Log in:  

Register

World Championships Innsbruck 2018

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Eshnar, Irondan, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

08 Jun 2018 19:32

Man, if only Euskaltel-Euskadi was still a thing. It's crazy how such a small part of the country produces so many good riders.
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
User avatar Netserk
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,999
Joined: 30 Apr 2011 13:10
Location: Denmark

08 Jun 2018 19:43

It all depends on form, but as of today, I'd go with:
Valverde
Landa
Bilbao
Luisle
Castroviejo
Nieve
Gorka
Ion
User avatar DNP-Old
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,969
Joined: 06 Aug 2014 17:38
Location: Sevilla, España

Re:

08 Jun 2018 19:50

Netserk wrote:Man, if only Euskaltel-Euskadi was still a thing. It's crazy how such a small part of the country produces so many good riders.



There's now a Pro Conti team from that region again. Here's the name of it: Euskadi Basque Country-Murias
User avatar Koronin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,076
Joined: 14 Oct 2017 01:42
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re:

08 Jun 2018 20:23

Netserk wrote:Man, if only Euskaltel-Euskadi was still a thing. It's crazy how such a small part of the country produces so many good riders.

I've were talking about a small region of a big country maybe Trentino to a lesser extend.
User avatar Mayomaniac
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,246
Joined: 30 Jun 2014 17:11

Re:

08 Jun 2018 21:27

Netserk wrote:Man, if only Euskaltel-Euskadi was still a thing. It's crazy how such a small part of the country produces so many good riders.


The weirder part is that so many of them are climbers. It’s a mountainous area, but not at significant altitude and I’ve never noticed a preponderance of flyweight midgets walking the streets there.
Zinoviev Letter
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,169
Joined: 18 Aug 2010 13:18

08 Jun 2018 21:36

They did produce the fearsome sprinting trio of Koldo Feenández, Juanjo Lobato and Iñaki Isasi, though.
User avatar tobydawq
Member
 
Posts: 1,567
Joined: 16 Nov 2013 18:45
Location: Denmark

Re: Re:

08 Jun 2018 22:23

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Netserk wrote:Man, if only Euskaltel-Euskadi was still a thing. It's crazy how such a small part of the country produces so many good riders.


The weirder part is that so many of them are climbers. It’s a mountainous area, but not at significant altitude and I’ve never noticed a preponderance of flyweight midgets walking the streets there.



That seems to be Spain in general. They seem more likely to produce climbers in general than any other type of rider.
User avatar Koronin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,076
Joined: 14 Oct 2017 01:42
Location: North Carolina, USA

08 Jun 2018 22:34

For worlds, even if the climbs are shorter than big GT mountain stages, it is more about picking riders with longevity in the mountains, because of the many repetitions.

The riders that are best on shorter/sharper climbs, will burn out too soon, because there is more climbing at worlds, than at any other single day of the year.

I don't expect to see a single guy in the top 10, who did not do a top 20 in a GT this year.
Broccolidwarf
Member
 
Posts: 756
Joined: 26 Mar 2015 14:18
Location: Procrasti Nation

08 Jun 2018 23:01

There are plenty of less waifish climbers from the region though - Miguel Indurain, Abraham Olano, Aitor González and so on.

Climbers have historically dominated in Spain for a number of reasons. Most of the country's most supportive cycling regions are mountainous - País Vasco, Navarra, Asturias, Cantabria, and as a result many of the most important amateur races are in those regions. In cycling's formative years, the biggest races in the country were based there too, including those one-day races finishing on key climbs like Arrate, Urkiola and Monte Naranco. And back in those days the GPM was considered the second most important thing in a race after the overall win. Let's not forget that it was a Spaniard - Vicente Trueba - whose exploits led to the creation of the GPM in the first place. Also, the types of roads winding up the climbs in País Vasco and Asturias in particular (less so Catalunya, at least in the last 50 years since the development of the skiing industry) are steep, inconsistent and variable, which benefits a flyweight climber who can change tempo fast over a solid tempo climber, meaning that more of the riders who rise to the top out of the region are likely to be those flyweights than the heavier riders unless they have other strings to their bows (like the Izagirre brothers coming from cyclocross for example). Of the three sprinters mentioned above, Lobato's not Basque, only joining the team at the very end, and Isasi and Koldo are both from Álava, easily the flattest Basque province.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,528
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 11:54
Location: Land of Saíz

Re:

08 Jun 2018 23:37

Libertine Seguros wrote:There are plenty of less waifish climbers from the region though - Miguel Indurain, Abraham Olano, Aitor González and so on.

