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Commentatorballs

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

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06 Sep 2017 20:58

Speaking of Sean Kelly... He was commentating LBL '99, together with David Duffield, for Eurosport. When VDB was about to be caught by the group after his attack on La Redoute, Sean was critisising him for his youthful overenthusiasm and lack of tactical nous, ending his rant by saying, in his most condecending and assured tone: "He has a lot to learn..."
I still love Sean, though. :D
User avatar Squire
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Re: Commentatorballs

06 Sep 2017 21:01

Gigs_98 wrote:On the last descent of todays Vuelta stage, Eurosport germany commentator Kasten Migels: "at least the road is not wet" :o


It was hilarious when they were speculating whether Froome had some kind of red or green (or dark green) lamps on his power meter to suggest him how fast to go :D
Sestriere
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Re: Commentatorballs

06 Sep 2017 22:29

Sestriere wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:On the last descent of todays Vuelta stage, Eurosport germany commentator Kasten Migels: "at least the road is not wet" :o


It was hilarious when they were speculating whether Froome had some kind of red or green (or dark green) lamps on his power meter to suggest him how fast to go :D

Yeah, I generally like it when Jean Claude subliminally shows his dislike for team sky's controlled style of racing
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07 Sep 2017 21:18

Sean Kelly, easily the worst commentator. Kirby tries to get him involved and Kelly goes, 'well, yes....they gave it a real good go', 'Well, yes...' He contributes almost nothing of alue, while Kirby brings enthusiasm, anecdotes, word play's, silly puns, descriptions, and excitement. No he doesn't know everything, and neither do you (despite some people caliming that they actually do lol)
Oude Geuze
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07 Sep 2017 21:26

A lot of people on this board dont understand that being a commentator is much more difficult than identifying the times when a commentator makes a mistake. You can choose when to speak, the commentator has to cover everything.

To make a simple analogy, if you're watching jeopardy at home and answer every question you know, you will seem smart to your friends. But you are selecting which questions to answer, which makes it a lot easier. None of you would even come close to doing what Kirby does, and most of you would not even dear to. Of course, any idiot could do what Sean Kelly does, which is keep quiet, until you feel you have something to say. Even if that happens to be the same thing you said previously. And the time before that.
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Re: Re:

07 Sep 2017 21:43

Vesica wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:I think it's way too harsh to compare José Been to Kirby. She occasionally makes mistakes but most times this is just a matter of naming the wrong rider, the information is correct and she usually catches it and corrects herself right away. Unlike Kirby, she is respectful towards the riders, doesn't make unacceptable jokes, has vast amounts of cycling knowledge and although she clearly favors young Dutch and Belgian talents, pretty much all riders get equal attention from her. I really enjoy listening to her, especially with a good co-commentator like Karsten Kroon.

If you really want to name someone "the Kirby of the Netherlands", I think Maarten Ducrot is better match. Horrible commentator.


Indeed, that's an insult to Kirby. Been knows nothing, she's always too late with seeing things happening in the race, she makes mistakes about names, she doesn't know the situation in the race. Kirsten Kroon is even worse, he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Well, he's not watching the race otherwise he would talk about something else. The only proper commentator on Dutch/Belgium Eurosport is the Belgium guy (don't know his name), he got his info right, got most of the times the situation right.

Ducrot, in combination with Herbert Dijkstra, is the best we have in the Netherlands. In minor races we got Joris van de Berg, guy is horrible.


Jeroen Vanbelleghem? He's ok yeah. I think he posts here occasionally.

José Been is just absolutely terrible. Her twitter drama is fricking awfull. Why does she constantly have to twitter during the race? Please focus on improving your mediocre commentary. Why does she announce her retirement from twitter only to be back 2days later? So sad ES bought RCS races :(
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Re: Commentatorballs

07 Sep 2017 23:25

"And coming home in 5th today is Gorka Gerri.. Ger... er... ah... a rather large Basque name."

