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The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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Re:

14 Oct 2018 17:53

Like I said, it says absolutely nothing, but I think it's fun to compare. Notable intermediates at P1 of Chrono des Nations:
TOFT MADSEN Martin: 13'25"21 (Pro)
BJERG Mikkel: 13'26"97 (Pro)
JORGENSEN Mathias Norsgaard: 13'27"27 (U23)
ROSSETTO Stephane: 13'50"60 (Pro)
EVENEPOEL Remco: 13'57"65 (MJ)
LATOUR Pierre: 13'58"31 (Pro)
BRUNEL Alexys (U23)
LE BON Johan: 14'04"59 (Pro)
CASSAERT Loran: 14'05"81 (U23)
ROY Jérémy: 14'05"92 (Pro)
NIBALI Vincenzo: 14'08"80 (Pro)
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14 Oct 2018 18:39

just for fun and very back of the envelope, but under certain assumptions, Evenepoel would have been about 2:30-3 minutes slower than the winner on the full course
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Re:

14 Oct 2018 19:33

roundabout wrote:just for fun and very back of the envelope, but under certain assumptions, Evenepoel would have been about 2:30-3 minutes slower than the winner on the full course

Can't really say. He was one second faster than Latour at the intermediate and Latour finished 6th at 2m16s. It depends on how the riders managed their efforts and how the track would favor unrestricted gears (which part of the track). I didn't see the profile of the race, so if there is more descending in a certain part, it would definitely impact the outcome. Going by the length of the course and the times at the WC, i think he'd be roughly 1m45 to 2m down from Bjergs time.

By the way, this was Jérémy Roy and Sylvain Chavanel's last race!
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Re: Re:

15 Oct 2018 08:46

You obviously can't compare his time at the first joint checkpoint to Latour's, as that course was almost 20 kms longer. The pros had to measure their efforts way more. No way Evenepoel would have been close to Latour's time on the full course, let alone beat it. Come on. He would have been clobbered by the pros and Jorgensen, in their respective races.

He mostly rode on the same roads as the pros and espoirs, too.

I'm not saying that he can't do better than this. Not at all. I think it's safe to say that he was nowhere near his Worlds form.



DNP-Old wrote:Like I said, it says absolutely nothing, but I think it's fun to compare. Notable intermediates at P1 of Chrono des Nations:
TOFT MADSEN Martin: 13'25"21 (Pro)
BJERG Mikkel: 13'26"97 (Pro)
JORGENSEN Mathias Norsgaard: 13'27"27 (U23)
ROSSETTO Stephane: 13'50"60 (Pro)
EVENEPOEL Remco: 13'57"65 (MJ)
LATOUR Pierre: 13'58"31 (Pro)
BRUNEL Alexys (U23)
LE BON Johan: 14'04"59 (Pro)
CASSAERT Loran: 14'05"81 (U23)
ROY Jérémy: 14'05"92 (Pro)
NIBALI Vincenzo: 14'08"80 (Pro)



Better to go by his km/h average, which was only 48.384. Nibali had a higher average, for example. I doubt Evenepoel could have matched that yesterday, at that distance.
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Re: Re:

15 Oct 2018 14:54

18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:You obviously can't compare his time at the first joint checkpoint to Latour's, as that course was almost 20 kms longer. The pros had to measure their efforts way more. No way Evenepoel would have been close to Latour's time on the full course, let alone beat it. Come on. He would have been clobbered by the pros and Jorgensen, in their respective races.

He mostly rode on the same roads as the pros and espoirs, too.

I'm not saying that he can't do better than this. Not at all. I think it's safe to say that he was nowhere near his Worlds form.



DNP-Old wrote:Like I said, it says absolutely nothing, but I think it's fun to compare. Notable intermediates at P1 of Chrono des Nations:
TOFT MADSEN Martin: 13'25"21 (Pro)
BJERG Mikkel: 13'26"97 (Pro)
JORGENSEN Mathias Norsgaard: 13'27"27 (U23)
ROSSETTO Stephane: 13'50"60 (Pro)
EVENEPOEL Remco: 13'57"65 (MJ)
LATOUR Pierre: 13'58"31 (Pro)
BRUNEL Alexys (U23)
LE BON Johan: 14'04"59 (Pro)
CASSAERT Loran: 14'05"81 (U23)
ROY Jérémy: 14'05"92 (Pro)
NIBALI Vincenzo: 14'08"80 (Pro)



Better to go by his km/h average, which was only 48.384. Nibali had a higher average, for example. I doubt Evenepoel could have matched that yesterday, at that distance.


