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The Froome Files, test data only thread

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The Froome Files, test data only thread

01 Dec 2015 22:44

Last edited by thehog on 04 Dec 2015 11:59, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar thehog
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02 Dec 2015 01:34

The tests were carried out at the GlaxoSmithKline Human Performance Lab in London in August, since when the Kenyan-born cyclist is understood to have obtained the results of tests carried out when he first joined the UCI’s World Cycling Centre as a young rider out of Africa in 2007.


Can someone translate this into English?
Merckx index
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02 Dec 2015 02:19

:D ^

Dave,
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Re:

02 Dec 2015 02:20

Merckx index wrote:
The tests were carried out at the GlaxoSmithKline Human Performance Lab in London in August, since when the Kenyan-born cyclist is understood to have obtained the results of tests carried out when he first joined the UCI’s World Cycling Centre as a young rider out of Africa in 2007.


Can someone translate this into English?


Makes absolutely no sense. Perhaps the journalist read from the Sky issued press release incorrectly? :)

I'm going to keep an open mind at this point but picked up that Brailford said "independent" then went on to say he knows the GSK guys from the English Institue of Sport and they are "good guys", thus not actually independent! :confused:

Chris felt he wanted to do the physiological testing and of course the important thing about that was that it was going to be independently done. They did it with the GSK guys. I know the [GSK] guys from the EIS [English Institute of Sport], they’re a good bunch of guys.
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 05:39

Chris felt he wanted to do the physiological testing and of course the important thing about that was that it was going to be independently done. They did it with the GSK guys. I know the [GSK] guys from the EIS [English Institute of Sport], they’re a good bunch of guys.


There's a chance that quote there wins the Internet irony award for today.
heart_attack_man
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02 Dec 2015 06:19

Maybe he referred to Ken van Someren, Matt Furber and Phil Bell, a good bunch of senior scientists.
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02 Dec 2015 06:47

clean
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
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Re:

02 Dec 2015 08:56

Merckx index wrote:
The tests were carried out at the GlaxoSmithKline Human Performance Lab in London in August, since when the Kenyan-born cyclist is understood to have obtained the results of tests carried out when he first joined the UCI’s World Cycling Centre as a young rider out of Africa in 2007.


Can someone translate this into English?


Add an "also" and it makes perfect sense. : "have also obtained" (but the meaning seems obvious even without that)
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 08:58

thehog wrote:
Merckx index wrote:
I'm going to keep an open mind at this point but picked up that Brailford said "independent" then went on to say he knows the GSK guys from the English Institue of Sport and they are "good guys", thus not actually independent!


Independent of the team. Froome has already said this, distancing Sky from the decision to do it.
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 09:32

fmk_RoI wrote:
Merckx index wrote:
The tests were carried out at the GlaxoSmithKline Human Performance Lab in London in August, since when the Kenyan-born cyclist is understood to have obtained the results of tests carried out when he first joined the UCI’s World Cycling Centre as a young rider out of Africa in 2007.


Can someone translate this into English?


Add an "also" and it makes perfect sense. : "have also obtained" (but the meaning seems obvious even without that)


it infers that he did not have sight of the (2007) test results until after he did the recent tests...of side interest but hardly believable that either he, sky or his management team haven't had them for a while.

"Sir dave, Froome has just come second in Vuelta and could have won it"
"But he's crap..we were going to sack him......Has he ever shown any potential?"
"Well we have his test results from a few years ago at the UCI...but, he did do some races in sand shoes"
"Sand shoes you say..................."
The End
gillan1969
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 10:06

gillan1969 wrote:it infers that he did not have sight of the (2007) test results until after he did the recent tests...of side interest but hardly believable that either he, sky or his management team haven't had them for a while.


No it doesn't. It infers he obtained from UCI results of his 2007 tests, nothing more, Maybe he had them, but the geeks wouldn't accept his copies and wanted them direct from UCI (as any sensible auditor would do). Maybe he was shown them in 2007 but never given copies. How you can infer he never had sight of the 2007 test results is beyond me - they've been spoken about often enough.
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 10:33

fmk_RoI wrote:
gillan1969 wrote:it infers that he did not have sight of the (2007) test results until after he did the recent tests...of side interest but hardly believable that either he, sky or his management team haven't had them for a while.


