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Who had the best season in the last 20 years?

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Who had the best season in the last 20 years?

Gilbert 2011
36
43%
Cipollini 2002
1
1%
Cavendish 2009
3
4%
Pantani 1998
25
30%
Cancellara 2008
2
2%
Boonen 2005
6
7%
Petacchi 2003 or 2004
1
1%
Contador 2008
7
8%
Zabel 2001
3
4%
 
Total votes : 84

Re: Re:

10 Aug 2017 12:25

Blanco wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:
Durden93 wrote:I find it hard to understand how the Ardennes triple could be rated more highly than Roubaix-Flanders+ WC

Roubaix> Liege
Worlds> Amstel
Flanders> Fleche

I get that doing those 3 in a row is impressive, but there's just one week between Roubaix and Flanders. I know that Gilbert had other wins, but so did Boonen (E3). I think if Boonen's season was more recent it'd be much more highly regarded.


I think this is not even a contest. I would rate Roubaix, Flanders and Liege even, but are far more prestigious than Fleche at the moment and to even try compare WC and Amstel is lunatic. On top of that Boonen won 2 tour stages. Every rider will choose Boonen's 2005 above Gilbert 2011 immediately.


And you know that how? Name one!

Common Sense.
Ikbengodniet
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10 Aug 2017 12:30

Contador winning 2 GTs wasn't matched by Nibali. And quite frankly Nibali would've blown Froome out of the water had he won the Vuelta too in 2013. He also won Tirreno, beating Froome, and Contador won Pais Vasco in 2008.
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2017 12:43

Ikbengodniet wrote:
Durden93 wrote:I find it hard to understand how the Ardennes triple could be rated more highly than Roubaix-Flanders+ WC

Roubaix> Liege
Worlds> Amstel
Flanders> Fleche

I get that doing those 3 in a row is impressive, but there's just one week between Roubaix and Flanders. I know that Gilbert had other wins, but so did Boonen (E3). I think if Boonen's season was more recent it'd be much more highly regarded.


I think this is not even a contest. I would rate Roubaix, Flanders and Liege even, but are far more prestigious than Fleche at the moment and to even try compare WC and Amstel is lunatic. On top of that Boonen won 2 tour stages. Every rider will choose Boonen's 2005 above Gilbert 2011 immediately.
as a non sprinter Gilbert won 19 races that year. You are forgetting he won stages in the tirreno, tdf, eneco tour, tour of belgium, that he won Strade Bianche, San Sebastian, Brabantse Pijl, Belgian RR & TT and GP Quebec as well. I have not seen dominance like Gilbert 2011 in this century. Gilbert won them all by being the strongest. Gilbert was a force to be reckoned with in every race he entered. Boonen not so much, despite that triple being impressive.
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2017 12:59

Bardamu wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:
Durden93 wrote:I find it hard to understand how the Ardennes triple could be rated more highly than Roubaix-Flanders+ WC

Roubaix> Liege
Worlds> Amstel
Flanders> Fleche

I get that doing those 3 in a row is impressive, but there's just one week between Roubaix and Flanders. I know that Gilbert had other wins, but so did Boonen (E3). I think if Boonen's season was more recent it'd be much more highly regarded.


I think this is not even a contest. I would rate Roubaix, Flanders and Liege even, but are far more prestigious than Fleche at the moment and to even try compare WC and Amstel is lunatic. On top of that Boonen won 2 tour stages. Every rider will choose Boonen's 2005 above Gilbert 2011 immediately.
as a non sprinter Gilbert won 19 races that year. You are forgetting he won stages in the tirreno, tdf, eneco tour, tour of belgium, that he won Strade Bianche, San Sebastian, Brabantse Pijl, Belgian RR & TT and GP Quebec as well. I have not seen dominance like Gilbert 2011 in this century. Gilbert won them all by being the strongest. Gilbert was a force to be reckoned with in every race he entered. Boonen not so much, despite that triple being impressive.


In my opinion it shouldn't make a difference if the rider is a sprinter or not. I know Gilbert won al those 2nd tier classics and some stages but so did Boonen in 2005. Still his results in the biggest races of the season are better.

