Log in:  

Register

Most Suspicious Performance Of The Last 5 Years

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re: Re:

16 May 2017 15:47

Benotti69 wrote:
kingjr wrote:Not even close


Domoulin has ridden 7 GTs before this Giro and only finished 3. Not a great record or a showing of potential for GTs.

With the Vuelta in mind, this is not even close.
kingjr
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,539
Joined: 09 Sep 2012 18:53
Location: Germany

Re: Re:

17 May 2017 08:45

Djoop wrote:
Gung Ho Gun wrote:Nibali's recovery was suspicious, but ignoring the crashed Kruijswijk, he only gained around 2:30 on his rivals over 2 mountain stages. Before the 2 mountain stages:
2. Chaves -1:43
3. Valverde -1:20
4. Nibali

After the 2 stages:
1.Nibali
2.Chaves +52
3.Valverde +1:17

A part of his prior deficit was due to a mechanical in the ITT. Landis, on the other hand, came from 11th place, 5-6 minutes behind the trio of Sastre-Kloden-Evans, and gained 6-8 minutes on them in a single stage, all by himself.

It was pretty suspicious even before Kruijswijk's crash. Nibali had lost time through multiple stages, including the ITT. Day after (stage 16) he lost a minute to Chaves again. His form was deteriorating, Kruijswijk & Chaves were gaining time on him. After the last rest day the roles suddenly reversed. Hence the comparison with Landis.

Oh, I agree with the reversal being suspicious. But if you'd said before the Giro that Nibali would gain 2 minutes on Valverde and Chaves in the last 2 mountain stages, it wouldn't even be improbable. The thought of Landis destroying the field in a single stage, gaining more than 6 minutes on everyone, was always insane.
User avatar Gung Ho Gun
Member
 
Posts: 467
Joined: 15 Jul 2013 14:46

17 May 2017 20:38

Well, the Giro is only partway through, and he could still tank and lose 20 minutes. But if Domoulin holds on to win however that will put him up there with Horner, and some of Froome's recent "achievements".
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
Veteran
 
Posts: 10,059
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 03:51
Location: New England

17 May 2017 20:44

Landis' performance is quite possibly the best single day performance in the history of professional bicycle racing. Given the era and circumstances, absolutely mind-boggling.

Honorable mention goes to is Cancellara's sprint up the cobblestones in the 2010 Ronde van Vlaanderen.

In the last 5 years, I'd vote for Froome motoring up Ventoux in 2013.

Wiggins in the 2012 Tour de France is my runner-up choice...
DanielSong39
Member
 
Posts: 868
Joined: 15 Jul 2016 13:03

17 May 2017 21:09

Yes, Froome on Ventoux on 2013 was almost laughable if it weren't so insulting. He dropped Contador like he was a sprinter, then caught and toyed with Quintana just the same, spinning big gears away from him, racing to the top. I believe he equaled Armstrong's heavily doped 2002 time up the climb, while riding into a headwind. Oh, it was also 40 degrees at the base of the climb. All while his heart rate sat around 160bpm.

Right.

Domoulin has a long way to go to reach that level.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
Veteran
 
Posts: 10,059
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 03:51
Location: New England

18 May 2017 00:02

Just wait to see what Van Garderen can do if he'll go to Sky.
User avatar lenric
Member
 
Posts: 1,330
Joined: 19 May 2014 21:52

18 May 2017 17:39

Froome's TT in last Vuelta. Completely out of line with his general form curve. Specially obvious when looking how much more time he put into Quintana when compared to the TT in the Tour, where the latter was clearly in worse shape, wind very strong and TT itself longer. Obvious case of a blood bag well utilised.
User avatar Põhja Konn
Member
 
Posts: 404
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 17:09

Re: Most Suspicious Performance Of The Last 5 Years

18 May 2017 18:07

Where did this Gaviria guy come from?
DanielSong39
Member
 
Posts: 868
Joined: 15 Jul 2016 13:03

Re:

18 May 2017 18:09

Põhja Konn wrote:Froome's TT in last Vuelta. Completely out of line with his general form curve. Specially obvious when looking how much more time he put into Quintana when compared to the TT in the Tour, where the latter was clearly in worse shape, wind very strong and TT itself longer. Obvious case of a blood bag well utilised.