No it doesn't. It infers he obtained from UCI results of his 2007 tests, nothing more, Maybe he had them, but the geeks wouldn't accept his copies and wanted them direct from UCI (as any sensible auditor would do). Maybe he was shown them in 2007 but never given copies. How you can infer he never had sight of the 2007 test results is beyond me - they've been spoken about often enough.


But never in detail. The best we had was a French coach saying "like Hinault" MDR.

It stinks like Sunday's fish on a Thursday.
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 10:44

fmk_RoI wrote:
gillan1969 wrote:it infers that he did not have sight of the (2007) test results until after he did the recent tests...of side interest but hardly believable that either he, sky or his management team haven't had them for a while.


No it doesn't. It infers he obtained from UCI results of his 2007 tests, nothing more, Maybe he had them, but the geeks wouldn't accept his copies and wanted them direct from UCI (as any sensible auditor would do). Maybe he was shown them in 2007 but never given copies. How you can infer he never had sight of the 2007 test results is beyond me - they've been spoken about often enough.


the article infers it not me...it states:

"since when the Kenyan-born cyclist is understood to have obtained the results of tests carried out"

the 'since when' refers to the recent tests and ' understood to have obtained' infers the understanding was that he never had them before.....

In terms of news management it fits with the sky narrative....if he had them before why didn't he just release them...which is of course the question everyuone has been asking....

of course he had them...I still have my lab results...and I'm crap :)
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 10:51

Dear Wiggo wrote:But never in detail.


That doesn't make the inference made any less stupid.
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 10:53

gillan1969 wrote:the article infers it not me


Amazing. Can't read but can read an inference like that into the article.
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 11:02

fmk_RoI wrote:
gillan1969 wrote:the article infers it not me


Amazing. Can't read but can read an inference like that into the article.


i would suggest opening a dictionary and checking what 'to obtain' means, as opposed to say ' to receive' and then look at how that might change the inference...
gillan1969
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02 Dec 2015 14:00

I think fmk-Rol is spot on. 'Obtained' seems to mean something very different than 'saw for the first time'. As a scientist, it would suggest that the complete data set was collected for the purpose of the study. Those 2007 numbers wouldn't be publishable otherwise.

I think the 'when' is a typo. I think it should read..... 'since then, the kenyan born cyclist is understood to also have obtained....'
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Re:

02 Dec 2015 14:36

djpbaltimore wrote:I think fmk-Rol is spot on. 'Obtained' seems to mean something very different than 'saw for the first time'. As a scientist, it would suggest that the complete data set was collected for the purpose of the study. Those 2007 numbers wouldn't be publishable otherwise.

I think the 'when' is a typo. I think it should read..... 'since then, the kenyan born cyclist is understood to also have obtained....'


bloomin 'eck...if you 'obtain' something...do you already have it?
gillan1969
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Re: Re:

02 Dec 2015 14:39

fmk_RoI wrote:
thehog wrote:
Merckx index wrote:
I'm going to keep an open mind at this point but picked up that Brailford said "independent" then went on to say he knows the GSK guys from the English Institue of Sport and they are "good guys", thus not actually independent!


Independent of the team. Froome has already said this, distancing Sky from the decision to do it.


We've had this discussion prior. I agree the word 'independent' in general terms means what it means and as you state it.

In a regulatory, compliance context its very much different. Independent in this context would be a testing body which went through due diligence to ensure that there was no conflict of interests whether actual or perceived. If there are any 'perceived' conflicts then these would be declared up front so the final data could be viewed under that context.

The fact that GSK has a contract or 'had' a contract or still 'wants' a contract with EIS does raises a conflict. Its not a direct conflict but it is there. All those types of aspects can influence individuals. Peer review/audit may counter a conflict of this nature.
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02 Dec 2015 14:47

I can obtain my college transcript from the registrar's office, but that doesn't mean that I don't know what my grades were. I think the passage refers more towards intellectual property than your interpretation. It could've involved a MTA (material transfer agreement) with the UCI center.
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