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2018 Giro d'Italia - STAGE 10: Penne – Gualdo Tadino 239 km

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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 17:26

Angliru wrote:
The Chicken wrote:I'm actually pleased Chavez has been dropped hard. It's a kind of justice what with him costing Yates so much time on Etna.


Now we see the motivation behind your ridiculous posts. Yates made the decision on his own and IMO it was the correct one.


Which decision? You've lost me. :confused:
The Chicken
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Re:

15 May 2018 17:28

The Chicken wrote:Eh??

You can argue that Chaves costed SY to lose some time on Etna. That is fine with me and a lot of posters. Whether we agree or not with you is another matter. But wishing bad luck to somebody is something that is not well celebrated here.
Just an opinion.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 17:31

Escarabajo wrote:
The Chicken wrote:Eh??

You can argue that Chaves costed SY to lose some time on Etna. That is fine with me and a lot of posters. Whether we agree or not with you is another matter. But wishing bad luck to somebody is something that is not well celebrated here.
Just an opinion.


If you could provide evidence for me wishing bad luck to somebody that would be helpful.
The Chicken
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 17:47

DNP-Old wrote:
Breh wrote:Hansen has proven his worth. He's way more than "just a gimmick".

He has proven his worth how exactly?

Attacking and always being one of the last three guys of his team. Setting up Wellens for a stagewin along with Tosh.

By the way, Meintjens has been awfull this giro. What's up with him?
Breh
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 18:13

The Chicken wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:
The Chicken wrote:Eh??

You can argue that Chaves costed SY to lose some time on Etna. That is fine with me and a lot of posters. Whether we agree or not with you is another matter. But wishing bad luck to somebody is something that is not well celebrated here.
Just an opinion.


If you could provide evidence for me wishing bad luck to somebody that would be helpful.

Well, it sounded like it in the expression above.

The thing with Chaves is probably that he is well liked. If it was another rider it probably would have had different reception. Maybe double standards I know.

I am just telling you how I saw it. Do not want to have arguments with anyone here. :)
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15 May 2018 18:16

Nice stage, gonna watch the finale when Im home. Great to see Mohoric got the win, thats a nice stage winner. Sad for Chaves, but it is what is it. Thats GTs for you. Although it provided us with a great stage, its not great for the race to have him completely blown out of the race like this. Would have liked to see this double pronged attack in the real mountains.

Break tomorrow and Lopez to lose around 30 seconds to the best of the favourites.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 18:35

Escarabajo wrote:
The Chicken wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:
The Chicken wrote:Eh??

You can argue that Chaves costed SY to lose some time on Etna. That is fine with me and a lot of posters. Whether we agree or not with you is another matter. But wishing bad luck to somebody is something that is not well celebrated here.
Just an opinion.


If you could provide evidence for me wishing bad luck to somebody that would be helpful.

Well, it sounded like it in the expression above.

The thing with Chaves is probably that he is well liked. If it was another rider it probably would have had different reception. Maybe double standards I know.

I am just telling you how I saw it. Do not want to have arguments with anyone here. :)


Me neither. :)
The Chicken
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 19:00

The Chicken wrote:
Angliru wrote:
The Chicken wrote:I'm actually pleased Chavez has been dropped hard. It's a kind of justice what with him costing Yates so much time on Etna.


Now we see the motivation behind your ridiculous posts. Yates made the decision on his own and IMO it was the correct one.


Which decision? You've lost me. :confused:


Yates giving the stage to Chaves and thus the bonus seconds, that was his choice. With the team giving dual leadership to Yates and Chaves, I'm sure that means giving them both some degree of freedom to ride their own races and to make some decisions on their own. I don't know what inside track you have on the day-to-day strategy for this team but for you to blame Chaves for what time Yates could've gained but didn't is puzzling. As I posted somewhere else the outcome on Etna was a win-win for Mitchellton-Scott. Both of their leaders put time into their rivals, they won the stage and took over the race lead all in one fell swoop. If Yates is as strong as many believe then maybe he will continue to gain time on his rivals as there is ample opportunities to for him to do so. I just detect a bit of personal resentment for Chaves from you and your doppelganger Waterloo Sunrise.