I'm thinking electricity. Maybe he borrowed Cancellara's bike from the Olympics?
DanielSong39
Member
 
Posts: 868
Joined: 15 Jul 2016 13:03

Re:

18 May 2017 18:33

Alpe d'Huez wrote:Well, the Giro is only partway through, and he could still tank and lose 20 minutes. But if Domoulin holds on to win however that will put him up there with Horner, and some of Froome's recent "achievements".



Yeah, but Horner was a month shy of his 42nd birthday when he clinched the Vuelta in 2013. Dumoulin is 26, 27 towards the end of the year. Where was Horner at 26, 27? Wasn't he a journeyman, racing domestically, primarily? And Dumoulin has had good to excellent results since he became a pro.
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,880
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

Re: Re:

18 May 2017 19:07

BullsFan22 wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:Well, the Giro is only partway through, and he could still tank and lose 20 minutes. But if Domoulin holds on to win however that will put him up there with Horner, and some of Froome's recent "achievements".



Yeah, but Horner was a month shy of his 42nd birthday when he clinched the Vuelta in 2013. Dumoulin is 26, 27 towards the end of the year. Where was Horner at 26, 27? Wasn't he a journeyman, racing domestically, primarily? And Dumoulin has had good to excellent results since he became a pro.


Agreed. Horner winning the Vuelta at nearly 42 was ridiculous. Dumoulin does not stand out at just 26. Miguel Indurain didn't win a Tour until 27 and didn't raise any eyebrows until the year before at 26 - same age as Dumoulin now. Incidentally Dumoulin reminds me of Big Mig except we need to remind ourselves Tom is still 10 Kg lighter. Different era, different "preparation".
Cookster15
Member
 
Posts: 970
Joined: 14 May 2011 19:25

18 May 2017 19:38

I stand corrected. If Dumoulin goes on to win this Giro it will be surprising, but nothing like Horner's Vuelta, or Froome's transformation.

Horner was a US domestic racer until the age of 34, when he signed with Saunier-Duval. While a very good climber for the first 15 years or so of his career, he was never considered in the same category as Tom Danielson, or Scott Moninger even, let alone someone who could contribute to a team for a full 3 week GT.

Froome was slightly better, but almost a nobody, with no notable results, until he joined Sky in 2010.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
Veteran
 
Posts: 10,059
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 03:51
Location: New England

Re: Most Suspicious Performance Of The Last 5 Years

18 May 2017 19:44

DanielSong39 wrote:Where did this Gaviria guy come from?


Umm, Columbia? J/K

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Gaviria

He's 22 yo, wouldn't say he's come from nowhere.
Sorped
Junior Member
 
Posts: 75
Joined: 14 Sep 2014 23:59

Re: Re:

18 May 2017 20:31

BullsFan22 wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:Well, the Giro is only partway through, and he could still tank and lose 20 minutes. But if Domoulin holds on to win however that will put him up there with Horner, and some of Froome's recent "achievements".



Yeah, but Horner was a month shy of his 42nd birthday when he clinched the Vuelta in 2013. Dumoulin is 26, 27 towards the end of the year. Where was Horner at 26, 27? Wasn't he a journeyman, racing domestically, primarily? And Dumoulin has had good to excellent results since he became a pro.


Dumoulin is a physically gifted GT rider in the same mold as Indurain -- essentially a rouleur who can climb, dominates TT, can hold his own in the mountains, and with the right combination of circumstances (course, crashes, team tactics) can win a GT. I would say that his performances aren't all that suspicious. Nowhere near Landis/Horner level.
Bolder
Junior Member
 
Posts: 273
Joined: 25 Jun 2015 07:29

Re: Most Suspicious Performance Of The Last 5 Years

18 May 2017 20:35

DanielSong39 wrote:Where did this Gaviria guy come from?