Reminds me of Mollema this tour who immediately chose his tour stage above his CSS win last year.
Strade Bianche that year was a 1.1 race and can't be compared to the prestige it now has.
Ikbengodniet
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2017 13:00

Bardamu wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:
Durden93 wrote:I find it hard to understand how the Ardennes triple could be rated more highly than Roubaix-Flanders+ WC

Roubaix> Liege
Worlds> Amstel
Flanders> Fleche

I get that doing those 3 in a row is impressive, but there's just one week between Roubaix and Flanders. I know that Gilbert had other wins, but so did Boonen (E3). I think if Boonen's season was more recent it'd be much more highly regarded.


I think this is not even a contest. I would rate Roubaix, Flanders and Liege even, but are far more prestigious than Fleche at the moment and to even try compare WC and Amstel is lunatic. On top of that Boonen won 2 tour stages. Every rider will choose Boonen's 2005 above Gilbert 2011 immediately.
as a non sprinter Gilbert won 19 races that year. You are forgetting he won stages in the tirreno, tdf, eneco tour, tour of belgium, that he won Strade Bianche, San Sebastian, Brabantse Pijl, Belgian RR & TT and GP Quebec as well. I have not seen dominance like Gilbert 2011 in this century. Gilbert won them all by being the strongest. Gilbert was a force to be reckoned with in every race he entered. Boonen not so much, despite that triple being impressive.

Gilbert was quite weak in Lombardia. The race where he could have made his season the best.
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2017 13:40

Ikbengodniet wrote:
Bardamu wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:
Durden93 wrote:I find it hard to understand how the Ardennes triple could be rated more highly than Roubaix-Flanders+ WC

Roubaix> Liege
Worlds> Amstel
Flanders> Fleche

I get that doing those 3 in a row is impressive, but there's just one week between Roubaix and Flanders. I know that Gilbert had other wins, but so did Boonen (E3). I think if Boonen's season was more recent it'd be much more highly regarded.


I think this is not even a contest. I would rate Roubaix, Flanders and Liege even, but are far more prestigious than Fleche at the moment and to even try compare WC and Amstel is lunatic. On top of that Boonen won 2 tour stages. Every rider will choose Boonen's 2005 above Gilbert 2011 immediately.
as a non sprinter Gilbert won 19 races that year. You are forgetting he won stages in the tirreno, tdf, eneco tour, tour of belgium, that he won Strade Bianche, San Sebastian, Brabantse Pijl, Belgian RR & TT and GP Quebec as well. I have not seen dominance like Gilbert 2011 in this century. Gilbert won them all by being the strongest. Gilbert was a force to be reckoned with in every race he entered. Boonen not so much, despite that triple being impressive.


In my opinion it shouldn't make a difference if the rider is a sprinter or not. I know Gilbert won al those 2nd tier classics and some stages but so did Boonen in 2005. Still his results in the biggest races of the season are better.

Reminds me of Mollema this tour who immediately chose his tour stage above his CSS win last year.
Strade Bianche that year was a 1.1 race and can't be compared to the prestige it now has.


Common sense as well? :confused: I don't think so.

If a sprinter wins 10-15 races, that's not something extraordinary. But if a classic specialist, puncheur, wins it, that's huge. Take this year's Tour as an example. Kittel won 5 stages, and had an opportunity in at least 3-4 more. And how many opportunities had classic specialists, or climbers? 2-3 at most. That's a huge disadvantage already. It's the same in other stage races. Sprinters always have advantage when it comes to number of stages suited for them. It's not coincidence then that sprinters have highest number of wins in current peloton, Cavendish and Greipel have 140-150 wins on their palmares. Gilbert has around 70, Van Avermaet only 30, Kwiatkowski even less. Freaking Cancellara had around 90, including many TT's. Only freaks of nature like Sagan or Valverde can come close to sprinters, cause they win everywhere. Even Boonen himself said about Valverde how unbelievable thing is that he can win 15 races a year, while not being a sprinter!
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2017 13:56

Blanco wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:
Bardamu wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:
Durden93 wrote:I find it hard to understand how the Ardennes triple could be rated more highly than Roubaix-Flanders+ WC

Roubaix> Liege
Worlds> Amstel
Flanders> Fleche

I get that doing those 3 in a row is impressive, but there's just one week between Roubaix and Flanders. I know that Gilbert had other wins, but so did Boonen (E3). I think if Boonen's season was more recent it'd be much more highly regarded.