Climbers have historically dominated in Spain for a number of reasons. Most of the country's most supportive cycling regions are mountainous - País Vasco, Navarra, Asturias, Cantabria, and as a result many of the most important amateur races are in those regions. In cycling's formative years, the biggest races in the country were based there too, including those one-day races finishing on key climbs like Arrate, Urkiola and Monte Naranco. And back in those days the GPM was considered the second most important thing in a race after the overall win. Let's not forget that it was a Spaniard - Vicente Trueba - whose exploits led to the creation of the GPM in the first place. Also, the types of roads winding up the climbs in País Vasco and Asturias in particular (less so Catalunya, at least in the last 50 years since the development of the skiing industry) are steep, inconsistent and variable, which benefits a flyweight climber who can change tempo fast over a solid tempo climber, meaning that more of the riders who rise to the top out of the region are likely to be those flyweights than the heavier riders unless they have other strings to their bows (like the Izagirre brothers coming from cyclocross for example). Of the three sprinters mentioned above, Lobato's not Basque, only joining the team at the very end, and Isasi and Koldo are both from Álava, easily the flattest Basque province.



That actually goes back to the discussion we've had about why Valverde is so good and has so many of his wins in Spanish races vs really anywhere else. The Spanish climbs are perfect for a rider who can climb well and has the classic puncheur characteristics.

Laboto is from Andalucia.
User avatar Koronin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,076
Joined: 14 Oct 2017 01:42
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re:

09 Jun 2018 06:38

Libertine Seguros wrote:There are plenty of less waifish climbers from the region though - Miguel Indurain, Abraham Olano, Aitor González and so on.

Climbers have historically dominated in Spain for a number of reasons. Most of the country's most supportive cycling regions are mountainous - País Vasco, Navarra, Asturias, Cantabria, and as a result many of the most important amateur races are in those regions. In cycling's formative years, the biggest races in the country were based there too, including those one-day races finishing on key climbs like Arrate, Urkiola and Monte Naranco. And back in those days the GPM was considered the second most important thing in a race after the overall win. Let's not forget that it was a Spaniard - Vicente Trueba - whose exploits led to the creation of the GPM in the first place. Also, the types of roads winding up the climbs in País Vasco and Asturias in particular (less so Catalunya, at least in the last 50 years since the development of the skiing industry) are steep, inconsistent and variable, which benefits a flyweight climber who can change tempo fast over a solid tempo climber, meaning that more of the riders who rise to the top out of the region are likely to be those flyweights than the heavier riders unless they have other strings to their bows (like the Izagirre brothers coming from cyclocross for example). Of the three sprinters mentioned above, Lobato's not Basque, only joining the team at the very end, and Isasi and Koldo are both from Álava, easily the flattest Basque province.


Damn it! I fell for the 2013 roster trap. At least I didn't mention Ioannis Tamouridis as a Basque.
User avatar tobydawq
Member
 
Posts: 1,567
Joined: 16 Nov 2013 18:45
Location: Denmark

09 Jun 2018 16:20

btw. what is Basque comparing to Tuscany, where the real legend of cycling grew up, not like in Basque, country of mostly GPM only riders
you always can find some special region in Country where most of country cyclist grow up
bassano
Member
 
Posts: 436
Joined: 26 Nov 2014 13:47
Location: Czech Republic

Re:

09 Jun 2018 16:31

DNP-Old wrote:Valverde
Landa
Luisle
Soler
Ion
Gorka
Nieve
Bilbao
Herrada
De La Cruz
Alarcon :D
Roson
Mas
Castroviejo
Fraile
Navarro
Moreno
De La Parte

The best part about this team is that it's leader is clear, all for one. Whereas with the other countries; not so much. Valverde is also one of only few riders who can confidently wait for a sprint if he has to.


Yeah, he is clear and it is clear that he have very few chance to win, ardennes clasics just showed that his era is over, he can not handle hard race like this like noone of spain actually, they are not factor in this race
bassano
Member
 
Posts: 436
Joined: 26 Nov 2014 13:47
Location: Czech Republic

09 Jun 2018 16:44

Spain should bring Alarcon, Marque, Veloso, Garcia de Mateos, De La Fuente, Arroyo. They will all be flying just a month after the Volta. Then maybe Valverde, Landa etc to do some work on the front in the early kilometres.
blackcat wrote:you must respect the Cobra, a man who can give himself his own nickname. he trancends hubris.
User avatar luckyboy
Veteran
 
Posts: 8,624
Joined: 26 May 2009 21:26

Re: Re:

09 Jun 2018 17:55

bassano wrote:
DNP-Old wrote:Valverde
Landa
Luisle
Soler
Ion
Gorka
Nieve
Bilbao
Herrada
De La Cruz
Alarcon :D
Roson
Mas
Castroviejo
Fraile
Navarro
Moreno
De La Parte

The best part about this team is that it's leader is clear, all for one. Whereas with the other countries; not so much. Valverde is also one of only few riders who can confidently wait for a sprint if he has to.


