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Brits don't dope?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Brits don't dope?

14 Aug 2016 21:58

Has Hansen ever broken 4:20 before today?

Edit: he did, but it seems at a glance that his previous PB was about 5 seconds slower than today
Last edited by roundabout on 14 Aug 2016 22:00, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar roundabout
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14 Aug 2016 21:59

As a Brit and former Olympian myself ( 84 ) I,m finding it bloody embarrassing....
my fellow Brit cycling fans would be screaming blue murder if any other country was as dominant as GB are being on the track...
nothing seams to blind peeps as much as patriotism does it ! :(
Darryl Webster
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Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 22:00

PremierAndrew wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Chris Hoy asked on the BBC what's the biggest thing that's changed over the years in track cycling. He said not the kit or equipment. But the analysis.. Hoy trolling. :D


This makes me question the logic behind a lot of your posts.
Kit or equipment would have a marginal effect compared to the effect of pacing properly, technique at critical points such as accelerating or holding a pace on a big chainring etc

Doped or not, it's really not surprising that analysis is a critical part of the improvements made


Analysis was always done. Analysis has got better and better alongside equipment and kit.

Merely pointing to Hoy's stupidity in making such a statement.

Chris Boardman's answer?

"There's plenty more marginal gains to be discovered" :D
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Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 22:02

Benotti69 wrote:
PremierAndrew wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Chris Hoy asked on the BBC what's the biggest thing that's changed over the years in track cycling. He said not the kit or equipment. But the analysis.. Hoy trolling. :D


This makes me question the logic behind a lot of your posts.
Kit or equipment would have a marginal effect compared to the effect of pacing properly, technique at critical points such as accelerating or holding a pace on a big chainring etc

Doped or not, it's really not surprising that analysis is a critical part of the improvements made


Analysis was always done. Analysis has got better and better alongside equipment and kit.

Merely pointing to Hoy's stupidity in making such a statement.

Chris Boardman's answer?

"There's plenty more marginal gains to be discovered" :D


It's one thing to be able to time different segments of a ride, it's another to be able to see second-by-second power outputs etc...
Kit and equipment can only improve so much, while an improvement in the cyclist themself is much more likely to be significant
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Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 22:16

PremierAndrew wrote:
rehy90 wrote:
PremierAndrew wrote:Cavendish 11 seconds faster in the IP than in the worlds

Nothing to see here


there is no way you improve this much at this level in just a few months...crazy


Well, you certainly can. But the problem is, Cav was under pressure to perform to get a place on the GB team for the Olympics, so he must have had to peak. To improve 11 seconds on supposedly a peak...

Then again, I don't think being beaten by Nizzolo in Slovenia is his peak, so I'll continue to hold on to that 1% chance that he might be clean


Nizzolo was holding onto a peak though at the time so he could win the Italian nationals.

'Holding onto a peak' sorry for that, it makes very little sense. I meant he was in very good shape at the time.
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14 Aug 2016 22:20

That was Croatia, Nizzolo did not ride Slovenia.

And Croatia was one and a half months after the track worlds
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Re:

14 Aug 2016 22:24

Eyeballs Out wrote:Marginal gains is dead. Peaking is the new marginal gains. GB peak for the big events. Everyone else peaked sometime around last xmas


I did snigger just now when the commentators said, the Worlds don't matter, the rest of the world needs to realise it's all about the Olympics (some minor parsphrasing).

God I don't know whether to suspend disbelief or not. The scale of UK dominance is unbelievable, and to some extent uncredible.

But a bigger part of me finds it hard to believe that in this day and age any organised programme could be operated on this scale without someone spilling the beans big style. Let's face it, the British media has bigged up doping is bad over a long long period. I can't believe at least some nice kids from middle class homes wouldn't blab if they knew it was bent.
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Re:

14 Aug 2016 22:26

roundabout wrote:That was Croatia, Nizzolo did not ride Slovenia.

And Croatia was one and a half months after the track worlds

Then ignore me.
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Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 22:30

Brullnux wrote:
roundabout wrote:That was Croatia, Nizzolo did not ride Slovenia.

And Croatia was one and a half months after the track worlds

Then ignore me.


That was just me being pedantic.

As for the peak at the Worlds, it seems that Cavendish did 4:24.52 on the 4th of June in Lithuania.

http://www.ldsf.lt/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/OMNIUM-2016-I-Day.pdf

page 9
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Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 22:44

PremierAndrew wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
PremierAndrew wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Chris Hoy asked on the BBC what's the biggest thing that's changed over the years in track cycling. He said not the kit or equipment. But the analysis.. Hoy trolling. :D


This makes me question the logic behind a lot of your posts.
Kit or equipment would have a marginal effect compared to the effect of pacing properly, technique at critical points such as accelerating or holding a pace on a big chainring etc

Doped or not, it's really not surprising that analysis is a critical part of the improvements made


Analysis was always done. Analysis has got better and better alongside equipment and kit.

Merely pointing to Hoy's stupidity in making such a statement.

Chris Boardman's answer?

"There's plenty more marginal gains to be discovered" :D


It's one thing to be able to time different segments of a ride, it's another to be able to see second-by-second power outputs etc...
Kit and equipment can only improve so much, while an improvement in the cyclist themself is much more likely to be significant


an improvement in the cyclist themselves(sic) is much more likely to be significant ; that's where the doping comes in. ;)
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14 Aug 2016 22:47

You're missing the point. When Hoy answered, were you expecting him to say 'doping'? Because it's not a surprise that the evolution of the analysis techniques and technology is more important, than kit and stuff, an answer which you chose to single out for stupidity
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Re:

14 Aug 2016 23:22

PremierAndrew wrote:You're missing the point. When Hoy answered, were you expecting him to say 'doping'? Because it's not a surprise that the evolution of the analysis techniques and technology is more important, than kit and stuff, an answer which you chose to single out for stupidity


Of course Sir Hoy is going to say live on the BBC at the Olympic games, doping is the single most important factor :D

GB made a huge deal over their frames and wheels 4 years ago. Now riding Cervelo's and Campy wheels.