I think this is not even a contest. I would rate Roubaix, Flanders and Liege even, but are far more prestigious than Fleche at the moment and to even try compare WC and Amstel is lunatic. On top of that Boonen won 2 tour stages. Every rider will choose Boonen's 2005 above Gilbert 2011 immediately.
as a non sprinter Gilbert won 19 races that year. You are forgetting he won stages in the tirreno, tdf, eneco tour, tour of belgium, that he won Strade Bianche, San Sebastian, Brabantse Pijl, Belgian RR & TT and GP Quebec as well. I have not seen dominance like Gilbert 2011 in this century. Gilbert won them all by being the strongest. Gilbert was a force to be reckoned with in every race he entered. Boonen not so much, despite that triple being impressive.


In my opinion it shouldn't make a difference if the rider is a sprinter or not. I know Gilbert won al those 2nd tier classics and some stages but so did Boonen in 2005. Still his results in the biggest races of the season are better.

Reminds me of Mollema this tour who immediately chose his tour stage above his CSS win last year.
Strade Bianche that year was a 1.1 race and can't be compared to the prestige it now has.


Common sense as well? :confused: I don't think so.

If a sprinter wins 10-15 races, that's not something extraordinary. But if a classic specialist, puncheur, wins it, that's huge. Take this year's Tour as an example. Kittel won 5 stages, and had an opportunity in at least 3-4 more. And how many opportunities had classic specialists, or climbers? 2-3 at most. That's a huge disadvantage already. It's the same in other stage races. Sprinters always have advantage when it comes to number of stages suited for them. It's not coincidence then that sprinters have highest number of wins in current peloton, Cavendish and Greipel have 140-150 wins on their palmares. Gilbert has around 70, Van Avermaet only 30, Kwiatkowski even less. Freaking Cancellara had around 90, including many TT's. Only freaks of nature like Sagan or Valverde can come close to sprinters, cause they win everywhere. Even Boonen himself said about Valverde how unbelievable thing is that he can win 15 races a year, while not being a sprinter!


Yeah sure, but in the end the palmares stays the same. I think a puncheur like Gilbert 2011 has more opportunities in the biggest one day classics than a sprinter. I mean a season of a puncheur/classics specialist with the same victories as a sprinter isn't better just because he is a different type of rider.
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Re:

10 Aug 2017 15:25

Durden93 wrote:I find it hard to understand how the Ardennes triple could be rated more highly than Roubaix-Flanders+ WC

Roubaix> Liege
Worlds> Amstel
Flanders> Fleche

I get that doing those 3 in a row is impressive, but there's just one week between Roubaix and Flanders. I know that Gilbert had other wins, but so did Boonen (E3). I think if Boonen's season was more recent it'd be much more highly regarded.


It's only top of the ice berg. You should list all wins and significant results if you want to compare seasons. Boonen's 3 biggest wins certainly worth more than Gilbert's, but it's not complete story, far from it.

Gilbert - 18 wins:
Liege
Amstel
Fleche
TDF stage
San Sebastian
Quebec
Tirreno stage
Eneco stage
Strade Bianche
Brabantse Pijl
GP de Wallonie
Nationals RR
Nationals ITT
Ronde van Belgie GC + stage
Ster ZLM Tour + stage
Algarve stage
3rd Milan-San Remo
8th Lombardia
9th Ronde
2nd Eneco Tour GC
9th Tirreno GC
3rd Montreal


Boonen - 14 wins:
Worlds RR
Ronde
Roubaix
2 TDF stages
2 Paris-Nice stages
E3 Harelbeke
Ronde van Belgie GC + 2 stages
2 Tour of Qatar stages
Tour of Picardie stage
8th Milan-San Remo
2nd Het Volk

I would take Gilbert's season any day!
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15 Aug 2017 18:11

