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Lesser Known Race Results 2018

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01 Sep 2018 14:16

Ackermann wins Brussels Cycling classic. No idea why Jakobsen just stopped pedalling before the sprint was launched.
User avatar Flamin
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Re:

01 Sep 2018 14:18

Flamin wrote:Ackermann wins Brussels Cycling classic. No idea why Jakobsen just stopped pedalling before the sprint was launched.


It was Senechal and he was probably looking for Jakobsen after the crash.
roniek
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Re: Re:

01 Sep 2018 14:21

roniek wrote:
Flamin wrote:Ackermann wins Brussels Cycling classic. No idea why Jakobsen just stopped pedalling before the sprint was launched.


It was Senechal and he was probably looking for Jakobsen after the crash.


Ah yes of course, in the chaos I missed that another Stepper came from behind and Jakobsen got held up.
User avatar Flamin
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01 Sep 2018 14:21

So, four and a half months ago, Ackermann had never won a pro race.

Now he has won in six different countries.
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01 Sep 2018 14:35

Seems like Ackermann was the only sprinter that was able to properly sprint. :D

Démare had stupid tactics and AG2R pair of sprinters crashed unto each other.
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01 Sep 2018 14:36

yeah it was never a sprint after that fall. Think some AG2R leadout caused it.
Kinda said. Wanted to see Jakobsen really try against Ackermann like in Scheldeprijs. But it wasn't to be.

Great work by Bora in the last kilometer
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Re:

02 Sep 2018 00:15

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:yeah it was never a sprint after that fall. Think some AG2R leadout caused it.
Kinda said. Wanted to see Jakobsen really try against Ackermann like in Scheldeprijs. But it wasn't to be.

Great work by Bora in the last kilometer


Agreed. It’s a real pity we didn’t get to see an Ackermann - Jakobsen drag race, to see where the two breakthrough young sprinters of the year currently are against each other.

It’s an even bigger pity that neither are doing the Vuelta. Fair enough I suppose that QS are being careful with Jakobsen but Ackermann was 24 in January and should be ready to give a GT a go.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re: Re:

02 Sep 2018 05:23

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:yeah it was never a sprint after that fall. Think some AG2R leadout caused it.
Kinda said. Wanted to see Jakobsen really try against Ackermann like in Scheldeprijs. But it wasn't to be.

Great work by Bora in the last kilometer


Agreed. It’s a real pity we didn’t get to see an Ackermann - Jakobsen drag race, to see where the two breakthrough young sprinters of the year currently are against each other.

It’s an even bigger pity that neither are doing the Vuelta. Fair enough I suppose that QS are being careful with Jakobsen but Ackermann was 24 in January and should be ready to give a GT a go.


And he was scheduled to do it but then Sagan wanted to go and they didn't want to take both. IMO that's enough proof that the two and Bennett cannot keep living in harmony.
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Re: Re:

02 Sep 2018 09:04

tobydawq wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:yeah it was never a sprint after that fall. Think some AG2R leadout caused it.
Kinda said. Wanted to see Jakobsen really try against Ackermann like in Scheldeprijs. But it wasn't to be.

Great work by Bora in the last kilometer


Agreed. It’s a real pity we didn’t get to see an Ackermann - Jakobsen drag race, to see where the two breakthrough young sprinters of the year currently are against each other.

It’s an even bigger pity that neither are doing the Vuelta. Fair enough I suppose that QS are being careful with Jakobsen but Ackermann was 24 in January and should be ready to give a GT a go.


I think Bennett will be the one in surplus. It sounds harsh cause Bennett was really good in the Giro, but Ackermann is german is extremely fast and Sagan is Sagan.

And he was scheduled to do it but then Sagan wanted to go and they didn't want to take both. IMO that's enough proof that the two and Bennett cannot keep living in harmony.
"Es el mejor con y sin"
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Re: Re:

02 Sep 2018 11:43

Alexandre B. wrote:
toolittle wrote:It is a WT race. Top 3 are strong riders with great form.
Lesser Known Race Results... ****... This might be the greatest "Lesser Known Race".

I would've like to open a thread but I hadn't got time.

What saddens me the most is that last stage of Deutschland Tour had more coverage than this despite this edition being excellent.


How about the worst and unimportant "Well Known Race"? :rolleyes:
toolittle
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Re: Lesser Known Race Results 2018

02 Sep 2018 15:27

GP de Fourmies

Pascal Ackermann doing Pascal Ackermann things...

Image
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02 Sep 2018 16:53

This guy is on fire!
User avatar Hugo Koblet
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Re:

03 Sep 2018 23:29

Hugo Koblet wrote:This guy is on fire!


He should be at the Vuelta.