Just pointing out the changing story lines we keep getting from TeamGB.
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Re:

15 Aug 2016 00:11

Rollthedice wrote:Basically UK is the new GDR only clean. Maybe even better.


That's correct and they have Heiko Salzwedel to assist from the GDR. I love the Orwellian sounding name of the department he heads up funded by lottery money: "Monitoring and Evaluation".
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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2016 08:56

in the 90s Heiko brought the Aussies to his native Cottbus. In the 70s and 80s Cottbus was one of the hotspots of GDR doping. Heiko is a huge facilitator behind the scenes, with contacts into the UCI. Was quick to jump ship shortly before Rusvelo went down in 2013.
He's also a visionary. Is on the record in 2005 already claiming that what we are seeing is a new clean cycling generation.
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15 Aug 2016 08:58

Lol at the medal table, btw. UK really are the big dopers of the moment.
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Re:

15 Aug 2016 09:41

sniper wrote:Lol at the medal table, btw. UK really are the big dopers of the moment.


One factor that should be taken into account is the Russian ban, with Russians being good in similar events to UK and not as good in the Chinese medal hopes.

But that factor isn't big enough to account for UK doing so well, especially when you consider UK are doing better than their home olympics four years earlier, which is practically unprecedented
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Re:

15 Aug 2016 12:55

fmk_RoI wrote:In the spirit of general Brit-bashing (and unsure where the proper thread for this is), ex-BC coach Shane Sutton's showing that doping really does mess with your head:
You’re dealing with big personalities so it’s not always going to be a bed of roses. It was a fantastic culture and you look at someone like Jason Kenny who has been there ten years…if the culture was wrong he wouldn’t have lasted that long. He’s probably going to go on and be our greatest Olympian. The lad has Tokyo in him and who knows what he can achieve, not just at these Games and given the form he has. So the culture can’t be as bad as everyone has made out and it will be interesting to hear the findings of the panel.

I believe, and I’ve said it all along, it’s not one of fear. It’s one of excellence and the only people in fear, in the system, are the ones that have failed to deliver.



It will be interesting to see how those ahem 'independent' enquiries pan out? Shane's made noises that he thinks he'll be cleared. Even if he is, he doesn't seem to be missed trackside if recent results are anything to go by. Seeing as he stepped down in the light of the allegations, will he be let back in if he's cleared?
German Spies…. “Filthy hun weasels, fighting their dirty underhand war!”
One of our spies...” Splendid fellows, brave heroes risking life and limb for Blighty!”


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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2016 13:44

The Carrot wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:In the spirit of general Brit-bashing (and unsure where the proper thread for this is), ex-BC coach Shane Sutton's showing that doping really does mess with your head:
You’re dealing with big personalities so it’s not always going to be a bed of roses. It was a fantastic culture and you look at someone like Jason Kenny who has been there ten years…if the culture was wrong he wouldn’t have lasted that long. He’s probably going to go on and be our greatest Olympian. The lad has Tokyo in him and who knows what he can achieve, not just at these Games and given the form he has. So the culture can’t be as bad as everyone has made out and it will be interesting to hear the findings of the panel.

I believe, and I’ve said it all along, it’s not one of fear. It’s one of excellence and the only people in fear, in the system, are the ones that have failed to deliver.



It will be interesting to see how those ahem 'independent' enquiries pan out? Shane's made noises that he thinks he'll be cleared. Even if he is, he doesn't seem to be missed trackside if recent results are anything to go by. Seeing as he stepped down in the light of the allegations, will he be let back in if he's cleared?


He'll likely return to Sky as a coach/deputy team principal.
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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2016 13:46

MatParker117 wrote:
The Carrot wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:In the spirit of general Brit-bashing (and unsure where the proper thread for this is), ex-BC coach Shane Sutton's showing that doping really does mess with your head:
You’re dealing with big personalities so it’s not always going to be a bed of roses. It was a fantastic culture and you look at someone like Jason Kenny who has been there ten years…if the culture was wrong he wouldn’t have lasted that long. He’s probably going to go on and be our greatest Olympian. The lad has Tokyo in him and who knows what he can achieve, not just at these Games and given the form he has. So the culture can’t be as bad as everyone has made out and it will be interesting to hear the findings of the panel.

I believe, and I’ve said it all along, it’s not one of fear. It’s one of excellence and the only people in fear, in the system, are the ones that have failed to deliver.



It will be interesting to see how those ahem 'independent' enquiries pan out? Shane's made noises that he thinks he'll be cleared. Even if he is, he doesn't seem to be missed trackside if recent results are anything to go by. Seeing as he stepped down in the light of the allegations, will he be let back in if he's cleared?


He'll likely return to Sky as a coach/deputy team principal.


Few women and disabled people there so it's a possibility.
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Re:

15 Aug 2016 17:38

Darryl Webster wrote:As a Brit and former Olympian myself ( 84 ) I,m finding it bloody embarrassing....
my fellow Brit cycling fans would be screaming blue murder if any other country was as dominant as GB are being on the track...
nothing seams to blind peeps as much as patriotism does it ! :(


Great quote, especially coming from someone that had been on the 'inside' at some point in time.

Edit: I'm going to use that quote in my tagline if you don't mind... :D
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