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Rebellin appreciation thread.

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

29 Apr 2009 09:09

Greg Johnson wrote:Myles, it's yet to be confirmed that this is the rider in question. A little early for the BikePure highhorse to charge on someone, surely?

Cheers
Greg Johnson


its not too early...

MILAN, April 29 (Reuters) - Cycling road race silver medallist Davide Rebellin failed a drugs test from the Beijing Games, the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) said on Wednesday.

confirmed...

like i say ban him.. lets move on... but of course we cant because...

"Davide has not done anything. Now we must stay calm in the light of this incredible development," Rebellin's wife and agent Selina Martinello told Gazzetta dello Sport's website (http://www.gazzetta.it).
"We have sent off the request for the analysis of a B sample. We will go on until the end."
dimspace
 

29 Apr 2009 09:13

quarterpounder wrote:Some of you are quick to throw the italien veteran under the bus, but in the midst of this let's not forget that he has had a great CLEAN career until this stupid mistake. He had probably been ill or injured and was struggling to regain form in time for the olympics and so choose to take the CERA in order to not let his fans down.
No positives for 16 years that says it all really. Just last wednesday he showed once again that it can be done clean, so let's not remember him for this lapse of judgement but instead for all of the great things he has done for the sport. I still remember him doing the triple (Amstel/Fleche/LBL) in 2004. Stuff of legends.


Great thread got em all in hook line and sinker :D
User avatar Argon Man
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29 Apr 2009 09:16

no less a cyclist for the years up to 2007.. 90% of the guys where doping, his results stand fairly against others... great rider

2008 and 2009.. write off, before that, not a cheat, just like everyone else.. last two years, a cheat.. simple.. taking drugs when all (well most) around him wanted racing clean...

which davide rebellin will i remember.... ?
dimspace
 

29 Apr 2009 09:17

dimspace wrote:its not too early...

MILAN, April 29 (Reuters) - Cycling road race silver medallist Davide Rebellin failed a drugs test from the Beijing Games, the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) said on Wednesday.


My mistake. I've been on the train for two hours and hadn't seen the update.

The rest of the comment stands though.

Cheers
Greg Johnson
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29 Apr 2009 09:45

I don't think the issue with BikePure is that he's wrong, per se. He's actually quite knowledgeable, and brings a lot of logic and facts to his arguments. It's that he's probably the most jaded, lopsided, singularly focused on doping, member on the forum.

It's like having liver and onions on the top of every menu where you eat. You'll get sick of even seeing it pretty quickly, but you'll probably survive fine if you order it all the time.

:cool:
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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29 Apr 2009 10:05

quarterpounder wrote:Some of you are quick to throw the italien veteran under the bus, but in the midst of this let's not forget that he has had a great CLEAN career until this stupid mistake. He had probably been ill or injured and was struggling to regain form in time for the olympics and so choose to take the CERA in order to not let his fans down.
No positives for 16 years that says it all really. Just last wednesday he showed once again that it can be done clean, so let's not remember him for this lapse of judgement but instead for all of the great things he has done for the sport. I still remember him doing the triple (Amstel/Fleche/LBL) in 2004. Stuff of legends.


Fail......
User avatar Nick777
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29 Apr 2009 10:24

I saw this issue hit the news last night and pondered...we've just seen a great set of spring classis's with many of what we probably all believed were worthy winners, but really how much of what we watched was real?

Who knows in eight months time was Devolders win at the Ronde, Bossan- Hagens Wevelgem or Boonens solo Roubaix win all stuff of legend or just another tick on some pharmaceutical companies chalk board.

Fantasy cycling....you dont have to play the game! :(
Jacques Tati
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29 Apr 2009 10:36

Mesci76
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29 Apr 2009 10:40

Alpe d'Huez wrote:It's that he's probably the most jaded, lopsided, singularly focused on doping, member on the forum.


I guess life is all about balance, right? We have a few people who want to close their eyes and pretend it's not an issue too.

Personally, I'm in the middle. There are issues that need to be constantly fought for the sport's sake - both doping related and otherwise. But equally, we can't expect a series of governing bodies and related organisations from different aspects of the sporting spectrum, and thus different interests, to have greater cooperation than similar organisations in other aspects of life - like the United Nations - has never managed to obtain.

Cheers
Greg Johnson
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29 Apr 2009 10:52

I'm not sure if I agree with you, Greg. I believe cooperation is quite essential if a clean sport, or clean sports, is the goal - which it should be. I agree with your conclusion regarding organisations with different interests, but I don't think that applies to the anti-doping area, as I tend to believe that all the different organisations in reality have the same goal and thus the same interests. There might be small differences, but the ultimate goal is a doping-free world of sports, right?
kjetilraknerud
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29 Apr 2009 11:34

kjetilraknerud wrote:I'm not sure if I agree with you, Greg. I believe cooperation is quite essential if a clean sport, or clean sports, is the goal - which it should be.


Excellent, I like a healthy debate and you've made some good points.

I'm not saying it's not essential, it is. But it's also never going to happen. We should strive to achieve it, but be realistic and know that everyone has their own goals and in many cases they won't match one another.

kjetilraknerud wrote:I tend to believe that all the different organisations in reality have the same goal and thus the same interests.