Well, we agree that there is no way to compare. Like i said, without a profile of the race, you also can not compare km/h like you suggest either. On restricted gears, he is at a disadvantage on flat and downhill. If the course started with more of those sections than in the second half of the (pro) course, or the other way around, it would also skew this comparison. We'll just have to wait a few months to see how he compares to the pros.
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17 Oct 2018 15:13

I would totally send him as a leader to Tour Down Under already :D

Stages are short enough for him to handle. Pace is usually pretty chilled. Perfect race to start winning at pro level
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Re:

17 Oct 2018 16:48

MuskyOurSaviour wrote:I would totally send him as a leader to Tour Down Under already :D

Stages are short enough for him to handle. Pace is usually pretty chilled. Perfect race to start winning at pro level

He'll be riding in Argentina (Vuelta a San Juan) starting jan 20th. Obviously he can't ride both at the same time.
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Re: Re:

17 Oct 2018 16:57

Logic-is-your-friend wrote:
MuskyOurSaviour wrote:I would totally send him as a leader to Tour Down Under already :D

Stages are short enough for him to handle. Pace is usually pretty chilled. Perfect race to start winning at pro level

He'll be riding in Argentina (Vuelta a San Juan) starting jan 20th. Obviously he can't ride both at the same time.

Don't underestimate him.
The sadness of the world has different ways of getting to people, but it seems to succeed almost every time
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Re: Re:

17 Oct 2018 23:17

Logic-is-your-friend wrote:
MuskyOurSaviour wrote:I would totally send him as a leader to Tour Down Under already :D

Stages are short enough for him to handle. Pace is usually pretty chilled. Perfect race to start winning at pro level

He'll be riding in Argentina (Vuelta a San Juan) starting jan 20th. Obviously he can't ride both at the same time.


oh yea, he said he could ride in Colombia too, during a interview with Bicigoga in the Worlds.
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Re: Re:

18 Oct 2018 15:34

tristecsinamigos wrote:
Logic-is-your-friend wrote:
MuskyOurSaviour wrote:I would totally send him as a leader to Tour Down Under already :D

Stages are short enough for him to handle. Pace is usually pretty chilled. Perfect race to start winning at pro level

He'll be riding in Argentina (Vuelta a San Juan) starting jan 20th. Obviously he can't ride both at the same time.


oh yea, he said he could ride in Colombia too, during a interview with Bicigoga in the Worlds.


That's the plan. First Argentina, then Colombia. There is two weeks in between. He will turn 19 during his first pro stage race.
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19 Oct 2018 01:51

Just found a blogpost from last month, by Hans Vandeweghe, a Belgian sportsjournalist who's usually insufferably arrogant, as he writes about sportsethics from atop the highest horse in the world. But anyway, here's his blog from the day after Remco became worldchampion ITT and the day before he became worldchampion on the road:

This is a googletranslated text (with some modifications to erase wacky sentences and keep the meaning clear), the original can be found here: https://hansvdw1.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/de-rek-op-remco.pdf


Remco's margin for progression


Nobody wants to be called the Cannibal of Schepdaal. Or the Hungry one from Tongeren or the Piston of Virton. Can the same be said about our brand new world champion time trial at the juniors, and if everything goes according to plan, on the road as well, that is not so certain. Remco Evenepoel (18) and entourage do little to keep a low profile. Why would they, if the closest attacker ends a minute and a half? A bit of euphoria is legitimate.

Remco Evenepoel is the third Cannibal in the rich history of Belgian cycling. Sven Nys, who never got further than the cyclocross and a ninth place at the Olympic Games on the mountain bike, once had the dubious honor to wear the same epithet as the GOAT (greatest of all time), but nobody who dared to call Nys the new Eddy Merckx.

We've seen enough so called new Merckxes in those forty years since Eddy stopped, but none that was called both the new Merckx and the Cannibal. Evenepoel is both and what follows, is an attempt to contextualize it all. Especially to warn the very poor Belgian cycling community, which has been begging for decades for such a super talent that does not end up in the gutter prematurely, to keep its feet on the ground.

Starting with Remco Evenepoel himself. It is incomprehensible that both the union and his upcoming team QuickStep did not first send that boy on a course (mediatraining is implied). A masterclass 'what do you think, but do not say,' came in handy. For example, you do not say: "I'm climbing 5 km per hour faster than the rest." If everyone rides 15 per hour, 5 per hour is a third faster. That seems slightly exaggerated and even if it is the truth, then you do not say that. There is a rule: what Eddy never said about himself (but Frans Verbeeck did say about Merckx), Remco from Schepdaal should not say either.

