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Giro 2019 Route Rumours

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29 May 2018 16:17

Sampeyre is another of the "dangerous" descents that we won't see with Vegni, and if I recall correctly I've read on the Italian forum that there are also road problems.

Anyway, I'm fully for a #BringBackZomegnan
Nirvana
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Re:

29 May 2018 16:20

Nirvana wrote:Sampeyre is another of the "dangerous" descents that we won't see with Vegni, and if I recall correctly I've read on the Italian forum that there are also road problems.

Anyway, I'm fully for a #BringBackZomegnan


So another Fauniera-Sampeyre stage seems pretty unlikely......

Still, there are enough good climbs in Italy. If Vegni just stopping doing these "Unipublic stages", that would be an improvement.
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 16:41

OlavEH wrote:
Nirvana wrote:Sampeyre is another of the "dangerous" descents that we won't see with Vegni, and if I recall correctly I've read on the Italian forum that there are also road problems.

Anyway, I'm fully for a #BringBackZomegnan


So another Fauniera-Sampeyre stage seems pretty unlikely......

Still, there are enough good climbs in Italy. If Vegni just stopping doing these "Unipublic stages", that would be an improvement.

Indeed. Passo Pennes, Passo di Monte Giovo, Alpe di Rodengo and Passo delle Erbe in South Tyrol and Bondone, Passo Santa Barbara and Passo Coe in Trentino would be great to see in the next years.
Riposa in pace, Michele!
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 17:22

OlavEH wrote:Okay. How does this actually work? Do towns/regions have a saying in which passes/climbs that are to be used? Save for MTFs of course. Could for example Trento pay for a stage finish and then be a part of deciding where the route is placed by saying that they do/don't want a downhill finish from Bondone? Or some similar situation.

It can be part of the deal, if they are particularly interested. But in that case, they obviously have to pay for the necessary roadworks. As someone said, there aren't wealthy ski stations in the area and all the big towns seem content with letting the race pass through elsewhere. Of course the fact that Vegni thinks the descent is too dangerous is another (more recent) issue, but I'm sure he would not turn down an offer just because of it, if the money was right...
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 17:27

Eshnar wrote:
OlavEH wrote:Okay. How does this actually work? Do towns/regions have a saying in which passes/climbs that are to be used? Save for MTFs of course. Could for example Trento pay for a stage finish and then be a part of deciding where the route is placed by saying that they do/don't want a downhill finish from Bondone? Or some similar situation.

It can be part of the deal, if they are particularly interested. But in that case, they obviously have to pay for the necessary roadworks. As someone said, there aren't wealthy ski stations in the area and all the big towns seem content with letting the race pass through elsewhere. Of course the fact that Vegni thinks the descent is too dangerous is another (more recent) issue, but I'm sure he would not turn down an offer just because of it, if the money was right...

The thing is that the Passo Daone descent that they used in 2015 on the Madonna di Campiglio stage is probably more dangerous than both the Fauniera and the Sampeyre descent.
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29 May 2018 17:34

Stelvio used to be this rare, mythical beast, now its legacy is becoming watered down by repetition, like Mont Ventoux. It's still always going to be an iconic summit, but it's starting to lose that additional X factor that raised it above the likes of Lagos de Covadonga and Alpe d'Huez because of its rarity. Now we'll have had it in 2012, 2014, 2017 and 2019, with 2013 attempted too, and the women there in 2010 also. Should finish on Bormio 2000 or Torre di Fraele or something if they aren't doing the Livigno finish from 2005.

Now, we haven't seen the Fedaia since 2011, just saying.
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Re:

29 May 2018 17:47

Libertine Seguros wrote:Stelvio used to be this rare, mythical beast, now its legacy is becoming watered down by repetition, like Mont Ventoux. It's still always going to be an iconic summit, but it's starting to lose that additional X factor that raised it above the likes of Lagos de Covadonga and Alpe d'Huez because of its rarity. Now we'll have had it in 2012, 2014, 2017 and 2019, with 2013 attempted too, and the women there in 2010 also. Should finish on Bormio 2000 or Torre di Fraele or something if they aren't doing the Livigno finish from 2005.

Now, we haven't seen the Fedaia since 2011, just saying.

Yes, we also haven't seen Tre Cime since 2013 (and only 2 times since 1989!), but I totally understand why you want to have Fedaia once again.
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 18:42

Eshnar wrote:
OlavEH wrote:Okay. How does this actually work? Do towns/regions have a saying in which passes/climbs that are to be used? Save for MTFs of course. Could for example Trento pay for a stage finish and then be a part of deciding where the route is placed by saying that they do/don't want a downhill finish from Bondone? Or some similar situation.