I would like to agree, however over time it's been proven to be the case that some national bodies are keener to pursue the matter than others. The other issue is that this goes beyond the sporting world. The fact that law in every nation is different means it's impossible for all positive cases to be dealt with in an equal fashion.

Why should one cyclist serve a short ban which happens to fall outside of the cycling season while others gets slapped with up to two years for the same offence? That's not only unfair, it will result in riders using the loophole and one nation ending up with all 50 of the world's best riders riding under their licence...funny that.

kjetilraknerud wrote: There might be small differences, but the ultimate goal is a doping-free world of sports, right?


Certainly is. But this should be seen as something that has a defined start and finish. It's an evolutionary matter and as a result the fight against it needs to match the issue it's taking on. It needs to be constant, it needs to evolve, but don't go walking around thinking that come a certain date sport - any sport - will be free of doping.

I’m cautious towards those on the upper-extreme against the problem, as I know they will probably realise this, lose faith and burn out one day. That does nothing to achieve the beliefs they fought for on a longer scale of time. You need people to have a strong belief in it and apply a level of pressure they can maintain, because they’re always going to need to maintain it.

Man is a competitive beast. He only needs the chance to beat a fellow man on the line to cheat, the fact that we're in a multi-billion dollar issue only further complicates the matter.

Cheers
Greg Johnson
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29 Apr 2009 11:42

dimspace wrote:thats just quoting the same italian news agency source... i would be amazed if the source is wrong though...

um.. thoughts.. sod it, ban him (maybe easier to ban anyone who rode for gerolsteiner, tmobile or any german team... its amazing how the east german mentality for doping carried on after the wall came down), forget about him, lets move on...


Be careful what you wish for. Evans, Hausler, Gerdemann and others.
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29 Apr 2009 11:51

I totally agree with you on the fact that the sport never will be clean - that would only happen in the Tour of Utopia. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to achieve it. The key is cooperation, which in my opinion should be organized as a hierarchy - with WADA on top - with license to overrule any decisions by lower organisations, like a national governing body.

This would also be the case in Utopia of course, but it should be possible to make small steps.

For example (non-sport warning), have a look at the law system in the Europan Union. Any disagreement regarding EU-specific law, ultimately will be decided by the EU-court - but not until the national court system have made a decision on their own.

Translated to sports, WADA is your "supreme court", and every nation has to sign an agreement or similar - to be able to compete in the worlds premier sport events.

I'm sorry if this is unclear, I find it quite diffictult to express myself as precise in english, as I have pointed out before :)
kjetilraknerud
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29 Apr 2009 12:00

kjetilraknerud wrote:I'm sorry if this is unclear, I find it quite diffictult to express myself as precise in english, as I have pointed out before :)


Not difficult to understand at all. I agree with what you're getting at, maybe we will get there someday in decades time, but much of the issues within the sport depend on co-operation issues from outside it. Particularly legal ones.

If we can solve some of those issues the world - not just sport - will be a much better place. There's a few people out there who are long overdue to stand trial for crimes against humanity.

Cheers
Greg Johnson
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29 Apr 2009 12:01

kjetilraknerud wrote:I'm sorry if this is unclear, I find it quite diffictult to express myself as precise in english, as I have pointed out before :)


I think you are selling yourself short...your points are clear and precise as far as I can read.

Conversely, if I were to try and explain my (english) thoughts på norsk, it wouldn't be anywhere close...
[SIZE="1"][/SIZE]"If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter -- and therefore, unsafe."
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29 Apr 2009 12:08

Thanks for that. Don't get too many chances to practice my english, but forum writing is a nice one :)
kjetilraknerud
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29 Apr 2009 12:38

quarterpounder wrote:Some of you are quick to throw the italien veteran under the bus, but in the midst of this let's not forget that he has had a great CLEAN career until this stupid mistake. He had probably been ill or injured and was struggling to regain form in time for the olympics and so choose to take the CERA in order to not let his fans down.
No positives for 16 years that says it all really. Just last wednesday he showed once again that it can be done clean, so let's not remember him for this lapse of judgement but instead for all of the great things he has done for the sport. I still remember him doing the triple (Amstel/Fleche/LBL) in 2004. Stuff of legends.


http://www.greyhound.com/home
User avatar Pietro
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29 Apr 2009 12:55

quarterpounder wrote:Some of you are quick to throw the italien veteran under the bus, but in the midst of this let's not forget that he has had a great CLEAN career until this stupid mistake. He had probably been ill or injured and was struggling to regain form in time for the olympics and so choose to take the CERA in order to not let his fans down.
No positives for 16 years that says it all really. Just last wednesday he showed once again that it can be done clean, so let's not remember him for this lapse of judgement but instead for all of the great things he has done for the sport. I still remember him doing the triple (Amstel/Fleche/LBL) in 2004. Stuff of legends.


Image
User avatar mr. tibbs
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29 Apr 2009 18:19

Angliru wrote:Be careful what you wish for. Evans, Hausler, Gerdemann and others.


to be honest, the early season fat'el evans reminded me of ullrich.. but thats all im saying..

you can see how the temptation is there though.. someone like cadel, always the bridesmaid, five years ago, ten years ago, there would have been the temptation to take that little something to give you that little extra...
dimspace
 

And here we go again

29 Apr 2009 23:37

Rebellin: "I did not take anything"


According to the latest Cycling News entry - he is innocent !! Like the rest of them --> Schumacher, Hamilton, Landis
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