That people eat it up is understandable. And if he says so, it may also be written down as well. Very different story, of course, if the young man says verifiable things that are demonstrably wrong. For example, that Chris Froome and Tom Boonen would have the same maximum oxygen intake, 82 in particular. The last known data from Froome (tested in 2015 in the GlaxoSmithKline Human Performance Lab) gives 84.6. Boonen was in the neighborhood of the 80.

The watts per kilogram of body weight of the climbing Evenepoel were also in the newspaper. Evenepoel declares he can push 7 watts per kilo and there was then explained that the better Tour climbers push more than 7. There were once two who came out over seven: Marco Pantani and Lance Armstrong on l'Alpe d'Huez, when they were full of EPO. This year, Tom Dumoulin never ran above 5.7 watts and 6.3 is about the physiologically acceptable limit for climbs that last longer than 20 minutes.

Maybe this is where things don't add up and did he push 7 watts/kg for 2 minutes the Berendries. In that case he has a problem, because the shorter the climb, the higher the power. Forget that 7 watt, buy that boy a new power meter please. and send him on course (mediatraining). Make sure he keeps his mouth shut about it.

The fact that Evenepoel is the greatest talent in years that it has produced cycling, is clear and the special / frustrating / fun part is that cycling has not produced that talent at all. Once they have a super talent at the cycling federation, then, like the spearhead of the pros, Greg Van Avermaet, he comes out of football. That story is known: Evenepoel played with Anderlecht, PSV and also KV Mechelen, lost his place for a while and then went to race.

He has been doing that for a year and a half now and he wins everything. A great talent, yes. An exceptionally great talent, yes. A talent that has never been seen? That remains to be seen. Results achieved in the past are a boost, but no guarantee for the future. Evenepoel will become a professional at QuickStep next year and that is the worst thing that could happen to him. Not because of QuickStep, but because he'll turn pro at age eighteen, without having raced one race with the U23, he'll immediately get to ride with the big boys.

The plan was to first let him grow at Axel Merckx for a year and then transfer him, but Team Sky immediately wanted to give it a chance and under pressure from all the offers that came his way, Patrick Lefevere immediately gave him a contract.

His trainer has been Fred Vandervennet for years, a marathon runner who once trained his father and who also guided Remco Evenepoel in his conditional work as a footballer. Vandervennet was already known as a traininganimal as a runner and later developed as a trainer. As far as that aspect is concerned, they have it in order at the Evenepoels.

So the question is not whether he is well supervised and whether he is a talent, but how much progression margin he still has. In other words: how much longer before Remco Evenepoel reaches his ceiling?
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20 Oct 2018 11:28

That is what we call ‘open deuren intrappen’ in Dutch, or, literally translated, kicking in opened doors. Also, it contradicts itself. The writer asks what margin of progression there still is - clearly implying at least a little doubt on whether the hype is justified. But then he praises the family for having a training animal as his trainer, and it is exactly that argument that could be used against him. He has been training way more professional, as a footballer and cyclist, than most other kids his age.
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Re:

20 Oct 2018 12:30

Der Effe wrote:That is what we call ‘open deuren intrappen’ in Dutch, or, literally translated, kicking in opened doors. Also, it contradicts itself. The writer asks what margin of progression there still is - clearly implying at least a little doubt on whether the hype is justified. But then he praises the family for having a training animal as his trainer, and it is exactly that argument that could be used against him. He has been training way more professional, as a footballer and cyclist, than most other kids his age.

If you win everything you want to win, how you want to win, there is little doubt the hype is justified. That doesn't mean he will be able to grow into a worldbeater as a pro. But if Evenepoels results aren't worthy of the hype, than no junior in history will have been or will ever be worthy of the hype. So, to me, those are completely different things. For me the hype is justified, but this is no guarantee that he will be able to live up to expectations. That's an entirely different matter.

Regarding his training schedule, there is an interview about a dozen pages back, with his coach. He is very clear: yes Remco does train a lot, but his talent is that his body is able to cope with the workload and grow stronger. Other guys would not be able to endure it and grow weaker, overtrain etc... So it's not so much an issue of training a lot, but of being able to train a lot.
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Re:

20 Oct 2018 19:00

Der Effe wrote:That is what we call ‘open deuren intrappen’ in Dutch, or, literally translated, kicking in opened doors. Also, it contradicts itself. The writer asks what margin of progression there still is - clearly implying at least a little doubt on whether the hype is justified. But then he praises the family for having a training animal as his trainer, and it is exactly that argument that could be used against him. He has been training way more professional, as a footballer and cyclist, than most other kids his age.