Serious question, you don't watch much cycling, do you?
User avatar GuyIncognito
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,488
Joined: 27 Jun 2013 21:19

Re: Most Suspicious Performance Of The Last 5 Years

18 May 2017 23:44

DanielSong39 wrote:Where did this Gaviria guy come from?

Have I woken up in 2015 without realizing?
User avatar Saint Unix
Member
 
Posts: 575
Joined: 14 Feb 2014 11:00
Location: Norway

Re:

18 May 2017 23:54

Põhja Konn wrote:Froome's TT in last Vuelta. Completely out of line with his general form curve. Specially obvious when looking how much more time he put into Quintana when compared to the TT in the Tour, where the latter was clearly in worse shape, wind very strong and TT itself longer. Obvious case of a blood bag well utilised.


2016 Tour TT 37km
Froome beats Quintana by 2'04"

2016 Vuelta TT 37km
Froome beats Quintana by 2'16"

That seems very consistent to me.

(If you're thinking about the Stage 18 Tour TT - then have a look at the profile)

As with many on here, your suspicion is due to misinformation.
Parker
Member
 
Posts: 1,247
Joined: 04 Mar 2011 01:20

Re: Re:

19 May 2017 00:56

DanielSong39 wrote:
Põhja Konn wrote:Froome's TT in last Vuelta. Completely out of line with his general form curve. Specially obvious when looking how much more time he put into Quintana when compared to the TT in the Tour, where the latter was clearly in worse shape, wind very strong and TT itself longer. Obvious case of a blood bag well utilised.


I'm thinking electricity. Maybe he borrowed Cancellara's bike from the Olympics?

Tbh his 2014 Vuelta tt when he suddenly forgot how to ride against the clock for 1 1/2 years was far more suspicious imho!
User avatar staubsauger
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,804
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 18:14

Re: Re:

19 May 2017 12:41

Parker wrote:
Põhja Konn wrote:Froome's TT in last Vuelta. Completely out of line with his general form curve. Specially obvious when looking how much more time he put into Quintana when compared to the TT in the Tour, where the latter was clearly in worse shape, wind very strong and TT itself longer. Obvious case of a blood bag well utilised.


2016 Tour TT 37km
Froome beats Quintana by 2'04"

2016 Vuelta TT 37km
Froome beats Quintana by 2'16"

That seems very consistent to me.

(If you're thinking about the Stage 18 Tour TT - then have a look at the profile)

As with many on here, your suspicion is due to misinformation.


The difference is that in the Tour, Froome was in top form while Quintana was below his best. In the Vuelta, Froome cracked spectacularly in Stage 15 while Quintana was in top form. Context is everything.
DanielSong39
Member
 
Posts: 868
Joined: 15 Jul 2016 13:03

Re: Re:

19 May 2017 15:37

Parker wrote:
Põhja Konn wrote:Froome's TT in last Vuelta. Completely out of line with his general form curve. Specially obvious when looking how much more time he put into Quintana when compared to the TT in the Tour, where the latter was clearly in worse shape, wind very strong and TT itself longer. Obvious case of a blood bag well utilised.


2016 Tour TT 37km
Froome beats Quintana by 2'04"

2016 Vuelta TT 37km
Froome beats Quintana by 2'16"

That seems very consistent to me.

(If you're thinking about the Stage 18 Tour TT - then have a look at the profile)

As with many on here, your suspicion is due to misinformation.


Somehow I always thought that Tour TT was significantly longer, more closer to 45k. Should have actually checked the facts before posting. :redface:

As it is that performance is not really worth highlighting in this particular thread.
User avatar Põhja Konn
Member
 
Posts: 404
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 17:09

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

Back to top