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The Deceuninck - Quickstep Thread

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Re: Re:

11 Jan 2019 15:10

roundabout wrote:
Breh wrote:Jungels wants to ride some cobbles this season. I can only applaud that.

I hope he turns his focus back to classics because I'm afraid he'll always be a fringe top10 contender in GT's. Or perhaps 1week races is where his niche is.


cobbles + Giro for GC + Tour may not be a great idea

In the two articles (both here on Cyclingnews) where he announced his return to the Giro and his intention to ride on the cobbles he never mentioned the Tour.
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Re: Re:

11 Jan 2019 15:31

Nirvana wrote:
roundabout wrote:
Breh wrote:Jungels wants to ride some cobbles this season. I can only applaud that.

I hope he turns his focus back to classics because I'm afraid he'll always be a fringe top10 contender in GT's. Or perhaps 1week races is where his niche is.


cobbles + Giro for GC + Tour may not be a great idea

In the two articles (both here on Cyclingnews) where he announced his return to the Giro and his intention to ride on the cobbles he never mentioned the Tour.

indeed -
Luxemburger Wort, 8th Jan 2019
Radprofi Bob Jungels wird die Frühjahrsklassiker auf belgischem Kopfsteinpflaster bestreiten. Ein Start bei der Tour de France ist nicht geplant.
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11 Jan 2019 18:39

Thats a bummer for Mas since Jungels is probably the only guy capable of (really) assisting him in the mountains. Alaphilppe, Serry, Knox or Capecchi are nowhere close to Jungels. And lets face it, Jungels is not gonna win the Giro either, so for the team it would be better if he would ride for Enric Mas instead of hoping for another top 10 in Italy at best.
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Re:

11 Jan 2019 19:45

Akuryo wrote:Thats a bummer for Mas since Jungels is probably the only guy capable of (really) assisting him in the mountains. Alaphilppe, Serry, Knox or Capecchi are nowhere close to Jungels. And lets face it, Jungels is not gonna win the Giro either, so for the team it would be better if he would ride for Enric Mas instead of hoping for another top 10 in Italy at best.


They only have to deliver him to the last climb. Then it will just be if he has the legs or not. Strong team for TTT is important though. Other teams like Sky gonna control the race regardless.

And Mas is also an outsider for a podium finish imo, but a white jersey favorite.

Jungels won Liege last year. I think letting him do classics season and riding Giro as leader is not strange at all. I think sending him as domestique for Mas would not sit right at all.
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Re: Re:

12 Jan 2019 05:08

Salvarani wrote:
Akuryo wrote:Thats a bummer for Mas since Jungels is probably the only guy capable of (really) assisting him in the mountains. Alaphilppe, Serry, Knox or Capecchi are nowhere close to Jungels. And lets face it, Jungels is not gonna win the Giro either, so for the team it would be better if he would ride for Enric Mas instead of hoping for another top 10 in Italy at best.


They only have to deliver him to the last climb. Then it will just be if he has the legs or not. Strong team for TTT is important though. Other teams like Sky gonna control the race regardless.

And Mas is also an outsider for a podium finish imo, but a white jersey favorite.

Jungels won Liege last year. I think letting him do classics season and riding Giro as leader is not strange at all. I think sending him as domestique for Mas would not sit right at all.


I dont get that logic. Why would winning a one day race enable you to be captain for a GT?! :confused:
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Re: Re:

12 Jan 2019 09:45

Akuryo wrote:
Salvarani wrote:
Akuryo wrote:Thats a bummer for Mas since Jungels is probably the only guy capable of (really) assisting him in the mountains. Alaphilppe, Serry, Knox or Capecchi are nowhere close to Jungels. And lets face it, Jungels is not gonna win the Giro either, so for the team it would be better if he would ride for Enric Mas instead of hoping for another top 10 in Italy at best.


They only have to deliver him to the last climb. Then it will just be if he has the legs or not. Strong team for TTT is important though. Other teams like Sky gonna control the race regardless.

And Mas is also an outsider for a podium finish imo, but a white jersey favorite.

Jungels won Liege last year. I think letting him do classics season and riding Giro as leader is not strange at all. I think sending him as domestique for Mas would not sit right at all.


I dont get that logic. Why would winning a one day race enable you to be captain for a GT?! :confused:


He also has top 10s on GC and is one of their best riders on the team. Won a monument. With the ITTs in the Giro he has a good chance to place pretty high, if he rides solid in the mountains.

Mas did great in the Vuelta, but is also young, and not yet above Jungels in the pecking order. That Jugnels should ride as his dom. Jungels also probably hitting the years where he will be at his best. Do I think he can win a GT? No. But that is neither here nor there. It is about managing your riders on the team.
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2019 14:28

Salvarani wrote:
Akuryo wrote:
Salvarani wrote:
Akuryo wrote:Thats a bummer for Mas since Jungels is probably the only guy capable of (really) assisting him in the mountains. Alaphilppe, Serry, Knox or Capecchi are nowhere close to Jungels. And lets face it, Jungels is not gonna win the Giro either, so for the team it would be better if he would ride for Enric Mas instead of hoping for another top 10 in Italy at best.