One thing that's being overlooked in Wiggins' 2012 season is that he won every single ITT>10 kms he rode the whole season. Every single one. There were plenty of guys who focused solely on ITT and Wiggins, who trained with intention of being good enough in the mountains to win TdF, beat all of those guys on every single occasion. And that was only in process of winning things much bigger than those ITTs. That's more impressive than one might have initially thought.
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Re:

15 Aug 2017 18:31

Anderis wrote:One thing that's being overlooked in Wiggins' 2012 season is that he won every single ITT>10 kms he rode the whole season. Every single one. There were plenty of guys who focused solely on ITT and Wiggins, who trained with intention of being good enough in the mountains to win TdF, beat all of those guys on every single occasion. And that was only in process of winning things much bigger than those ITTs. That's more impressive than one might have initially thought.

He did nothing but sit on his train for the rest of the year (except winning a reduced sprint in Romandie, how'd that happen again?). His climbing was vulnerable except he had an insanely strong team, very weak opposition, very weak and TT favoured parcourses and very weak opposition.
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2017 18:40

Red Rick wrote:
Anderis wrote:One thing that's being overlooked in Wiggins' 2012 season is that he won every single ITT>10 kms he rode the whole season. Every single one. There were plenty of guys who focused solely on ITT and Wiggins, who trained with intention of being good enough in the mountains to win TdF, beat all of those guys on every single occasion. And that was only in process of winning things much bigger than those ITTs. That's more impressive than one might have initially thought.

He did nothing but sit on his train for the rest of the year (except winning a reduced sprint in Romandie, how'd that happen again?). His climbing was vulnerable except he had an insanely strong team, very weak opposition, very weak and TT favoured parcourses and very weak opposition.

Yeah, it's not that Wiggins's time trialling is being overlooked, it's that time trialling basically was his season. He did absolutely nothing remarkable all year except his time trialling.

Which is why he doesn't really belong in this discussion.
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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2017 18:59

DFA123 wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Anderis wrote:One thing that's being overlooked in Wiggins' 2012 season is that he won every single ITT>10 kms he rode the whole season. Every single one. There were plenty of guys who focused solely on ITT and Wiggins, who trained with intention of being good enough in the mountains to win TdF, beat all of those guys on every single occasion. And that was only in process of winning things much bigger than those ITTs. That's more impressive than one might have initially thought.

He did nothing but sit on his train for the rest of the year (except winning a reduced sprint in Romandie, how'd that happen again?). His climbing was vulnerable except he had an insanely strong team, very weak opposition, very weak and TT favoured parcourses and very weak opposition.

Yeah, it's not that Wiggins's time trialling is being overlooked, it's that time trialling basically was his season. He did absolutely nothing remarkable all year except his time trialling.

Which is why he doesn't really belong in this discussion.

he was the second strongest climber in that tour, without a doubt. And to an extent almost all of the people in this thread have one strength which got them most of the success.
The fact that most people prefer other aspects of cycling, doesn't in the slightest render his achievements any less stellar.
Using you argument pantani 98 shouldn't be in here, because all he did was climb like a god, and nothing else.
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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2017 19:07

Red Rick wrote:
Anderis wrote:One thing that's being overlooked in Wiggins' 2012 season is that he won every single ITT>10 kms he rode the whole season. Every single one. There were plenty of guys who focused solely on ITT and Wiggins, who trained with intention of being good enough in the mountains to win TdF, beat all of those guys on every single occasion. And that was only in process of winning things much bigger than those ITTs. That's more impressive than one might have initially thought.

He did nothing but sit on his train for the rest of the year (except winning a reduced sprint in Romandie, how'd that happen again?). His climbing was vulnerable except he had an insanely strong team, very weak opposition, very weak and TT favoured parcourses and very weak opposition.


Inexplicably, by taking the front several hundred meters out, and then riding fast enough that nobody could pass him.
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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2017 19:11

Singer01 wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Anderis wrote:One thing that's being overlooked in Wiggins' 2012 season is that he won every single ITT>10 kms he rode the whole season. Every single one. There were plenty of guys who focused solely on ITT and Wiggins, who trained with intention of being good enough in the mountains to win TdF, beat all of those guys on every single occasion. And that was only in process of winning things much bigger than those ITTs. That's more impressive than one might have initially thought.

