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Michele Scarponi RIP

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24 Apr 2017 15:56

Yeah, there are so many cases of reckless drivers killing cyclists that it's understandable to cry "manslaughter!" or even "murder!" in the heat of the moment, but sometimes and regrettably accidents do happen where no one's really to blame.
User avatar hrotha
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24 Apr 2017 16:12

https://youtu.be/Gy7Lx1zHtY4

Here you can see the damn crossroad and from where came michele better...only o second of not paying attention by the driver was unfortunately enough...
people there said there was no blood on the scene...Michele's heart stopped on the spot from the shock, aortic rupture i guess.. :(
User avatar jens_attacks
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Re:

24 Apr 2017 16:19

HelloDolly wrote:This video would suggest the driver turned into the side road without seeing the oncoming Scarponi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA_efgfyBi4

More needs to be done imo to ensure drivers are conscious of cyclists and give right of way

The number of training crashes seems to be growing

The othere major issue is a vehicle turning left in the UK , right in Europe and not leaving enough space or taking due care so the cyclists on the inside is not effected ....

These two maneuvers I think are responsible for a lot of cyclist fatalities


Same thing happened to me, except fortunately the road was flat so I wasn't going as fast and "only" came away with two compressed vertebrae fractures and lots of pain. That is a little truck turned across my lane and the impact was unavoidable.

The driver in the Scarponi incident said he didn't see him coming, which may have been because of sun glare. It's plausible at that hour and considering the celestial color of the jersey.
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Re:

24 Apr 2017 16:25

HelloDolly wrote:This video would suggest the driver turned into the side road without seeing the oncoming Scarponi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA_efgfyBi4

More needs to be done imo to ensure drivers are conscious of cyclists and give right of way

The number of training crashes seems to be growing

The othere major issue is a vehicle turning left in the UK , right in Europe and not leaving enough space or taking due care so the cyclists on the inside is not effected ....

These two maneuvers I think are responsible for a lot of cyclist fatalities


Without making this political and/or blaming anyone (especially in this tragic accident) there is a shared responsibility - we don't know the speed of Scarponi and the visibility considering the time of day (morning sun?). These are circumstances everyone, driver and cyclist, should take into account.

All in all it's a very tragic accident :(
User avatar Arnout
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24 Apr 2017 17:13

I guess I examine the accident and put it here to make all aware
I still think more can be done to make drivers aware of cyclists ..In London alone 15 fataities last year

This is not about blame (the authorities will look at that ) but awareness

But mostly my heart would wish Scarponi was 1 minute earlier or later or maybe had a lie in that morning or something else ....because it is heart breaking
HelloDolly
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Re: Re:

24 Apr 2017 17:36

jens_attacks wrote:Michele's father said the he knows well giuseppe the driver (i'm sure he knew michele too) and he thinks about him too. a tragedy for so many people...

:(

jens_attacks wrote:people there said there was no blood on the scene...Michele's heart stopped on the spot from the shock, aortic rupture i guess.. :(

Well maybe it's a relief.. at least he didn't suffer except during those few horrifying moments before the impact :(
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Re: Re:

24 Apr 2017 18:25

jens_attacks wrote:Michele's father said the he knows well giuseppe the driver (i'm sure he knew michele too) and he thinks about him too. a tragedy for so many people...


Just goes to show that in tragedies like this there are only victims. :(
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re: Re:

24 Apr 2017 18:43

RedheadDane wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:Michele's father said the he knows well giuseppe the driver (i'm sure he knew michele too) and he thinks about him too. a tragedy for so many people...


Just goes to show that in tragedies like this there are only victims. :(


Yeah, so many lives destroyed by this accident :(
How can the driver be able to live with this, now? Tormented by guilt and regrets... Horrible!
User avatar TommyGun
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Re:

24 Apr 2017 19:24

DNP-Old wrote:Image

:( :( :(
Takes me a while to process things, but once I saw this picture that is when I lost it.