Unbelievable that Bora have all three of their main sprinters contracted for next year. There just aren’t enough big races to go around. There will be problems next year. Either Bennett or Ackermann would be the main man at well over half of WT teams. It will be hard to convince even one of them to play second fiddle after next year. Why would they? Bennett just won three Giro stages. Ackermann has won seven races in the last three months. No sprinter is humble enough to accept never doing the Tour or MSR when they are that fast and win that much.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re: Re:

04 Sep 2018 04:42

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Hugo Koblet wrote:This guy is on fire!


He should be at the Vuelta.

Unbelievable that Bora have all three of their main sprinters contracted for next year. There just aren’t enough big races to go around. There will be problems next year. Either Bennett or Ackermann would be the main man at well over half of WT teams. It will be hard to convince even one of them to play second fiddle after next year. Why would they? Bennett just won three Giro stages. Ackermann has won seven races in the last three months. No sprinter is humble enough to accept never doing the Tour or MSR when they are that fast and win that much.


Been saying exactly the same thing for months - Ackermann neads to ride a GT in year three for his future development and if Sagan does the TDF/Vuelta again where does it leave Ackermann.
yaco
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Re: Re:

04 Sep 2018 15:02

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Hugo Koblet wrote:This guy is on fire!


He should be at the Vuelta.

Unbelievable that Bora have all three of their main sprinters contracted for next year. There just aren’t enough big races to go around. There will be problems next year. Either Bennett or Ackermann would be the main man at well over half of WT teams. It will be hard to convince even one of them to play second fiddle after next year. Why would they? Bennett just won three Giro stages. Ackermann has won seven races in the last three months. No sprinter is humble enough to accept never doing the Tour or MSR when they are that fast and win that much.


I already said so a couple of times here and there but I don't think it will be too much of a problem next year. Of course, if the three of them were still contracted for Bora in 2020, it would be a problem. For 2019, it's still manageable.
And I especially don't agree on the "there just aren't enough big races to go around", there definitely are. Look at the last third of the season (August-September). At first, when I heard Sagan would race the Vuelta, I wasn't convinced. But fact is it has made lot of sense so far. Sagan: Vuelta. Ackermann: Hambourg, Deutschland, Fourmies, Bruxelles, Münster. Bennett: Bretagne, Québec, Montréal. All of them have a calendar with nice races that fit to their profiles perfectly.

For next year, Bennett already said it's not a problem for him not to race the Tour. Ackermann is obviously too young for the Tour. The Tour is then not a problem for 2019. It might be for 2020, but I think Bennett would have left the team then.
Bennett only wants one thing: race MSR. Which is perfectly possible and would make sense for him to go (tactically, it's better for Bora to have both Sagan and Bennett there).

Among all the nice races the calendar offers, there are plenty of races to make them all three happy next year.
(and I would add that sadly for him since Bennett has quite often health issues or completely out of shape, some possible troubles will be avoided de facto :D )
Beobachter
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Re: Re:

04 Sep 2018 18:12

Beobachter wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Hugo Koblet wrote:This guy is on fire!


He should be at the Vuelta.

Unbelievable that Bora have all three of their main sprinters contracted for next year. There just aren’t enough big races to go around. There will be problems next year. Either Bennett or Ackermann would be the main man at well over half of WT teams. It will be hard to convince even one of them to play second fiddle after next year. Why would they? Bennett just won three Giro stages. Ackermann has won seven races in the last three months. No sprinter is humble enough to accept never doing the Tour or MSR when they are that fast and win that much.


I already said so a couple of times here and there but I don't think it will be too much of a problem next year. Of course, if the three of them were still contracted for Bora in 2020, it would be a problem. For 2019, it's still manageable.
And I especially don't agree on the "there just aren't enough big races to go around", there definitely are. Look at the last third of the season (August-September). At first, when I heard Sagan would race the Vuelta, I wasn't convinced. But fact is it has made lot of sense so far. Sagan: Vuelta. Ackermann: Hambourg, Deutschland, Fourmies, Bruxelles, Münster. Bennett: Bretagne, Québec, Montréal. All of them have a calendar with nice races that fit to their profiles perfectly.

For next year, Bennett already said it's not a problem for him not to race the Tour. Ackermann is obviously too young for the Tour. The Tour is then not a problem for 2019. It might be for 2020, but I think Bennett would have left the team then.
Bennett only wants one thing: race MSR. Which is perfectly possible and would make sense for him to go (tactically, it's better for Bora to have both Sagan and Bennett there).

Among all the nice races the calendar offers, there are plenty of races to make them all three happy next year.
(and I would add that sadly for him since Bennett has quite often health issues or completely out of shape, some possible troubles will be avoided de facto :D )


You conveniently miss the point - A third year rider should be aiming to ride a GT for development reasons - And of course Ackermann is a chance to win a stage - 2020 will be problematic because if Bennett and Ackermann continue to improve then Bora won't have the budget.
yaco
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Re: Re:

04 Sep 2018 19:13

yaco wrote:
Beobachter wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Hugo Koblet wrote:This guy is on fire!