-Phil Liggett early 2000s
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Re: Commentatorballs

07 Sep 2017 23:59

perico wrote:"And coming home in 5th today is Gorka Gerri.. Ger... er... ah... a rather large Basque name."

-Phil Liggett early 2000s


Gorka Gerrikagoitia?!
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Re: Re:

08 Sep 2017 07:30

Breh wrote:
Vesica wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:I think it's way too harsh to compare José Been to Kirby. She occasionally makes mistakes but most times this is just a matter of naming the wrong rider, the information is correct and she usually catches it and corrects herself right away. Unlike Kirby, she is respectful towards the riders, doesn't make unacceptable jokes, has vast amounts of cycling knowledge and although she clearly favors young Dutch and Belgian talents, pretty much all riders get equal attention from her. I really enjoy listening to her, especially with a good co-commentator like Karsten Kroon.

If you really want to name someone "the Kirby of the Netherlands", I think Maarten Ducrot is better match. Horrible commentator.


Indeed, that's an insult to Kirby. Been knows nothing, she's always too late with seeing things happening in the race, she makes mistakes about names, she doesn't know the situation in the race. Kirsten Kroon is even worse, he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Well, he's not watching the race otherwise he would talk about something else. The only proper commentator on Dutch/Belgium Eurosport is the Belgium guy (don't know his name), he got his info right, got most of the times the situation right.

Ducrot, in combination with Herbert Dijkstra, is the best we have in the Netherlands. In minor races we got Joris van de Berg, guy is horrible.


Jeroen Vanbelleghem? He's ok yeah. I think he posts here occasionally.

José Been is just absolutely terrible. Her twitter drama is fricking awfull. Why does she constantly have to twitter during the race? Please focus on improving your mediocre commentary. Why does she announce her retirement from twitter only to be back 2days later? So sad ES bought RCS races :(


I agree with you, I've found myself following the Giro on the French eurosport since I was fearing that one day I might throw my remote at the screen. Even my dad who only watches the classics and tour can correct Been, which means a lot. Plus her rather large twitter addiction and her tendency to get in a war with everyone about anything on social networks (Lately, she commented that she didn't see why we belgians give nicknames to our national teams in any sport, when a friend of mine formulated a (not-in-the-slightest-rude) response she blatantly attacked her and then proceeded to block her when she couldn't admitt defeat.)
It's no surprise that she's blocked by a bunch of BIG names in cycling.
Every cyclists wants to look first-string, bar Bauke Mollema. He doesn't give a **** <-> Thijs Zonneveld
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Re:

08 Sep 2017 17:53

Oude Geuze wrote:A lot of people on this board dont understand that being a commentator is much more difficult than identifying the times when a commentator makes a mistake. You can choose when to speak, the commentator has to cover everything.

To make a simple analogy, if you're watching jeopardy at home and answer every question you know, you will seem smart to your friends. But you are selecting which questions to answer, which makes it a lot easier. None of you would even come close to doing what Kirby does, and most of you would not even dear to. Of course, any idiot could do what Sean Kelly does, which is keep quiet, until you feel you have something to say. Even if that happens to be the same thing you said previously. And the time before that.

Firstly, this thread is made to mock stupid things commentators say rather than criticise their overall quality. There is already a thread for that.

Secondly, the "you couldn't do a better job" argument is one of the most useless ones in the world. So what I can't manage a coach a team as well as Mourinho? That isn't my job, I'm not paid to do it, I haven't been picked to do it - but I can spot terrible moments and terrible decisions, and I have every right to criticise then for it. I can't play football as well as John Stones yet I can still say that he's a bad defender. I can't play rugby as well as the Italian national team, but I can still call them useless. Criticising Kirby does not exclude respecting his role; it merely says that he is not good enough to do it. Who cares if I can't do as well? There are others who so the job and are better, and there will be more who don't do the job who have the potential to be better. It's not just a single mistake - I don't care if a commentator says that a rider is Jelle Wallays instead of Sean de Bie: the issue is with when he can't read races, doesn't know who riders are (even when their names are displayed) and struggle with the most basic arithmetic and logic. Repeatedly. At that point I'd say that he isn't good enough.

