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Ivan Sosa discussion thread

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Re:

09 Oct 2018 10:40

PeterB wrote:Technically, Sosa is currently still under contract with Androni, so it should be Savio who will have final say.
As I understand it, changing teams this year without Savio's consent was possible only if new team paid 120k to Savio before 31 July. The only team that did that was Trek. So Sosa can either accept Trek's offer, or has to seek additional Savio's consent with Sky. And I can imagine Savio will have no problem with Sky if they compensate him for all money due back to Trek plus some extra for the trouble and potential damages if claimed by Trek. If Savio says he will honor only Trek offer, Sosa has no way of going to Sky this year


Savio should be smart and demand a lot of money. He can make a real good deal out of it, depending on how much Sky wants Sosa. Although another year at Androni may give this guy the much needed perspective to find out what he wants to do with his carreer, because he doesn't seem to know right now.

(unless he goes the WvA way).


:lol:
Narce_
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Re: Re:

09 Oct 2018 11:34

Logic-is-your-friend wrote:
samhocking wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:
rick james wrote:
Logic-is-your-friend wrote:Time to introduce financial fair play in cycling.

why is that?

I won't pretend for even a second that the fact it's Sky doesn't play a part in people's negative response to this saga, but in return please don't pretend that a team with sufficient budget and clout that the team with the second biggest budget in cycling abandons its U23 development project because it can't stop its riders being stolen isn't a marketplace killer.

Cycling got by, you could argue rather archaically, for many years without football-style tapping up, contract buyouts and so on. Sky's contract wranglings and buyouts with Wiggins and Swift were one element of the end of that, GreenEdge were another with their tapping people up all the way from January. It might well be how it's done in football and not especially wrong per se, but there are quite a few marketplace killers in football too - Paris Saint-Germain, Bayern München, Manchester City, Real Madrid for a few, and their way of going about business is plenty unpopular among large sections of the fanbase too. While it's disappointing to see a single overpowered team buying up quality young talents like Bernal, or skimming off the cream of the U23 ranks like they did with the likes of Moscon and Sivakov, the way they - and the rider's advisors and agents, who are far more culpable than Sky for this saga - have gone about this Sosa transfer is another level of problematic from a competition point of view; if the richest teams are now at the stage where they can dangle carrots and pressure riders to break contracts or play up until they're allowed to leave (Dimitri Payet ring any bells?), and can afford to simply pay off any fine that comes for breaking those contracts as collateral for the purchase, then we are reaching the point that was why football needed the financial fair play regulations in the first place.

If Sosa had signed for Sky without the Trek diversion, then there'd still have been something of a negative response, sure, but it would have been the same as with the signings of Bernal, Sivakov and so on; a frustration that Sky are stockpiling all of the best young riders when fans would rather see them fighting against the seemingly unbeatable Sky machine rather than joining it, but not the feeling that there's anything wrong per se in how it's come about. The situation here with Trek and the UCI getting involved in arbitration and then ultimately being ignored or treated as irrelevant anyway because Sky can pay away any fine on the rider's behalf, however, has justifiably generated a more negative reaction because its implications are greater, and it reinforces the image many have of Sky as the big overpowered, amoral corporate bully, the Gordon Gekko of the pro péloton.


All reasonable, but lets not kid ourselves, UCI getting involved is precisely because Trek never actually got Sosa's signature at the time, within the time they needed to get it. While no doubt, more money can change a man's mind what company he ends up working for, it can't un-sign a contract that should have been signed in the first place.

An verbal agreement is legally binding, at least in most countries i think. Sosa basically validates it himself by posting a video online where he states he's going to TREK.

However the cookie crumbles, it could become a dangerous presedent.

As for the financial fair play, cycling isn't football, but it's clear people need to start thinking about where this is going. There will come a time where the dominance of one team will become counter productive for that team itself. Sky is burning money in order to create a monopoly on future GT riders. If they succeed, the interest in cycling will once again plummet and they will have spent hundreds of millions on a sport that gives them exponentially less exposure (because people will lose interest in it). In other words, there will come a time where the more money they put into it, the less it will be worth.


Not sure about that, anyway in the UK with certain agreements the consumer has a 14 day cooling off period, not sure how this translates to this sort of contract but there must be some protection for employee (Sosa's) rights

That should be looked at independently of the teams involved.
del1962
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09 Oct 2018 15:39

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savio-agrees-to-reimburse-trek-segafredo-with-sosa-closing-on-team-sky-deal/

Ivan will join Sky on a three year deal which is significantly higher than he would of earned at Trek.
Savio will refund Trek and get a bigger fee from Sky.
Trek get there money back and well and truly Acquadro'd.
MatParker117
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10 Oct 2018 03:47

I am leaving this bandwagon since I am not going to support someone who is unable to keep his word. Adieu.
User avatar lartiste
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10 Oct 2018 06:46

Yup. Will never root for this guy
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

I came, I saw, I was dead wrong as per usual
User avatar Red Rick
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Re:

10 Oct 2018 07:29

MatParker117 wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savio-agrees-to-reimburse-trek-segafredo-with-sosa-closing-on-team-sky-deal/

Ivan will join Sky on a three year deal which is significantly higher than he would of earned at Trek.
Savio will refund Trek and get a bigger fee from Sky.
Trek get there money back and well and truly Acquadro'd.