They only have to deliver him to the last climb. Then it will just be if he has the legs or not. Strong team for TTT is important though. Other teams like Sky gonna control the race regardless.

And Mas is also an outsider for a podium finish imo, but a white jersey favorite.

Jungels won Liege last year. I think letting him do classics season and riding Giro as leader is not strange at all. I think sending him as domestique for Mas would not sit right at all.


I dont get that logic. Why would winning a one day race enable you to be captain for a GT?! :confused:


He also has top 10s on GC and is one of their best riders on the team. Won a monument. With the ITTs in the Giro he has a good chance to place pretty high, if he rides solid in the mountains.

Mas did great in the Vuelta, but is also young, and not yet above Jungels in the pecking order. That Jugnels should ride as his dom. Jungels also probably hitting the years where he will be at his best. Do I think he can win a GT? No. But that is neither here nor there. It is about managing your riders on the team.


It's also about securing your future. A GT podium >>>>> 2 GT Top Tens.
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2019 15:44

perico wrote:
Salvarani wrote:
Akuryo wrote:
Salvarani wrote:
Akuryo wrote:Thats a bummer for Mas since Jungels is probably the only guy capable of (really) assisting him in the mountains. Alaphilppe, Serry, Knox or Capecchi are nowhere close to Jungels. And lets face it, Jungels is not gonna win the Giro either, so for the team it would be better if he would ride for Enric Mas instead of hoping for another top 10 in Italy at best.


They only have to deliver him to the last climb. Then it will just be if he has the legs or not. Strong team for TTT is important though. Other teams like Sky gonna control the race regardless.

And Mas is also an outsider for a podium finish imo, but a white jersey favorite.

Jungels won Liege last year. I think letting him do classics season and riding Giro as leader is not strange at all. I think sending him as domestique for Mas would not sit right at all.


I dont get that logic. Why would winning a one day race enable you to be captain for a GT?! :confused:


He also has top 10s on GC and is one of their best riders on the team. Won a monument. With the ITTs in the Giro he has a good chance to place pretty high, if he rides solid in the mountains.

Mas did great in the Vuelta, but is also young, and not yet above Jungels in the pecking order. That Jugnels should ride as his dom. Jungels also probably hitting the years where he will be at his best. Do I think he can win a GT? No. But that is neither here nor there. It is about managing your riders on the team.


It's also about securing your future. A GT podium >>>>> 2 GT Top Tens.



Still about managing the riders on your team and looking towards the team >>>>>>> than betting it all on one rider
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13 Jan 2019 15:59

Don't even think Jungels is the 15th best climber to go to the Giro, and at those spots in the GC they throw with minutes in the mountains.
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13 Jan 2019 17:26

Jungels fell out of GC podium contention after the first week of the 2016 Giro and that GC field was much weaker than this year's. Plus two of that Giro's podium finishers will be in this year's Giro.
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13 Jan 2019 18:01

Yeah, Jungels should only ride the Tour this year in support for Mas. Good way to manage him and his talents.
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Re:

13 Jan 2019 18:11

Salvarani wrote:Yeah, Jungels should only ride the Tour this year in support for Mas. Good way to manage him and his talents.


He had 3 years to prove himself as a GC rider and 6th was his best result where he beat the greats named Amador, Atapuma, Siutsou and Dupont while Mas finished 2nd in only his second attempt beating riders like Lopez, Quintana, Pinot, Valverde and others. So yeah, in terms of GC I thinks its fair to say that Jungels should help Mas in his quest for a Tour podium. Which is more likely than another top 10 by Jungels in the 2019 Giro. But that does not take away that Jungels is still a great rider who would get his chances in the classics where he seems better suited anyway.
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2019 18:23

Akuryo wrote:
Salvarani wrote:Yeah, Jungels should only ride the Tour this year in support for Mas. Good way to manage him and his talents.


He had 3 years to prove himself as a GC rider and 6th was his best result where he beat the greats named Amador, Atapuma, Siutsou and Dupont while Mas finished 2nd in only his second attempt beating riders like Lopez, Quintana, Pinot, Valverde and others. So yeah, in terms of GC I thinks its fair to say that Jungels should help Mas in his quest for a Tour podium. Which is more likely than another top 10 by Jungels in the 2019 Giro. But that does not take away that Jungels is still a great rider who would get his chances in the classics where he seems better suited anyway.