Lastly, the jeopardy analogy is off for the reasons I stated above.

Diversion over.
Brullnux
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Re: Commentatorballs

08 Sep 2017 18:50

TMP402 wrote:
perico wrote:"And coming home in 5th today is Gorka Gerri.. Ger... er... ah... a rather large Basque name."

-Phil Liggett early 2000s


Gorka Gerrikagoitia?!

That was the one. It was hilarious to hear Liggett trying to figure out that one. It was during the Vuelta in one of the years Heras was riding for USPS.
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Re: Commentatorballs

08 Sep 2017 18:59

"I just about soiled my underwear."
-Duffield when David Millar attacked at the Worlds the year Cipollini won.

"People worship this man, and if you don't worship this man, well you should."

-Kirby on Contador at the Dauphine in 2016.

(Going by memory and may not be exact word for word)
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Re: Re:

08 Sep 2017 19:36

Brullnux wrote:
Oude Geuze wrote:A lot of people on this board dont understand that being a commentator is much more difficult than identifying the times when a commentator makes a mistake. You can choose when to speak, the commentator has to cover everything.

To make a simple analogy, if you're watching jeopardy at home and answer every question you know, you will seem smart to your friends. But you are selecting which questions to answer, which makes it a lot easier. None of you would even come close to doing what Kirby does, and most of you would not even dear to. Of course, any idiot could do what Sean Kelly does, which is keep quiet, until you feel you have something to say. Even if that happens to be the same thing you said previously. And the time before that.

Firstly, this thread is made to mock stupid things commentators say rather than criticise their overall quality. There is already a thread for that.

Secondly, the "you couldn't do a better job" argument is one of the most useless ones in the world. So what I can't manage a coach a team as well as Mourinho? That isn't my job, I'm not paid to do it, I haven't been picked to do it - but I can spot terrible moments and terrible decisions, and I have every right to criticise then for it. I can't play football as well as John Stones yet I can still say that he's a bad defender. I can't play rugby as well as the Italian national team, but I can still call them useless. Criticising Kirby does not exclude respecting his role; it merely says that he is not good enough to do it. Who cares if I can't do as well? There are others who so the job and are better, and there will be more who don't do the job who have the potential to be better. It's not just a single mistake - I don't care if a commentator says that a rider is Jelle Wallays instead of Sean de Bie: the issue is with when he can't read races, doesn't know who riders are (even when their names are displayed) and struggle with the most basic arithmetic and logic. Repeatedly. At that point I'd say that he isn't good enough.

Lastly, the jeopardy analogy is off for the reasons I stated above.

Diversion over.


I replied that way exactly because such a claim was made by people itt as a way of disparaging Kirby. The comment I made does pertain to this subject, and it is valid. You state that he can't read races or remember names. I have seen hours worth of Kirby commentating, and that simply is not true. Norwegian and danish commentators are no better, they occasionally miss things. Also, you have to remember that we are not the target audience. We are an insignificant minority. His job is to entertain the majority, and he's really good at animating even dull races. So your critique of him is both wrong and a result of an uninformed view of what he is hired to do. Frankly, it's immature elitism.
Oude Geuze
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08 Sep 2017 21:35

What grates me about Kirby is the sheer undiluted arrogance.

A break of 4 goes. 3 known riders and Abu el-Babbidiboobbidy from Saudi Arabia in his first pro race. Kirby names the other 3 and pretend there's no one else there. Once a clear picture of the guy's dossard is shown and Kirby has a chance to look him up on the startlist, he'll claim that "it's Abu el Babbadawhatsa, I can tell by his distinctive style".

If his job is simply to animate, then hire a standup comedian. At least that way our intelligence won't be insulted.
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09 Sep 2017 13:24

Kirby trying to get his head around the concept of domestiques.