Edit: Did some editorial cleanup of grammatical errors.
User avatar Angliru
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 19:48

Angliru wrote:
The Chicken wrote:
Angliru wrote:
The Chicken wrote:I'm actually pleased Chavez has been dropped hard. It's a kind of justice what with him costing Yates so much time on Etna.


Now we see the motivation behind your ridiculous posts. Yates made the decision on his own and IMO it was the correct one.


Which decision? You've lost me. :confused:


Yates giving the stage to Chaves and thus the bonus seconds, that was his choice. With the team giving dual leadership to Yates and Chaves, I'm sure that means giving them both some degree of freedom to ride their own races and to make some decisions on their own. I don't know what inside track you have on the day-to-day strategy for this team but for you to blame Chaves for what time Yates could've gained but didn't is puzzling. As I posted somewhere else the outcome on Etna was a win-win for Mitchellton-Scott. Both of their leaders put time into their rivals, they won the stage and took over the race lead all in one fell swoop. If Yates is as strong as many believe then maybe he will continue to gain time on his rivals as there is ample opportunities to for him to do so. I just detect a bit of personal resentment for Chaves from you and your doppelganger Waterloo Sunrise.

Edit: Did some editorial cleanup of grammatical errors.


Yes, I am well aware it was Yates' choice to gift the stage/bonus seconds to Chaves and I am ofc well aware that that is the done thing in that situation in cycling. My point, however, was the fact that Chaves being up the road/in the break (off script!!) meant that Yates had to soft pedal most of Etna when he was clearly itching to attack and clearly had monster form to potentially gain big time on his rivals.

It is for this reason that I think the MS team and Matt White were not as thrilled as they made out they were post Etna stage (interestingly there was none of the usual in-car footage of them wooping/cheering on their BSP YouTube channel, likely because there wasn't much as they realised Chaves cost Yates time and perhaps even the race). The outcome was definitely not a win-win for the team. MS are here to win this race with their best chance, which is Yates, as Chaves was always going to get hammered in the TT (Yates less so).

There is no guarantee that Yates will have his Etna form for the remaining mountain stages so you can't just assume he'll gain time. Etna was a missed opportunity for him and the team. Time will tell if it costs them the race. If it does, it's Chaves's fault. Serious question: is Chaves out of contract this year?
The Chicken
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Re: Re:

15 May 2018 19:58

The Chicken wrote:
Angliru wrote:
The Chicken wrote:
Angliru wrote:
The Chicken wrote:I'm actually pleased Chavez has been dropped hard. It's a kind of justice what with him costing Yates so much time on Etna.


Now we see the motivation behind your ridiculous posts. Yates made the decision on his own and IMO it was the correct one.


Which decision? You've lost me. :confused:


Yates giving the stage to Chaves and thus the bonus seconds, that was his choice. With the team giving dual leadership to Yates and Chaves, I'm sure that means giving them both some degree of freedom to ride their own races and to make some decisions on their own. I don't know what inside track you have on the day-to-day strategy for this team but for you to blame Chaves for what time Yates could've gained but didn't is puzzling. As I posted somewhere else the outcome on Etna was a win-win for Mitchellton-Scott. Both of their leaders put time into their rivals, they won the stage and took over the race lead all in one fell swoop. If Yates is as strong as many believe then maybe he will continue to gain time on his rivals as there is ample opportunities to for him to do so. I just detect a bit of personal resentment for Chaves from you and your doppelganger Waterloo Sunrise.

Edit: Did some editorial cleanup of grammatical errors.


Yes, I am well aware it was Yates' choice to gift the stage/bonus seconds to Chaves and I am ofc well aware that that is the done thing in that situation in cycling. My point, however, was the fact that Chaves being up the road/in the break (off script!!) meant that Yates had to soft pedal most of Etna when he was clearly itching to attack and clearly had monster form to potentially gain big time on his rivals.