He should be at the Vuelta.

Unbelievable that Bora have all three of their main sprinters contracted for next year. There just aren’t enough big races to go around. There will be problems next year. Either Bennett or Ackermann would be the main man at well over half of WT teams. It will be hard to convince even one of them to play second fiddle after next year. Why would they? Bennett just won three Giro stages. Ackermann has won seven races in the last three months. No sprinter is humble enough to accept never doing the Tour or MSR when they are that fast and win that much.


I already said so a couple of times here and there but I don't think it will be too much of a problem next year. Of course, if the three of them were still contracted for Bora in 2020, it would be a problem. For 2019, it's still manageable.
And I especially don't agree on the "there just aren't enough big races to go around", there definitely are. Look at the last third of the season (August-September). At first, when I heard Sagan would race the Vuelta, I wasn't convinced. But fact is it has made lot of sense so far. Sagan: Vuelta. Ackermann: Hambourg, Deutschland, Fourmies, Bruxelles, Münster. Bennett: Bretagne, Québec, Montréal. All of them have a calendar with nice races that fit to their profiles perfectly.

For next year, Bennett already said it's not a problem for him not to race the Tour. Ackermann is obviously too young for the Tour. The Tour is then not a problem for 2019. It might be for 2020, but I think Bennett would have left the team then.
Bennett only wants one thing: race MSR. Which is perfectly possible and would make sense for him to go (tactically, it's better for Bora to have both Sagan and Bennett there).

Among all the nice races the calendar offers, there are plenty of races to make them all three happy next year.
(and I would add that sadly for him since Bennett has quite often health issues or completely out of shape, some possible troubles will be avoided de facto :D )


You conveniently miss the point - A third year rider should be aiming to ride a GT for development reasons - And of course Ackermann is a chance to win a stage - 2020 will be problematic because if Bennett and Ackermann continue to improve then Bora won't have the budget.


Well, my words were also considering the GTs. Of course, Ackermann should aim stage wins at a GT next year, so will he since it's how it's planned ;)
I would prefer him to race the Giro over the Vuelta (which would mean Bennett racing the Vuelta ; just my preference though ;) ). Both GTs are an option so far, we'll see.

For 2020, I dont think money would be the problem (if Bora succeeds to keep all their current leaders + manages to sign Schachmann as rumored, it would mean that money is not really an issue for them). The problem would rather be if the riders are all too good to be satisfied of their roles in the team. That's why I think unfortunately Bennett will move to another team then. But again, it's about 2020. There is 2019 before, so plenty of time to see how the situation will evolve ;)
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Re: Re:

04 Sep 2018 22:00

Beobachter wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Hugo Koblet wrote:This guy is on fire!


He should be at the Vuelta.

Unbelievable that Bora have all three of their main sprinters contracted for next year. There just aren’t enough big races to go around. There will be problems next year. Either Bennett or Ackermann would be the main man at well over half of WT teams. It will be hard to convince even one of them to play second fiddle after next year. Why would they? Bennett just won three Giro stages. Ackermann has won seven races in the last three months. No sprinter is humble enough to accept never doing the Tour or MSR when they are that fast and win that much.


I already said so a couple of times here and there but I don't think it will be too much of a problem next year. Of course, if the three of them were still contracted for Bora in 2020, it would be a problem. For 2019, it's still manageable.
And I especially don't agree on the "there just aren't enough big races to go around", there definitely are. Look at the last third of the season (August-September). At first, when I heard Sagan would race the Vuelta, I wasn't convinced. But fact is it has made lot of sense so far. Sagan: Vuelta. Ackermann: Hambourg, Deutschland, Fourmies, Bruxelles, Münster. Bennett: Bretagne, Québec, Montréal. All of them have a calendar with nice races that fit to their profiles perfectly.

For next year, Bennett already said it's not a problem for him not to race the Tour. Ackermann is obviously too young for the Tour. The Tour is then not a problem for 2019. It might be for 2020, but I think Bennett would have left the team then.
Bennett only wants one thing: race MSR. Which is perfectly possible and would make sense for him to go (tactically, it's better for Bora to have both Sagan and Bennett there).

Among all the nice races the calendar offers, there are plenty of races to make them all three happy next year.
(and I would add that sadly for him since Bennett has quite often health issues or completely out of shape, some possible troubles will be avoided de facto :D )


The problem with this is that Bennett and Ackermann have been just a bit too good. Both are clearly on an upswing - last year Bennett won his first WT races, this season his first GT stages, Ackermann has been winning smaller races for fun and has his first WT wins already. If Bennett had won say just a single Giro stage and had looked generally slower than Viviani and if Ackermann had won say four races rather than eight, there would be more room for their careers to move forward while on the same team as Sagan and each other. But that didn’t happen and both already look like top rank sprinters (I think there’s currently a top tier of eight to ten guys who can all beat each other on their day, perhaps the deepest sprint field with the least clear hierarchy ever).

