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28 Dec 2011 16:44

I'm actually quite shocked that cyclists still fly economy class on those distances (San Luis is 12 hour flight at least). Add to that the jetlag and you see why globalization in cycling fails....
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28 Dec 2011 17:16

Arnout wrote:I'm actually quite shocked that cyclists still fly economy class on those distances (San Luis is 12 hour flight at least). Add to that the jetlag and you see why globalization in cycling fails....


Might be part of the strain on the budget the repeated flights create. The more flyaway races you have to do, the more tickets on flights you have to buy. The teams without the big budgets will get stretched by this.
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28 Dec 2011 17:43

Libertine Seguros wrote:Might be part of the strain on the budget the repeated flights create. The more flyaway races you have to do, the more tickets on flights you have to buy. The teams without the big budgets will get stretched by this.


Well, the team of Chavanel is by no means small, so it seems to be a common issue.

But yeah, actually what you were saying is exactly what I was (trying to) say :p
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28 Dec 2011 17:49

Arnout wrote:I'm actually quite shocked that cyclists still fly economy class on those distances (San Luis is 12 hour flight at least). Add to that the jetlag and you see why globalization in cycling fails....

Does it? An Australian just won the Tour de France...
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28 Dec 2011 18:08

theyoungest wrote:Does it? An Australian just won the Tour de France...


I don't mean new countries not winning anything, I mean the riders having to travel all around the world by obligation to do their trick.
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28 Dec 2011 18:20

Arnout wrote:I don't mean new countries not winning anything, I mean the riders having to travel all around the world by obligation to do their trick.

But what failure are you talking about? The races in Canada don't fail, the Tour of California doesn't fail, and the Tour de San Luis certainly doesn't either. Even the Tour Down Under, although not very exciting for fans of climbing (and Euskaltel), isn't a failure.
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28 Dec 2011 18:25

theyoungest wrote:But what failure are you talking about? The races in Canada don't fail, the Tour of California doesn't fail, and the Tour de San Luis certainly doesn't either. Even the Tour Down Under, although not very exciting for fans of climbing (and Euskaltel), isn't a failure.


He means the failure of teams that can't afford the increase in budget that having to travel all over the world increasingly often brings.
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28 Dec 2011 18:42

Yep. In my opinion its living the cyclists.

Edit: I know San Luis is not compulsory and everything, but still, in my opinion races all over the globe for the same select group of cyclists just isn't gonna work, for aforementioned reasons.
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28 Dec 2011 20:15

Arnout wrote:Yep. In my opinion its living the cyclists.

Edit: I know San Luis is not compulsory and everything, but still, in my opinion races all over the globe for the same select group of cyclists just isn't gonna work, for aforementioned reasons.

Then cycling has to be about the only international sport where such a thing doesn't work.
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28 Dec 2011 20:23

theyoungest wrote:Then cycling has to be about the only international sport where such a thing doesn't work.


Well it is about the only international sport I know where competitors can't manage a peak in both May and July.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


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28 Dec 2011 20:46

theyoungest wrote:Then cycling has to be about the only international sport where such a thing doesn't work.


Yes, because the World Club Championship in football took off so well, and teams jet off all over the world all the time.

Cycling is a very different sport to most; where a football team could play a game in, say, Moscow, on Wednesday, then fly back to Portugal or the UK and play again on Saturday, they have gone out there for some training and 90 minutes of action. In cycling, there are often several successive days of action, riders are asked to put the effort in day after day.

A football team probably isn't going to be flying economy class either.

Besides, the main thing here is not the strain on the riders but the strain on the teams. Barcelona and Manchester United can afford to fly across the world all the time, for sure, but then Deportivo la Coruña or Blackburn Rovers perhaps can't. And the thing is, in football, the clubs are compensated for this travel in the form of a percentage of the gate money or the TV rights or whatever (which might not exist for some overseas cycling events). Sometimes cycling teams will spend a bunch on the travel and get next to nothing out of it. And they're starting on lower budgets and competing for lower cash prizes. The big teams can afford to do all the flyaway races, it's no problem to them, but for the smaller teams it might really stretch their budget, and so they either have to reconsider their options and downgrade the team, or source alternatives sources of sponsorship. And some sponsors might think they're not getting enough out of it and pull the plug, and that's it, bye-bye team - a risk not inherently present in most other sports.
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28 Dec 2011 20:59

Libertine Seguros wrote:Yes, because the World Club Championship in football took off so well, and teams jet off all over the world all the time.

Cycling is a very different sport to most; where a football team could play a game in, say, Moscow, on Wednesday, then fly back to Portugal or the UK and play again on Saturday, they have gone out there for some training and 90 minutes of action. In cycling, there are often several successive days of action, riders are asked to put the effort in day after day.

A football team probably isn't going to be flying economy class either.