It is for this reason that I think the MS team and Matt White were not as thrilled as they made out they were post Etna stage (interestingly there was none of the usual in-car footage of them wooping/cheering on their BSP YouTube channel, likely because there wasn't much as they realised Chaves cost Yates time and perhaps even the race). The outcome was definitely not a win-win for the team. MS are here to win this race with their best chance, which is Yates, as Chaves was always going to get hammered in the TT (Yates less so).

There is no guarantee that Yates will have his Etna form for the remaining mountain stages so you can't just assume he'll gain time. Etna was a missed opportunity for him and the team. Time will tell if it costs them the race. If it does, it's Chaves's fault. Serious question: is Chaves out of contract this year?


Yates attack was also off script. Also where’s your proof that Yates would have gained more time then he did on Etna. He couldn’t attack very early on stage 9.
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User avatar Jspear
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15 May 2018 20:24

Stage 9 final climb was different and not suitable for earlier attack - more exposed, higher altitude, I think not as steep, and more fatigue in the legs.
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15 May 2018 20:36

At the end of the day you don't know what would have happened if Chaves hadn't been in that break on the Etna stage, all you have is guesses.
Yates might have attacked earlier, and gained more time, or he might not.
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re: 2018 Giro d'Italia - STAGE 10: Penne – Gualdo Tadino 239

15 May 2018 20:44

This is a the stage 10 thread but you folks embroiled in this Yates-Chaves argument have tak it over during and now again after the race. Take it somewhere else during future stages please!
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15 May 2018 20:53

Well, this discussion started because of events in this very stage. It started because Chaves lost his legs during the stage and lost a whole bunch of time.
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re: 2018 Giro d'Italia - STAGE 10: Penne – Gualdo Tadino 239

15 May 2018 21:28

This stage might not have been among the best stages in recent gt history but I think it showed perfectly what makes stage racing so special. It perfectly showcased the combination of the narratives of the general classification and the battle for the stage win and how they interfere with each other, the battle between attackers and sprinters, how unpredictable stage races are, that everything can happen to anyone at any time, that it's not just about who is the strongest climber, but also about who has the engine for the flat, who can descend well and who has the right team. It showcased the complicated tactics in grand tours, where everyone wants to achieve different things so one team can be an ally and the other one a rival although both of their goals have nothing to do with yours. It feels like this one stage had pretty much everything a gt stage could possibly offer except the one thing which many people see as the only thing a gt stage should offer, a battle between gc contenders. We really see stages like todays way too rarely.
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Re: 2018 Giro d'Italia - STAGE 10: Penne – Gualdo Tadino 239

15 May 2018 21:36

Chapeau Mohoric! A long, tough day for all - we'll Yates has a climbing dom now - "another" GC guy seemed poised to experience Chaves fate, but he seems full of pep now.

GT stage race that showed why they're so fun to watch.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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Re: 2018 Giro d'Italia - STAGE 10: Penne – Gualdo Tadino 239

16 May 2018 10:51

Gigs_98 wrote:This stage might not have been among the best stages in recent gt history but I think it showed perfectly what makes stage racing so special. It perfectly showcased the combination of the narratives of the general classification and the battle for the stage win and how they interfere with each other, the battle between attackers and sprinters, how unpredictable stage races are, that everything can happen to anyone at any time, that it's not just about who is the strongest climber, but also about who has the engine for the flat, who can descend well and who has the right team. It showcased the complicated tactics in grand tours, where everyone wants to achieve different things so one team can be an ally and the other one a rival although both of their goals have nothing to do with yours. It feels like this one stage had pretty much everything a gt stage could possibly offer except the one thing which many people see as the only thing a gt stage should offer, a battle between gc contenders. We really see stages like todays way too rarely.


It just showed how hard it is to hold together a performance consistently for three weeks and why GT racing is the best to watch even if there are periods of slumber sometimes. Races going on inside the race.........
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