They are all under contract and they are professionals. They may be able to manage next season. Bennett would be I think willing to accept the Giro and being on the MSR team as the “in case it comes back together” option. Ackermann may be willing to accept the Vuelta as he hasn’t done a GT yet. But I’m not sure about that second part, particularly if he keeps winning. If both improve again next year though the issue becomes less whether Bora can keep all three and more if they can keep either rider. Even if say Bennett goes, an Ackermann with maybe 10 wins and a couple of GT stages next year is really going to think that he deserves to be the main man somewhere too.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re: Re:

05 Sep 2018 06:44

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Beobachter wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Hugo Koblet wrote:This guy is on fire!


He should be at the Vuelta.

Unbelievable that Bora have all three of their main sprinters contracted for next year. There just aren’t enough big races to go around. There will be problems next year. Either Bennett or Ackermann would be the main man at well over half of WT teams. It will be hard to convince even one of them to play second fiddle after next year. Why would they? Bennett just won three Giro stages. Ackermann has won seven races in the last three months. No sprinter is humble enough to accept never doing the Tour or MSR when they are that fast and win that much.


I already said so a couple of times here and there but I don't think it will be too much of a problem next year. Of course, if the three of them were still contracted for Bora in 2020, it would be a problem. For 2019, it's still manageable.
And I especially don't agree on the "there just aren't enough big races to go around", there definitely are. Look at the last third of the season (August-September). At first, when I heard Sagan would race the Vuelta, I wasn't convinced. But fact is it has made lot of sense so far. Sagan: Vuelta. Ackermann: Hambourg, Deutschland, Fourmies, Bruxelles, Münster. Bennett: Bretagne, Québec, Montréal. All of them have a calendar with nice races that fit to their profiles perfectly.

For next year, Bennett already said it's not a problem for him not to race the Tour. Ackermann is obviously too young for the Tour. The Tour is then not a problem for 2019. It might be for 2020, but I think Bennett would have left the team then.
Bennett only wants one thing: race MSR. Which is perfectly possible and would make sense for him to go (tactically, it's better for Bora to have both Sagan and Bennett there).

Among all the nice races the calendar offers, there are plenty of races to make them all three happy next year.
(and I would add that sadly for him since Bennett has quite often health issues or completely out of shape, some possible troubles will be avoided de facto :D )


The problem with this is that Bennett and Ackermann have been just a bit too good. Both are clearly on an upswing - last year Bennett won his first WT races, this season his first GT stages, Ackermann has been winning smaller races for fun and has his first WT wins already. If Bennett had won say just a single Giro stage and had looked generally slower than Viviani and if Ackermann had won say four races rather than eight, there would be more room for their careers to move forward while on the same team as Sagan and each other. But that didn’t happen and both already look like top rank sprinters (I think there’s currently a top tier of eight to ten guys who can all beat each other on their day, perhaps the deepest sprint field with the least clear hierarchy ever).

They are all under contract and they are professionals. They may be able to manage next season. Bennett would be I think willing to accept the Giro and being on the MSR team as the “in case it comes back together” option. Ackermann may be willing to accept the Vuelta as he hasn’t done a GT yet. But I’m not sure about that second part, particularly if he keeps winning. If both improve again next year though the issue becomes less whether Bora can keep all three and more if they can keep either rider. Even if say Bennett goes, an Ackermann with maybe 10 wins and a couple of GT stages next year is really going to think that he deserves to be the main man somewhere too.


Well, I think Ackermann like all the guys at Bora knows what he needs to do, all seem to be patient enough to develop themselves step by step, no one seems to be willing to risk to be burned by their ambition and by being willing to go too fast.
The race calendar is one thing, the supposed role is another, but so are the team environnement, the consideration received by the team. Moving to another team is never so obvious, it's even less for someone like Ackermann (who turned pro at Bora - which means thanks to them -, who is German like the team is, who has his friends in the team...).
Again, there shouldn't be any problem next year. 2020 is in a while, so we'll see then but I wouldn't worry for now about that since on the big picture Bora offers many advantages.

And anyway, the answer should be delivered soon enough. Bora is terribly slow to announce the renewals, but it will come one day and that day we'll know whether Ackermann extended for one year or for two years (or - one can dream :D - three years), which will enlighten us on how (and where) Ackermann sees his future ;)
Beobachter
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05 Sep 2018 11:42

In fact, there should be plenty of problems next year, and if Ackermann were riding for another team we would all be waiting to see how many stages he would win in his debut Tour.

Indtead you're telling yourself and us, that he is "obviously not ready" for the Tour next year. This is just not true.
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