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Steven Kruijswijk

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24 May 2016 18:18

Right. There's a massive difference between,

A rider may have won a race had he not gotten sick or crashed out

AND

A rider's victory should be asterisk'd (ergo, should be valued less) because someone else crashed or got sick.
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
User avatar Red Rick
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Re:

24 May 2016 18:42

Red Rick wrote:Lol at asterisks. Really, you can't beat who's not there, and you can't beat riders in top form when they're crap. Seriously. This should be asterisk'd because Landa crashed out?? Landa, the guy who got one GT podium prior to that, whilst Kruijswijk is beating riders who have won GTs and even Nibali, who's won them all?

It's utter horsecrap. You know that too, but your favourite rider crashed out/isn't there/is crap so a rider you don't like wins. boo **** hoo


In my books, if Kruijswijk does go on to win this Giro, it won't be asterisk'd, as most of the pre-race contenders are still there, and while I think Landa would have been his biggest competitor, I'm not entirely convinced Landa would have been good enough to make up the time he lost on the flat TTs (if he'd have been able to drop the currently invincible Kruijswijk at all)

It's different when you win a GT and don't show anything before or after suggesting that you'd have beaten the missing riders, because then your palmares make you look better than you actually are
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24 May 2016 18:55

Kruijswijk was isolated with 70 kilometers to go on the first col of the day today and managed to turn around that situation into his favor with sheer power and awareness!

Where to put an asterix there? Landa is completely irrelevant to his performance as he looked weaker when he was still in the race on any stage bar the tt. Like I already said: What could've or maybe would've happened without his illness doesn't count that much since the exact opposite happened when he was still in the race.

I'm a Landa fan btw.
Last edited by staubsauger on 24 May 2016 19:02, edited 2 times in total.
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24 May 2016 18:57

Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?
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Re:

24 May 2016 19:15

Pantani_lives wrote:Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?


In front of Contador likely (and in front of Gesink surely), and 100% not better than 3rd.

For me its somewhere between 'irrelevant' and 'I don't really care'
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re:

24 May 2016 19:18

Pantani_lives wrote:Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?


What is he like riding in extreme heat? Because if he has problems with that then he wouldn't have challenged
del1962
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Re: Re:

24 May 2016 19:28

Valv.Piti wrote:
Miburo wrote:There's a difference though with Landa who showed weakness in the first week of the giro and still needed to confirm his performance in this years giro and Contador who was by far the best rider in 2014 and crushed everyone in his sight.

I'm just saying, 2 completely different situations of the asterisk debate ;)


I get what you are saying and thats a good point, but fundamentally, there isn't a difference. Someone crashed out and people are questioning if he would've done the same if that rider had been present.


So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.

So why questions? If no answers?

-Kwibus, great philosopher (read: random poster) of the CN.com forum
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Re:

24 May 2016 19:34

Pantani_lives wrote:Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?


We need watts output from him and other riders.

Else it's just speculating.

I do think we shouldn't underestimate the performance he's giving. next year allready makes me incredibly curious ;)
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Re: Re:

24 May 2016 19:40

Kwibus wrote:
So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.

So why questions? If no answers?

-Kwibus, great philosopher (read: random poster) of the CN.com forum


I'm almost rolling on the floor right now :D
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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24 May 2016 19:44

Numbers-wise it's probably nothing to write home about, but that's largely because of the kind of race the Giro is and the way it's raced. Some folks would probably beat Kruijswijk with this form at the Tour, but they might well lose to him at the Giro.
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Re:

24 May 2016 19:47

hrotha wrote:Numbers-wise it's probably nothing to write home about, but that's largely because of the kind of race the Giro is and the way it's raced. Some folks would probably beat Kruijswijk with this form at the Tour, but they might well lose to him at the Giro.


True. Steven also said he prefers the way the Giro is raced which is a lot less controlled then the TdF.
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24 May 2016 19:50

Both the MTT and the Valparola stage had pretty good numbers for the stages they were. Could others do better in absolute top form? Probably, but it is a short list
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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24 May 2016 19:55

Kruijswijk said the Giro suits him more because the course is more demanding and has more gruelling long steep climbs.

TDF is too much absolute monster speed climbs, almost TT climbs, perfect for Froome. Not for a diesel Kruijswijk.

I also think Kruijswijk must be pinching himself there is not so much 1-mountain stages this year. Stages like Montecampione a few years back or Blockhaus as only climb. He'd hate it
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Re:

24 May 2016 20:34

Pantani_lives wrote:Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?


Valverde could be a good reference. I think he is here at a similar level to Le Tour. That altitude stage is not something you encounter in France.
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24 May 2016 22:02

Yes, i think this years Giro route is perfect for Steve .
Riposa in pace Michele!
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24 May 2016 22:23

Great ride from Kruijswijk so far: always in control, he hasn't put a foot wrong in two weeks and he has been putting his weight in all the right moves. Only his team can make him lose if he has a mechanical or something. I think he's too experienced by now to suffer some hunger knock although no one is free from that.
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24 May 2016 22:48

Friday should favor him with only two long big cols. Saturday is gonna be one last big test for him. If even Battaglin and Roglic are already long gone on the first col and can't come back on the descent he might be in problems. If he ain't got no damage on Friday though, he can simply do his own powermeter race and keep an eye on the time check.
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24 May 2016 22:51

He looks in control and riding like a winner.
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25 May 2016 02:19

He is not explosive. He is not a good TTer. IMO he is good for top 5 in GTs. in this Giro, everybody except for him has either bad luck or bad form which is why he is leading by so much time. But however he can only compete with whats available. Just like a Froome Contador battle never materialized in the TDF or Nibali wining TDF 2014. We will see his performance in the upcoming years if he's a one GT horse or not
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Re:

25 May 2016 02:21

IndianCyclist wrote:He is not explosive. He is not a good TTer.


The same can be said about Quintana.
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