Besides, the main thing here is not the strain on the riders but the strain on the teams. Barcelona and Manchester United can afford to fly across the world all the time, for sure, but then Deportivo la Coruña or Blackburn Rovers perhaps can't. And the thing is, in football, the clubs are compensated for this travel in the form of a percentage of the gate money or the TV rights or whatever (which might not exist for some overseas cycling events). Sometimes cycling teams will spend a bunch on the travel and get next to nothing out of it. And they're starting on lower budgets and competing for lower cash prizes. The big teams can afford to do all the flyaway races, it's no problem to them, but for the smaller teams it might really stretch their budget, and so they either have to reconsider their options and downgrade the team, or source alternatives sources of sponsorship. And some sponsors might think they're not getting enough out of it and pull the plug, and that's it, bye-bye team - a risk not inherently present in most other sports.

You seem to think of "international sport" as including only football, but I was thinking more along the lines of tennis, golf, track and field... that sort of thing.

As for the expenses: correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the teams for the Canadian races are flown in via intercontinental charter flight from Paris paid by the organisation, and they stay in a 4 star hotel, paid by the organisation as well. Just to name an example.
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28 Dec 2011 21:13

LaFlorecita wrote:Lol! Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if you were a 12 month old.


Hey, I own exclusive rights to that kind of ACF abuse!:D
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28 Dec 2011 21:16

theyoungest wrote:You seem to think of "international sport" as including only football, but I was thinking more along the lines of tennis, golf, track and field... that sort of thing.

As for the expenses: correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the teams for the Canadian races are flown in via intercontinental charter flight from Paris paid by the organisation, and they stay in a 4 star hotel, paid by the organisation as well. Just to name an example.


I compare to football for ease of comparison. The point about the stress on the athletes still stands when compared to tennis, golf and track and field; while the latter three aren't really 'team' events in the same way cycling is and require less budget to be spent on the transfer of equipment (not sure about the cost of golf equipment, though, that may run it close?) as well as transferring people in smaller amounts. The level to which cycling teams are reliant on sponsor input is something almost unique to the sport too. Track and field is perhaps the most directly comparable, owing to the vast range of specialities and number of competing GPs and events which have some but not all of the stars at various points.

Cycling also, to a level not often seen in other international sports, is reliant on several contingent, overlapping national scenes. As a result, some of the teams at the top level are relatively regional concerns, because a lot of the sponsors are regional. Increasing internationalisation and compulsory attendance of a number of flyaway races for teams may be a problem for teams with sponsors of a relatively limited area; these flyaway races often increase the costs for a sponsor, whilst simultaneously meaning the team may decrease their presence at races important to their sponsor, and the lack of top names at these races may make them hard to sustain.

It's a hard balance to strike within cycling; globalisation is a positive goal, but at a time of economic hardship we would be well advised not to kill off too much of the base until we know which of the globalisation events will sink and which will swim.

California looks like a success story at the time being - though its self-hype may be above its station, 2.HC status is ideal for it because it gives the US teams a season goal and gets enough top stars that it has a good startlist. Making it World Tour could make several races in May problematic because of the problem of jetlag AND the compulsory attendance of both that and the Giro.
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Nibali the favourite for 2012 Giro d'Italia, says Basso

29 Dec 2011 15:06

Stelvio key to Basso's pink jersey hopes

Ivan Basso has named Vincenzo Nibali as his favourite for the 2012 Giro d’Italia and suggested that Liquigas-Cannondale will tackle the race with two leaders. It had been rumoured that Nibali would forgo the Giro in order to focus on the Tour de France, but Basso insisted that he would be happy to ride alongside Nibali in May.

“My favourite for the Giro is Nibali,” Basso told Gazzetta dello Sport. “I’m convinced that in the end Vincenzo will be at the Giro too."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-the-favourite-for-2012-giro-ditalia-says-basso
Testing the bounds of reality.
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29 Dec 2011 15:55

Liquigas double team at Giro would be great.

Would be a shame to see Stelvio cancelled but maybe then theyll just do Mortirolo Aprica as a replacement.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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29 Dec 2011 16:15

Basso: "Nibali isn't good enough to podium the 2012 Tour". ;)
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29 Dec 2011 16:34

Arnout wrote:I'm actually quite shocked that cyclists still fly economy class on those distances (San Luis is 12 hour flight at least). Add to that the jetlag and you see why globalization in cycling fails....


yeah you see the crowd masses at san luis every year?? and the starts going there every year? this year they even get contador. talk about failing :L
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29 Dec 2011 16:36

Arnout wrote:Yep. In my opinion its living the cyclists.

Edit: I know San Luis is not compulsory and everything, but still, in my opinion races all over the globe for the same select group of cyclists just isn't gonna work, for aforementioned reasons.


you truly don't understand do you?? globalisation means more money for everyone including the teams so higher budgets. do you evenr ealize in the past 5-10 years budgets have pretty much doubled for the top 18 teams in the world?
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29 Dec 2011 16:38

The Hitch wrote:Well it is about the only international sport I know where competitors can't manage a peak in both May and July.


mma, athletics, swimming, weightlifting
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