Yeah, he is clear and it is clear that he have very few chance to win, ardennes clasics just showed that his era is over, he can not handle hard race like this like noone of spain actually, they are not factor in this race



Oh please. He started his season a lot closer to peak than he usually does and by the time the Ardennes rolled around he'd been trying to hold a peak since February. Also in case you missed it, he has never won LBL two years in a row and he has never actually won Amstel Gold. As for Fleche Wallone, he was out of position on the climb and actually climbed it at the SAME speed he's climbed it for all but one of his wins. That win is the all-time record to climb the Mur de Huy.
User avatar Koronin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,076
Joined: 14 Oct 2017 01:42
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re:

09 Jun 2018 21:31

bassano wrote:btw. what is Basque comparing to Tuscany, where the real legend of cycling grew up, not like in Basque, country of mostly GPM only riders
you always can find some special region in Country where most of country cyclist grow up

Of course, but we were talking about the Spanish team, and in Spain, Euskadi is the most overrepresented area, proportionally, in both the cycling calendar at the amateur and professional levels, both in respect of races and of riders.

Now, sure, there are similar cradles to the sport in other traditional cycling nations as well - Brétagne, Toscana, Varese - as well as in less traditional ones - Thüringen, Colorado - but the Basque region's very strong and separate cultural identity relative to the rest of Spain and its having its own team with its own inward-looking philosophy means that that identity as a cycling cradle has been much more ingrained in fans more recently than a lot of those others. And again, while País Vasco may be the land of mostly GPM riders, as I mentioned before, this is in a country where large amounts of the national calendar takes place in mountainous regions, the GPM has historically been highly prized, climbers have always been the favoured types of rider. The Vuelta in the 50s and 60s was deliberately focusing the parcours around the international stars it wanted to attract, and towns with improving infrastructure, so that often the home heroes would be out of contention before they reached their playgrounds in the mountains anyway.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,528
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 11:54
Location: Land of Saíz

Re: Re:

09 Jun 2018 21:45

Koronin wrote:
DNP-Old wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:
tobydawq wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:
Yes, but which of those riders are they actually gonna send?


Valverde, Landa and six others.


Yeah, but who?
Dammit, DNP-Old, if you're gonna make a team suggestion, make a team suggestion rather than just every Spanish rider.

I don't know, I don't have some sort of magic 8 ball. A lot depends on form and it's not like there's 8 clear cut choices in there. Valverde will go, that much I know, and he'll probably be the favorite to win it all no matter who starts alongside him.



Valverde and most likely he'll have input with the Spanish National Coach on who is supporting him. A lot will depend on form, also some will depend on who is racing la Vuelta. The Spanish National Coach does not like taking guys who don't ride la Vuelta.
Castroviejo will be there are the ITT but very unlikely on the RR team.
Landa is almost certainly going.

My guess right now:
Valverde as undisputed leader.
Landa, Ion and Gorka, Soler Roson, LL Sanchez, and one other.

Castroviejo and LL Sanchez for the ITT.


Are those guys down for the Vuelta as well as the Tour?
User avatar jaylew
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,039
Joined: 19 Mar 2009 05:46
Location: ATX

09 Jun 2018 22:20

The Izagirres are, as far as I know.
User avatar tobydawq
Member
 
Posts: 1,567
Joined: 16 Nov 2013 18:45
Location: Denmark

Re: Re:

09 Jun 2018 22:26

jaylew wrote:
Koronin wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:
tobydawq wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:
Yes, but which of those riders are they actually gonna send?


Valverde, Landa and six others.


Yeah, but who?
Dammit, DNP-Old, if you're gonna make a team suggestion, make a team suggestion rather than just every Spanish rider.

I don't know, I don't have some sort of magic 8 ball. A lot depends on form and it's not like there's 8 clear cut choices in there. Valverde will go, that much I know, and he'll probably be the favorite to win it all no matter who starts alongside him.



Valverde and most likely he'll have input with the Spanish National Coach on who is supporting him. A lot will depend on form, also some will depend on who is racing la Vuelta. The Spanish National Coach does not like taking guys who don't ride la Vuelta.
Castroviejo will be there are the ITT but very unlikely on the RR team.
Landa is almost certainly going.

My guess right now:
Valverde as undisputed leader.
Landa, Ion and Gorka, Soler Roson, LL Sanchez, and one other.

Castroviejo and LL Sanchez for the ITT.


Are those guys down for the Vuelta as well as the Tour?[/quote]


The Izagirre brothers are. They are supposed to be leading the Bahrain team at la Vuelta.

Originally Soler was supposed to be racing the Giro and Vuelta. At this point who knows.
User avatar Koronin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,076
Joined: 14 Oct 2017 01:42
Location: North Carolina, USA

10 Jun 2018 05:16

I think this course suits Nibali if he can time his form just right after the Tour.
Cookster15
Member
 
Posts: 1,088
Joined: 14 May 2011 19:25

PreviousNext

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bushman, Dekker_Tifosi, Google Adsense [Bot], Jaco0505, janraaskalt, Rollthedice, tobydawq, Valv.Piti and 53 guests

Back to top