He did nothing but sit on his train for the rest of the year (except winning a reduced sprint in Romandie, how'd that happen again?). His climbing was vulnerable except he had an insanely strong team, very weak opposition, very weak and TT favoured parcourses and very weak opposition.

Yeah, it's not that Wiggins's time trialling is being overlooked, it's that time trialling basically was his season. He did absolutely nothing remarkable all year except his time trialling.

Which is why he doesn't really belong in this discussion.

he was the second strongest climber in that tour, without a doubt. And to an extent almost all of the people in this thread have one strength which got them most of the success.
The fact that most people prefer other aspects of cycling, doesn't in the slightest render his achievements any less stellar.
Using you argument pantani 98 shouldn't be in here, because all he did was climb like a god, and nothing else.

Except that Pantani did the Giro-Tour double in style, and with limited help from his team. In some cases the achievement trumps how it was achieved. In Wiggins's case it obviously doesn't.
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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2017 19:29

DFA123 wrote:
Singer01 wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Anderis wrote:One thing that's being overlooked in Wiggins' 2012 season is that he won every single ITT>10 kms he rode the whole season. Every single one. There were plenty of guys who focused solely on ITT and Wiggins, who trained with intention of being good enough in the mountains to win TdF, beat all of those guys on every single occasion. And that was only in process of winning things much bigger than those ITTs. That's more impressive than one might have initially thought.

He did nothing but sit on his train for the rest of the year (except winning a reduced sprint in Romandie, how'd that happen again?). His climbing was vulnerable except he had an insanely strong team, very weak opposition, very weak and TT favoured parcourses and very weak opposition.

Yeah, it's not that Wiggins's time trialling is being overlooked, it's that time trialling basically was his season. He did absolutely nothing remarkable all year except his time trialling.

Which is why he doesn't really belong in this discussion.

he was the second strongest climber in that tour, without a doubt. And to an extent almost all of the people in this thread have one strength which got them most of the success.
The fact that most people prefer other aspects of cycling, doesn't in the slightest render his achievements any less stellar.
Using you argument pantani 98 shouldn't be in here, because all he did was climb like a god, and nothing else.

Except that Pantani did the Giro-Tour double in style, and with limited help from his team. In some cases the achievement trumps how it was achieved. In Wiggins's case it obviously doesn't.


With all due respect Wiggins may be the most stylish TT specialist ever, that hair, those fred perry t-shirts, come on!!!
And he does have the most asthetically pleasing TT technique i have ever seen.
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15 Aug 2017 19:53

Do have to say that 2012 was a very interesting year in terms of stage races and who was on top. A number of riders who used to contend big races basically stopped doing that year, and a newer group top and sub top contenders took a while to establish themselves.

The 2 top climbers of the previous number of years were not at the Tour (Contador and Schleck). Schleck would never contend again
Evans, after his best year, started declining suddenly and would never be a threat for GTs again.
Valverde crashed in the Tour
Frank Schleck tested positive and would never contest a GT again
Menchov was a non factor, retired that year
I don't even remember what Samu did in the GTs in 2011.
Basso was below and past it by that Giro, would never compete for GTs again
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So why questions? If no answers?
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Re:

15 Aug 2017 20:07

Red Rick wrote:I don't even remember what Samu did in the GTs in 2012.


Crashed repeatedly. Got dropped even on the flat as a result.
2012 Tour de France had by far the weakest field of any Tour de France I've ever seen.
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11 Sep 2017 11:12

This thread needs a new entry for the poll
del1962
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11 Sep 2017 12:02

Pantani 98 and Froome 17 are remarkably similar. Like Froome, Pantani did pretty much nothing outside his Giro and Tour wins in 98. Ofc Giro-Tour is bigger than Tour-Vuelta, and Pantani did it with a lot more panache, but either way, I'd put Froome's season over most of that list.

Also Sagan 16 should be an option on that poll in front of many of the others
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11 Sep 2017 12:21

Simple. Pantani the last to do the Giro/Tour double. It may never be accomplished again.
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