“Kicking in open doors” - what a great saying, we should have that in English!
And I agree that the fact that he may already be training like a pro compared to other jrs. may be one thing that suggest a less lofty career trajectory. Who knows. But I think he should be cut some slack about what he’s said to the press because that’s the way high schoolers ( sorry about the American educational reference) talk about their athletic (and other) exploits. He’s certainly still a jr. in that regard.
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23 Oct 2018 11:01

This junior legend makes sure he wastes no time in his race to the top. Hope he sells adult sizes as well! https://www.rev1703.com/index.php

Edit: I have been told all profits go to a children’s hospital. The merch is freakin’ expensive, but a heartwarming gesture.
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26 Oct 2018 08:59

Image
https://twitter.com/EvenepoelRemco/status/1055428505977131009



Merckx on Evenepoel:

Analisten menen dat Remco Evenepoel de nieuwe Merckx wordt. Geloof jij dat ook?

(blaast) Hij is zeker een uitzonderlijk atleet. Maar hij maakt het zichzelf lastig. Hij zegt dat hij drie grote ronden zal winnen. Dat zal niet zo eenvoudig zijn, vrees ik. Ik vind dat stoute taal. Hij zou beter wat bescheiden zijn. Ik denk trouwens dat hij beter eerst een jaar belofte was geworden. Hij zal volgend jaar het verschil zien tussen de junioren en de profs.





Analysts believe that Remco Evenepoel will be the new Merckx. Do you believe that too?

Pfff. He is certainly an exceptional athlete. But he makes it difficult for himself. He says he will win the three grand tours. That will not be so easy, I fear. I find that bold language. He'd better be a bit modest. I think, by the way, that he'd better have become an espoir for a year. He will know the difference between the juniors and the pros next year.


http://www.dezondag.be/eddymerckx/
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Re: The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

26 Oct 2018 10:02

'He says he will win the three grand tours'
yep, how to wind Eddy up
I believe what he said was
'I want to win the three grand tours'
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Re: The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

26 Oct 2018 10:38

Tim Booth wrote:'He says he will win the three grand tours'
yep, how to wind Eddy up
I believe what he said was
'I want to win the three grand tours'

Media gonna media
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26 Oct 2018 14:10

Either Merckx is talking out of his ***, or the reporter is twisting words. Because all Evenepoel has ever said was, that his passion is riding the 3 grand tours, and it would be a dream come true if he could ever win one of them. Evenepoel's trainer said he is on his way to become "top 10 GT classification" material and that the rest all comes down to chance, how he will develop further and the competition. And even, that for a top 10 GT spot, there is a long way to go.

But it's clear that Merckx's tone has shifted considerably, since Evenepoel signed for Quickstep (where, ironically, Merckx is on the board of advisors) and not for Hagens Berman Axeon, where sonnyboy Axel is head honcho. First Evenepoel (according to Merckx) was the biggest Belgian cycling talent he had ever seen, even better than Merckx, and after he signed at QS, he was not that talented anymore and should be more modest (even if it meant putting words in Evenepoels mouth).
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Re:

26 Oct 2018 14:53

Logic-is-your-friend wrote:But it's clear that Merckx's tone has shifted considerably, since Evenepoel signed for Quickstep (where, ironically, Merckx is on the board of advisors) and not for Hagens Berman Axeon, where sonnyboy Axel is head honcho. First Evenepoel (according to Merckx) was the biggest Belgian cycling talent he had ever seen, even better than Merckx, and after he signed at QS, he was not that talented anymore and should be more modest (even if it meant putting words in Evenepoels mouth).
Well, yes, that seems to be what's going on here, but it's perfectly understandable, no?

Merckx obviously sides with his son Axel, who apparently was wronged by Remco Evenepoel (or, rather, by his father), it would appear.



Google translate

by Editors | September 29, 2018 08:19
Eddy Merckx also disappointed in Remco Evenepoel: "He could have called Axel"

Normally Remco Evenepoel came out next season for the American team of Axel Merckx (Axeon Hagens Berman), but it immediately becomes an adventure with the pros. Eddy Merckx does not know whether that is a sensible choice.

The 18-year old Evenepoel will therefore not join the promises and is immediately thrown at the pros for the lions. "I do not know if that was a better choice," says Merckx in Het Nieuwsblad. "That will have to be shown next year, but the difference with the pros is of course great, but he is also exceptionally good, everyone talks about a difference in resistance, but that will be fine."

However, the Cannibal is also somewhat disappointed in the Belgian prodigy. "The only thing that has disappointed me a bit: Evenepoel did not call Axel to say that he would not come", it sounds. "That would have been polite."

"While Axel has made him the first material available, he still has to give him back a bicycle, which is a very big champion," Merckx concludes.

https://www.wielerkrant.be/nl/nieuws/lees/2018-09-29/eddy-merckx-ook-wel-teleurgesteld-in-remco-evenepoel-hij-had-axel-wel-mogen-bellen
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