It can be part of the deal, if they are particularly interested. But in that case, they obviously have to pay for the necessary roadworks. As someone said, there aren't wealthy ski stations in the area and all the big towns seem content with letting the race pass through elsewhere. Of course the fact that Vegni thinks the descent is too dangerous is another (more recent) issue, but I'm sure he would not turn down an offer just because of it, if the money was right...

I think that his fixation with riders security will win even against his "I'll design the Giro looking at who put more money" logic, just look at the ridiculous moto with red flag and whistle put in front of the group even when they go through a small town with narrow streets because he thinks that they should be cautious.
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 18:53

Mayomaniac wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:Stelvio used to be this rare, mythical beast, now its legacy is becoming watered down by repetition, like Mont Ventoux. It's still always going to be an iconic summit, but it's starting to lose that additional X factor that raised it above the likes of Lagos de Covadonga and Alpe d'Huez because of its rarity. Now we'll have had it in 2012, 2014, 2017 and 2019, with 2013 attempted too, and the women there in 2010 also. Should finish on Bormio 2000 or Torre di Fraele or something if they aren't doing the Livigno finish from 2005.

Now, we haven't seen the Fedaia since 2011, just saying.

Yes, we also haven't seen Tre Cime since 2013 (and only 2 times since 1989!), but I totally understand why you want to have Fedaia once again.

Fedaia is the craziest cause they passed by there in 2012, 2013, 2016 and 2017.

Anyway, for some reason people always want their roller coaster stage there, but if I'd be pretty happy with just Valparola+Giau+Fedaia or something.
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Re:

29 May 2018 19:16

Libertine Seguros wrote:Stelvio used to be this rare, mythical beast, now its legacy is becoming watered down by repetition, like Mont Ventoux. It's still always going to be an iconic summit, but it's starting to lose that additional X factor that raised it above the likes of Lagos de Covadonga and Alpe d'Huez because of its rarity. Now we'll have had it in 2012, 2014, 2017 and 2019, with 2013 attempted too, and the women there in 2010 also. Should finish on Bormio 2000 or Torre di Fraele or something if they aren't doing the Livigno finish from 2005.

Now, we haven't seen the Fedaia since 2011, just saying.

Maybe they want to make Fedaia this rare mythical beast :D
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 19:19

Gigs_98 wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:Stelvio used to be this rare, mythical beast, now its legacy is becoming watered down by repetition, like Mont Ventoux. It's still always going to be an iconic summit, but it's starting to lose that additional X factor that raised it above the likes of Lagos de Covadonga and Alpe d'Huez because of its rarity. Now we'll have had it in 2012, 2014, 2017 and 2019, with 2013 attempted too, and the women there in 2010 also. Should finish on Bormio 2000 or Torre di Fraele or something if they aren't doing the Livigno finish from 2005.

Now, we haven't seen the Fedaia since 2011, just saying.

Maybe they want to make Fedaia this rare mythical beast :D

Yeah, you can't have it both ways, Libertine.
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 19:59

Red Rick wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:Stelvio used to be this rare, mythical beast, now its legacy is becoming watered down by repetition, like Mont Ventoux. It's still always going to be an iconic summit, but it's starting to lose that additional X factor that raised it above the likes of Lagos de Covadonga and Alpe d'Huez because of its rarity. Now we'll have had it in 2012, 2014, 2017 and 2019, with 2013 attempted too, and the women there in 2010 also. Should finish on Bormio 2000 or Torre di Fraele or something if they aren't doing the Livigno finish from 2005.

Now, we haven't seen the Fedaia since 2011, just saying.

Yes, we also haven't seen Tre Cime since 2013 (and only 2 times since 1989!), but I totally understand why you want to have Fedaia once again.

Fedaia is the craziest cause they passed by there in 2012, 2013, 2016 and 2017.

Anyway, for some reason people always want their roller coaster stage there, but if I'd be pretty happy with just Valparola+Giau+Fedaia or something.

Especially last year was so stupid. Instead of a beauty with Fedaia (45km to go) and Sella (21km to go) as the last climbs, they chose to have a dolomite stage with only soft climbs that were badly linked. Ugh.
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 20:00

Netserk wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:Stelvio used to be this rare, mythical beast, now its legacy is becoming watered down by repetition, like Mont Ventoux. It's still always going to be an iconic summit, but it's starting to lose that additional X factor that raised it above the likes of Lagos de Covadonga and Alpe d'Huez because of its rarity. Now we'll have had it in 2012, 2014, 2017 and 2019, with 2013 attempted too, and the women there in 2010 also. Should finish on Bormio 2000 or Torre di Fraele or something if they aren't doing the Livigno finish from 2005.