RIP Michele Scarponi.
User avatar Tricycle Rider
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24 Apr 2017 19:33

Just so extremely unfair :(
Image
User avatar LaFlorecita
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Re:

24 Apr 2017 19:58

LaFlorecita wrote:Just so extremely unfair :(
Image


Amen to that.
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24 Apr 2017 20:30

Do they understand, those two little boys, that daddy is never coming home? :cry:

Heartbreaking if they do.
Heartbreaking if they don't.
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re:

24 Apr 2017 20:38

HelloDolly wrote:This video would suggest the driver turned into the side road without seeing the oncoming Scarponi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA_efgfyBi4

More needs to be done imo to ensure drivers are conscious of cyclists and give right of way

The number of training crashes seems to be growing

The othere major issue is a vehicle turning left in the UK , right in Europe and not leaving enough space or taking due care so the cyclists on the inside is not effected ....

These two maneuvers I think are responsible for a lot of cyclist fatalities
At this time I don't think it's appropriate to lay any of the blame down on anyone. But what I do know, as both a rider and driver, is don't ever presume cars will stop for you when you're a rider. You have to be extra vigilant and so much more on the defensive as a rider because, yes, sometimes the drivers actually cannot see you.

It's a two-way street, guys. Unfortunately, as both drivers and riders we do still have to share the road.

Nobody won in this tragedy, nobody won at all.
User avatar Tricycle Rider
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Re: Re:

24 Apr 2017 20:53

Arnout wrote:
HelloDolly wrote:This video would suggest the driver turned into the side road without seeing the oncoming Scarponi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA_efgfyBi4

More needs to be done imo to ensure drivers are conscious of cyclists and give right of way

The number of training crashes seems to be growing

The othere major issue is a vehicle turning left in the UK , right in Europe and not leaving enough space or taking due care so the cyclists on the inside is not effected ....

These two maneuvers I think are responsible for a lot of cyclist fatalities


Without making this political and/or blaming anyone (especially in this tragic accident) there is a shared responsibility - we don't know the speed of Scarponi and the visibility considering the time of day (morning sun?). These are circumstances everyone, driver and cyclist, should take into account.

All in all it's a very tragic accident :(


And adding to that, the light blue of the Astana kit doesn't seem to me the most visible thing when the sun is shining. :sad:
User avatar Ricco'
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Re: Re:

24 Apr 2017 20:56

Tricycle Rider wrote:
HelloDolly wrote:This video would suggest the driver turned into the side road without seeing the oncoming Scarponi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA_efgfyBi4

More needs to be done imo to ensure drivers are conscious of cyclists and give right of way

The number of training crashes seems to be growing

The othere major issue is a vehicle turning left in the UK , right in Europe and not leaving enough space or taking due care so the cyclists on the inside is not effected ....

These two maneuvers I think are responsible for a lot of cyclist fatalities
At this time I don't think it's appropriate to lay any of the blame down on anyone. But what I do know, as both a rider and driver, is don't ever presume cars will stop for you when you're a rider. You have to be extra vigilant and so much more on the defensive as a rider because, yes, sometimes the drivers actually cannot see you.

It's a two-way street, guys. Unfortunately, as both drivers and riders we do still have to share the road.

Nobody won in this tragedy, nobody won at all.


Riders need to be heads up, as do drivers. We share the road, but we can be dead right. Drivers not as much with us. It's the risk we all take. At once, in this case, the rider was simply following his lane.
User avatar rhubroma
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25 Apr 2017 01:09

Unfortunately, as a cyclist and driver I've experienced both very similar to this tragedy. I've hit a cyclist turning right as he came up on the inside. Was in a long line of traffic and the guy stuck in the same going the other way flashed me to go. Didn't see the guy until he went over my bonnet. Luckily he was OK but what a fright for both of us. Bike was a write off, which I paid for. On the bike, near the end of a 70K ride so I wasn't going that fast a van turned right into a garage without indicating, he obviously didn't see me, and I remember to this day the look of horror on the young guy's face in the passenger seat as he saw me approaching. Luckily, I managed to hit the brakes and swerved just to miss it by inches. No helmet in those days for me and I still have nightmares about it. Point is I guess it's easily done. RIP Michele.
User avatar ferryman
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Re:

25 Apr 2017 02:10

ferryman wrote:Unfortunately, as a cyclist and driver I've experienced both very similar to this tragedy. I've hit a cyclist turning right as he came up on the inside.
Didn't quite hit a rider as a driver, but the dude was totally riding on the wrong side of the the road. (It was a sharp right I had to take to the gas station, dude was riding straight on the same side of the road. And I didn't see he was doing this.)

Fortunately nothing bad happened, he just bitched me out and gave me the finger, but I still felt badly as a driver because I should have somehow reacted differently. (Still have nightmares about this, if I had hit him things could have gone very badly for him.)

Anyhoo, bad things happen on the road between drivers and riders, very bad things can happen. And I would like to believe, at least, most of them are not intentional.
User avatar Tricycle Rider
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25 Apr 2017 12:23

If anyone wants to make a financial contribution to the Scarponi family, the details are in this post:
https://twitter.com/AstanaTeam/status/856767602273775616
User avatar LaFlorecita
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2017 12:44

Tricycle Rider wrote:
HelloDolly wrote:This video would suggest the driver turned into the side road without seeing the oncoming Scarponi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA_efgfyBi4

More needs to be done imo to ensure drivers are conscious of cyclists and give right of way

The number of training crashes seems to be growing

The othere major issue is a vehicle turning left in the UK , right in Europe and not leaving enough space or taking due care so the cyclists on the inside is not effected ....

These two maneuvers I think are responsible for a lot of cyclist fatalities
At this time I don't think it's appropriate to lay any of the blame down on anyone. But what I do know, as both a rider and driver, is don't ever presume cars will stop for you when you're a rider. You have to be extra vigilant and so much more on the defensive as a rider because, yes, sometimes the drivers actually cannot see you.

It's a two-way street, guys. Unfortunately, as both drivers and riders we do still have to share the road.

Nobody won in this tragedy, nobody won at all.


Totally agree wtith you. Thought a lot about this, also before Scarpa's incident, and of couse drivers have to be just cautious instead of constantly blaming cyclists (and even walkers) about whatever presumed wrongdoing, while they're sitting high and dry in their confortable car.

But very often when I'm riding with others (I prefer riding alone, but sometimes it can be fun) I'm just constantly shaking my head about their naive behaviour. Yeah it's fun to go flat out on a descent or through a sharp corner, but we have no closed parcours like the pros. Maybe I look silly braking before almost every corner until my speed is below 20 kph, stopping pedalling and ready to brake everytime I see a car towards me, but I prefer looking silly instead of never being able to ride again.
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2017 14:00

Pennino wrote:Totally agree wtith you. Thought a lot about this, also before Scarpa's incident, and of couse drivers have to be just cautious instead of constantly blaming cyclists (and even walkers) about whatever presumed wrongdoing, while they're sitting high and dry in their confortable car.

But very often when I'm riding with others (I prefer riding alone, but sometimes it can be fun) I'm just constantly shaking my head about their naive behaviour. Yeah it's fun to go flat out on a descent or through a sharp corner, but we have no closed parcours like the pros. Maybe I look silly braking before almost every corner until my speed is below 20 kph, stopping pedalling and ready to brake everytime I see a car towards me, but I prefer looking silly instead of never being able to ride again.
I'm glad you mentioned the restricted courses the pros get to ride during a race, most of us do not get that. In my area we get crosswalk road signs that say pedestrians and cyclists get the right-of-way, which the drivers disregard on a very regular basis. (I've just learned to come to a full stop, and if the driver acknowledges me and lets me go I wave and say thank you.)

Anyhoo, apologies if I high-jacked this thread, I just want for you guys to be safe out there when you are riding.
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