Money, money, money.
Sky, Sky, Sky.
User avatar Jagartrott
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10 Oct 2018 12:48

Sosa is off to a bad start.

If he doesn't perform at Sky, I find it very hard for him to strike a good contract afterwards.
Easy to imagine that every time Sosa tries to attack, or just lead, the full Trek squad will do a number.

The only positive for him is that they might help his TT, which is terrible
User avatar slosada
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10 Oct 2018 12:51

I don't blame a worker for seeking better conditions, I blame their employer for screwing over smaller business.
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10 Oct 2018 21:30

Most athletes these days won't turn down a bigger salary. I don't really blame them as their careers are over by mid thirties or earlier and not all of them have an alternate career or are well educated. The circumstances of the deal are the only real eyebrow raiser and it's not as if it hasn't happened before, often it ends up in court.
movingtarget
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10 Oct 2018 22:43

So Sky basically signs all the best U-23 riders, thank goodness they didnt get Remco otherwise it had been very grim.
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Re:

10 Oct 2018 23:36

Valv.Piti wrote:So Sky basically signs all the best U-23 riders, thank goodness they didnt get Remco otherwise it had been very grim.


What's to stop them from recruiting Remco too with visions of big money, strong support and world adulation?
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Re: Re:

10 Oct 2018 23:50

Angliru wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:So Sky basically signs all the best U-23 riders, thank goodness they didnt get Remco otherwise it had been very grim.


What's to stop them from recruiting Remco too with visions of big money, strong support and world adulation?


Quick Step got him to sign a piece of paper.
MatParker117
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Re:

11 Oct 2018 02:46

Valv.Piti wrote:So Sky basically signs all the best U-23 riders, thank goodness they didnt get Remco otherwise it had been very grim.

Meh, Remco will fade into obscurity anyway, so they can have him. I heard it from a forum member who apparently knows a thing or two about a thing or two.
User avatar Logic-is-your-friend
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Re: Re:

11 Oct 2018 23:49

Angliru wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:So Sky basically signs all the best U-23 riders, thank goodness they didnt get Remco otherwise it had been very grim.


What's to stop them from recruiting Remco too with visions of big money, strong support and world adulation?


Looks like they will have to wait a few years now.
movingtarget
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Re: Re:

12 Oct 2018 00:17

MatParker117 wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:So Sky basically signs all the best U-23 riders, thank goodness they didnt get Remco otherwise it had been very grim.


What's to stop them from recruiting Remco too with visions of big money, strong support and world adulation?


Quick Step got him to sign a piece of paper.


That didn't stop Wiggins from jumping ship from Garmin to Sky, while still being under contract with Garmin for the 2010 season.
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Re: Re:

12 Oct 2018 06:48

Angliru wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:So Sky basically signs all the best U-23 riders, thank goodness they didnt get Remco otherwise it had been very grim.


What's to stop them from recruiting Remco too with visions of big money, strong support and world adulation?


Quick Step got him to sign a piece of paper.


That didn't stop Wiggins from jumping ship from Garmin to Sky, while still being under contract with Garmin for the 2010 season.


Nor did it stop Sosa to move from Androni to Sky.
janraaskalt
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Re: Re:

12 Oct 2018 09:04

Angliru wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:So Sky basically signs all the best U-23 riders, thank goodness they didnt get Remco otherwise it had been very grim.


What's to stop them from recruiting Remco too with visions of big money, strong support and world adulation?


Quick Step got him to sign a piece of paper.


That didn't stop Wiggins from jumping ship from Garmin to Sky, while still being under contract with Garmin for the 2010 season.


Sky payed a huge release fee.
MatParker117
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Re: Re:

12 Oct 2018 11:58

MatParker117 wrote:
Angliru wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:So Sky basically signs all the best U-23 riders, thank goodness they didnt get Remco otherwise it had been very grim.


What's to stop them from recruiting Remco too with visions of big money, strong support and world adulation?


Quick Step got him to sign a piece of paper.


That didn't stop Wiggins from jumping ship from Garmin to Sky, while still being under contract with Garmin for the 2010 season.


Sky payed a huge release fee.


That is my point.
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Re:

12 Oct 2018 14:01

movingtarget wrote:Most athletes these days won't turn down a bigger salary. I don't really blame them as their careers are over by mid thirties or earlier and not all of them have an alternate career or are well educated. The circumstances of the deal are the only real eyebrow raiser and it's not as if it hasn't happened before, often it ends up in court.


Agreed. I don't know his personal circumstances, but he hasn't had a chance yet to make much money cycling and has a limited amount of time to do, so I'm not going to criticize him much for this.
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Re: Ivan Sosa discussion thread

12 Oct 2018 14:20

This is the story of a guy who got a job offer from company A, and, as he was about to sign, got a better offer from company B.

But this is also the story of some other guys who think the first guy should have acted as THEY wanted, because they know better, so, because he didn´t, they disown him; just a question, are you going to support his family when he retires at 33?

May the man who hasn´t change jobs for more money throw the first stone; I guess there where contracts involved too.
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