Now, we haven't seen the Fedaia since 2011, just saying.

Yes, we also haven't seen Tre Cime since 2013 (and only 2 times since 1989!), but I totally understand why you want to have Fedaia once again.

Fedaia is the craziest cause they passed by there in 2012, 2013, 2016 and 2017.

Anyway, for some reason people always want their roller coaster stage there, but if I'd be pretty happy with just Valparola+Giau+Fedaia or something.

Especially last year was so stupid. Instead of a beauty with Fedaia (45km to go) and Sella (21km to go) as the last climbs, they chose to have a dolomite stage with only soft climbs that were badly linked. Ugh.

Yeah, that was really bad.
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 22:17

Valv.Piti wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:Stelvio used to be this rare, mythical beast, now its legacy is becoming watered down by repetition, like Mont Ventoux. It's still always going to be an iconic summit, but it's starting to lose that additional X factor that raised it above the likes of Lagos de Covadonga and Alpe d'Huez because of its rarity. Now we'll have had it in 2012, 2014, 2017 and 2019, with 2013 attempted too, and the women there in 2010 also. Should finish on Bormio 2000 or Torre di Fraele or something if they aren't doing the Livigno finish from 2005.

Now, we haven't seen the Fedaia since 2011, just saying.

Maybe they want to make Fedaia this rare mythical beast :D

Yeah, you can't have it both ways, Libertine.

Well, there are some climbs you can't overuse.

I just want a Fedaia MTT. Is that so much to ask?
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Re: Giro 2019 Route Rumours

03 Jun 2018 09:53

I am very excited about this rumor-thread and the rumors as well :)

Eastern Alps:
A stage to Tre Cime would be scenic and beautiful.
Concerning the fact that Lienz want a stage-finish I have one question. Is it poosible to finish with a descent from Grossglockner?

"Middle Alps":
To hear that both Stelvio and Mortirolo could be in is amazing. I prefer them spread out on two different stages though.

Western Alps:
Fraiteve (Col Basset) - Yes!
Oropa? Lets just say that I wouldn't mind if Oropa became a rare "mythical" uphill sprint.

Appennines:
L'Aquila - If it is anything like in 2010 it certainly won't be selective. Looking forward to other news concerning this region.
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03 Jun 2018 10:14

I would expect Stelvio and Mortirolo would need to be in separate stages because Stelvio would by demand need to be the Cima Coppi, so it would be strange to have that over 100km out as there's a fair way from there to Mazzo and then you'd have to finish on Aprica realistically. It's not out of the question of course, if it's right near the end of the race, like in 2008 (but hopefully without the descent to Tirano unless they're unearthing Monte Padrio). Descending the Großglockner would require them to have been some significant way north into Austria to justify it, and the descent would still be very, very long because they'd have to go through Paß Iselsberg too.

Now, there are a few absolute brutes (10%+ averages) all around Lienz, but all of them are dead ends. The other option would be to approach via Pustertaler Höhenstraße but that would be its easy side. As for Oropa, if they descended to the finish it would be great but I assume Biella is paying so we get the same old same old. I'm so over Oropa now. It's not that good a climb and if Pantani hadn't gone ballistic nobody would care. MTT or nothing.
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Re: Giro 2019 Route Rumours

03 Jun 2018 10:31

A stage to Lienz with the großglockner would fit quite well as a stage 15 after a hard Tre cime mtf. You could start somewhere close to Austria like Innichen than ride through the Pustertal to Lienz followed by a gigantic lap over the Felbeetauern Pass, the Großglockner and the Iselsberg, before returning to Lienz. That really would only work with a rest day the following day as the Großglockner would be quite far away from the finish and there is an almost 20 km long false flat descending section between the end of the Großglockner descent and the start of the Iselsberg climb. I still think it could be quite interesting that way as the Großglockner simply is an absolute brute. That said, I write this out of the perspective of an Austrian so of course I want a stage to Austria. If I was from another country I wouldn't exactly be hyped about a stage to Lienz
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03 Jun 2018 11:35

There are rumours about a stage involving the Passo San Marco. If that's the case, it seems clear that they'll approach Valtellina from the west, which means Stelvio - Mortirolo is rather unlikely. More likely would be Mortirolo - Stelvio. Anyway, while it seems Mortirolo is very likely to be in the route, the Stelvio is much less likely afaik.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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03 Jun 2018 13:29

Wouldn't it be possible to use Passo San Marco as a way out of Valtellina coming from the area around Tirano?
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Re:

03 Jun 2018 13:51

ice&fire wrote:Wouldn't it be possible to use Passo San Marco as a way out of Valtellina coming from the area around Tirano?

well, yes. But where to go from there?
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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