I have not argued that though... Ive said they to have manage their riders. They seem to be doing that the best also with developing and improvements their riders does on that team. If Jungels is supposed to be good for his races. Maybe riding as dom in the Tour isnt on the schedule for him. Or he will ride the classics and Giro. Then go as dom for Tour.
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13 Jan 2019 18:35

Not sure why so much negativity towards Jungels chances. If Thomas, Dumoulin, Roglic, Froome etc... can transform themselves into some of the best stage racers in the world then Jungels certainly can - he's shown as much talent as all of the above from a young age.

Given the way the type of rider that challenges for GTs has evolved in the last couple of years, it would be criminal not to give Jungels every chance to fulfil his potential as one.
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Re:

13 Jan 2019 18:47

DFA123 wrote:Not sure why so much negativity towards Jungels chances. If Thomas, Dumoulin, Roglic, Froome etc... can transform themselves into some of the best stage racers in the world then Jungels certainly can - he's shown as much talent as all of the above from a young age.

Given the way the type of rider that challenges for GTs has evolved in the last couple of years, it would be criminal not to give Jungels every chance to fulfil his potential as one.


Exactly, and having him ride as dom would stop that development in a way.

A course that should suit him with 3 ITTs (that is in the Giro), he has a very good chance of finishing high on the GC.

And if anything the "natural climbers" are the ones that has had horrific stages and lost minutes in the mountains on an off day. While the names you mentioned seem to be able to hang on over three weeks. Jungels is in the mould of those riders as you said too.
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Re:

13 Jan 2019 18:55

DFA123 wrote:Not sure why so much negativity towards Jungels chances. If Thomas, Dumoulin, Roglic, Froome etc... can transform themselves into some of the best stage racers in the world then Jungels certainly can - he's shown as much talent as all of the above from a young age.

Given the way the type of rider that challenges for GTs has evolved in the last couple of years, it would be criminal not to give Jungels every chance to fulfil his potential as one.

Every example you give did much better when they first really led a GT than Jungels did in 3 attempts by a big margin, and it's not like his results in smaller stage races suggest he has the makings of a top GC rider either, with his lone podium in a WT stage race being the infamous 2016 Tirreno Adriatico, after well known GC prodigies Greg van Avermaet and Peter Sagan.

He tried to go for GC in the Tour last year and his best result in a mountain stage was 11th in a stage where he started the final climb with minutes of advantage on the main GC group and finished almost 2 minutes down.

ITTs matter much less around 10th place on GC then at the very top. He can easily drop 15 minutes to a superior climber over 3 weeks and he might take like 2 minutes back, not to mention that all of the guys mentioned are superior TT'ers in the first place.
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2019 19:20

Red Rick wrote:
DFA123 wrote:Not sure why so much negativity towards Jungels chances. If Thomas, Dumoulin, Roglic, Froome etc... can transform themselves into some of the best stage racers in the world then Jungels certainly can - he's shown as much talent as all of the above from a young age.

Given the way the type of rider that challenges for GTs has evolved in the last couple of years, it would be criminal not to give Jungels every chance to fulfil his potential as one.

Every example you give did much better when they first really led a GT than Jungels did in 3 attempts by a big margin, and it's not like his results in smaller stage races suggest he has the makings of a top GC rider either, with his lone podium in a WT stage race being the infamous 2016 Tirreno Adriatico, after well known GC prodigies Greg van Avermaet and Peter Sagan.

He tried to go for GC in the Tour last year and his best result in a mountain stage was 11th in a stage where he started the final climb with minutes of advantage on the main GC group and finished almost 2 minutes down.

ITTs matter much less around 10th place on GC then at the very top. He can easily drop 15 minutes to a superior climber over 3 weeks and he might take like 2 minutes back, not to mention that all of the guys mentioned are superior TT'ers in the first place.



The 2016 T-A in which they cancelled the only mountain stage and Nibali spent that day showing pictures and ranting about how stupid cancelling that stage was.
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13 Jan 2019 19:39

Yes, that's the one.
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13 Jan 2019 22:07

Mas giving more promise for a GT podium than Jungels is one thing but when you force riders as good as Jungels to be domestiques (especially in a team so short of climbing talents as 2019 Deceuninck) you risk them to become disheartened and not training as well and limiting your prospects all across the calendar in the long-term. This of course depends on a rider's character too, and the promises you gave him, but you have to consider this.
Wij steunen hem, tenzij hij niet genoeg fietst.
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Re:

13 Jan 2019 22:13

Anderis wrote:Mas giving more promise for a GT podium than Jungels is one thing but when you force riders as good as Jungels to be domestiques (especially in a team so short of climbing talents as 2019 Deceuninck) you risk them to become disheartened and not training as well and limiting your prospects all across the calendar in the long-term. This of course depends on a rider's character too, and the promises you gave him, but you have to consider this.

That's the exact reason Jungels should get his chances in classics, although he's on the wrong damn team to get real chances on the cobbles.
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