"It could be that Poels is almost a sacrificial lamb out there today"
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 15:20

Oude Geuze wrote:
Brullnux wrote:
Oude Geuze wrote:A lot of people on this board dont understand that being a commentator is much more difficult than identifying the times when a commentator makes a mistake. You can choose when to speak, the commentator has to cover everything.

To make a simple analogy, if you're watching jeopardy at home and answer every question you know, you will seem smart to your friends. But you are selecting which questions to answer, which makes it a lot easier. None of you would even come close to doing what Kirby does, and most of you would not even dear to. Of course, any idiot could do what Sean Kelly does, which is keep quiet, until you feel you have something to say. Even if that happens to be the same thing you said previously. And the time before that.

Firstly, this thread is made to mock stupid things commentators say rather than criticise their overall quality. There is already a thread for that.

Secondly, the "you couldn't do a better job" argument is one of the most useless ones in the world. So what I can't manage a coach a team as well as Mourinho? That isn't my job, I'm not paid to do it, I haven't been picked to do it - but I can spot terrible moments and terrible decisions, and I have every right to criticise then for it. I can't play football as well as John Stones yet I can still say that he's a bad defender. I can't play rugby as well as the Italian national team, but I can still call them useless. Criticising Kirby does not exclude respecting his role; it merely says that he is not good enough to do it. Who cares if I can't do as well? There are others who so the job and are better, and there will be more who don't do the job who have the potential to be better. It's not just a single mistake - I don't care if a commentator says that a rider is Jelle Wallays instead of Sean de Bie: the issue is with when he can't read races, doesn't know who riders are (even when their names are displayed) and struggle with the most basic arithmetic and logic. Repeatedly. At that point I'd say that he isn't good enough.

Lastly, the jeopardy analogy is off for the reasons I stated above.

Diversion over.


I replied that way exactly because such a claim was made by people itt as a way of disparaging Kirby. The comment I made does pertain to this subject, and it is valid. You state that he can't read races or remember names. I have seen hours worth of Kirby commentating, and that simply is not true. Norwegian and danish commentators are no better, they occasionally miss things. Also, you have to remember that we are not the target audience. We are an insignificant minority. His job is to entertain the majority, and he's really good at animating even dull races. So your critique of him is both wrong and a result of an uninformed view of what he is hired to do. Frankly, it's immature elitism.


"Frankly, it's immature elitism."

Bingo.
Oude Geuze summed up in one sentence what I've been trying to say all along.
There is no script to cycling commentary. The commentators aren't always on the same feed of the broadcaster, so they're trying to figure stuff out and interpret it in real time. That's not an easy thing to do.
Condemning a guy who doesn't fit the profile is typical of road racers in general.
There has always been a sense of elitism in the sport, and I can't figure out why.
Compared to Kirby, Sean Kelly is absolutely atrocious. Yet we don't hear much criticism of him. (Edited to say I like Sean Kelly, but he's nowhere near as good as Kirby in calling a race.)

Anyhow, carry on. I didn't come here to derail the thread. Apologies.
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13 Sep 2017 13:49

From GP Wallonie: "They're getting closer and closer to the finish."

Oh... really? That's how it works? :surprised:

---

And today at PNDK one of the commentators on DR somehow managed to mix up a Wanty rider and a Bardiani rider. Those two kits aren't even remotely similar...
Aka The Ginger One.
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16 Sep 2017 13:02

José Been commented on the Froome nude photo today and mention his weight, which led to Michelle Cound commenting on Been's weight, too. Hilarious twitter conversation.
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Re:

16 Sep 2017 19:23

Bye Bye Bicycle wrote:José Been commented on the Froome nude photo today and mention his weight, which led to Michelle Cound commenting on Been's weight, too. Hilarious twitter conversation.


You don't happen to have a screenshot from that?
I always like to see Been getting owned.
Every cyclists wants to look first-string, bar Bauke Mollema. He doesn't give a **** <-> Thijs Zonneveld
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Re: Re:

16 Sep 2017 19:43

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