's post stage report, Ewan is quoted as saying he'll treat it day by day from now on. Currently feeling strong but if he feels that he's really going "too deep" then it's time to pull the plug
dirkprovin
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19 May 2017 17:00

For fellow data geeks: That was a 380m, 21 sec, probably over 1,200W NP (1,098 Avg) sprint, from Velon's data.

DFA123 wrote: He's been hugely impressive to win so many stages, but I think it's way too early to apply a wider context to his performances.
I think we're basically in agreement there.
"Christmas is tomorrow... Let's get in the break." - Matt Hayman, 4/9/16
"What a strange illusion it is to suppose that beauty is goodness." - Tolstoy
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Re:

19 May 2017 17:04

Geraint Too Fast wrote:Tremendous consistency from Gibbons. Dimension Data have found a good one there.

Yes, he has been in the top 8 on 6 stages--and he is the only rider to have been in the top 8 in all of them. He clearly knows how to maneuver in a GT sprint. The top end speed is still lacking to compete for a win, but this is nevertheless an excellent GT debut.
shalgo
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19 May 2017 17:18

After 4 stage wins!

We are still waiting to see how he develops into a better sprinter.
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19 May 2017 17:38

Maybe Im overreacting, but right now, I genuinely think the case can be made he is the 2nd best sprinter in the world on a tradiotional sprint stage and maybe the best if there are obstacles in the finale (that they don't finish on, in that case Sagan is the best). Greipel got the shape, it seems, but for whatever reason he and/or his teammates mess it up. I think its partly due to age, young riders generally tend to be a lot more reckless in tense finales and so he is pretty careful at this point - like Ewan, super hit and miss.
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