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11 Aug 2017 16:36

Absolutely. Also, everyone saying Trubisky played well. But the Bears did not ask much of him either, and he did not have to go further than 2 progressions. And he did not go deep either. A lot of dink & dunk 1st progression throws with some completions to intermediate routes. I thought he looked great in that 1st half 2-min drill, and the pass completion down to the 1-yd line to set up the TD was great, but again, that completion was his 2nd progression (I think short to the middle was his 1st). He moved the ball in the 2-min drill to end the game, but everything was underneath the coverage because that is what the defense was giving the Bears offense. Bad clock management at the end, and if the Bears really wanted to score a TD to tie they needed to go deeper instead of all underneath completions. But yeah, this was a nice confidence building game for Trubisky (103 rating for him compared to 153 for Dak's first game as a rookie last year). Accuracy was great on most throws. Glennon (0.0 rating) better step it up if he wants to retain the QB-1 job.

As for Watson, what other choice does Houston have other than to start him? Weeden or Savage?
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12 Aug 2017 00:48

HOLY F! Elliott got six games!! Let me start by saying that if there was DM, he should be punished (kicked in the testes). The prosecutor didn't think that there was enough clear (conflicting, changing, etc.) evidence to move forward, but did say something to the effect of 'there was likely physical contact...'. Is that what the NFL is hanging its hat on? I'm not OK with the NFL being the 'law'.

Peter King : "In each case, police did not charge him, citing insufficient evidence and conflicting accounts. However, the league said that in the course of its investigation it found “substantial and persuasive evidence supporting a finding that [Elliott] engaged in physical violence” against the victim “on multiple occasions during the week of July 16, 2016.”

If it was so persuasive, why did it take over a year to make a decision?

From a sporting standpoint, this is bad for the Cowboys because they have built their offense around EE running the ball. They don't have the chance to draft or trade for a replacement, nor time to change their playbook. DMc better step up!
jmdirt
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12 Aug 2017 01:23

Well, there is a problem of domestic violence across the league, so the league must want to send a message. My problem is inconsistent application of the discipline, and/or discipline in cases where proof is lacking. I'm all for curbing domestic violence, but apparently there is a problem when the league is the judge, jury, and executioner.

Ryan Tannehill out for season with season ending knee surgery. So much for the initial diagnosis (by whom I wonder, and glad that person is not my doctor) of "no structural damage".
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Re:

12 Aug 2017 03:23

on3m@n@rmy wrote:Well, there is a problem of domestic violence across the league, so the league must want to send a message. My problem is inconsistent application of the discipline, and/or discipline in cases where proof is lacking. I'm all for curbing domestic violence, but apparently there is a problem when the league is the judge, jury, and executioner.

Ryan Tannehill out for season with season ending knee surgery. So much for the initial diagnosis (by whom I wonder, and glad that person is not my doctor) of "no structural damage".


I think they must have known that before signing Cutler. As for Elliott, not good for the Cowboys obviously. Someone needs to give him the big talk !
movingtarget
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Re: Re:

12 Aug 2017 03:28

movingtarget wrote:
on3m@n@rmy wrote:Well, there is a problem of domestic violence across the league, so the league must want to send a message. My problem is inconsistent application of the discipline, and/or discipline in cases where proof is lacking. I'm all for curbing domestic violence, but apparently there is a problem when the league is the judge, jury, and executioner.

Ryan Tannehill out for season with season ending knee surgery. So much for the initial diagnosis (by whom I wonder, and glad that person is not my doctor) of "no structural damage".


I think they must have known that before signing Cutler. As for Elliott, not good for the Cowboys obviously. Someone needs to give him the big talk ![/quote]

Yeah they should make Jerry Jones do it. No wait! Not a good idea!
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Re: Re:

12 Aug 2017 08:06

Alpe d'Huez wrote:In Denver it looks like again Paxton Lynch is being outplayed by Trevor Simeon, which has to be a bit of a disappointment to Bronco brass. Lynch will start game 2 of the preseason, and more will be known then.

True...but Lynch is going to be given every opportunity to win the starting job. My guess is that he'll have to start on opening day. How can you justify the 26th overall player drafted last year, and 3rd QB selected behind Goff & Wentz, sitting the bench for the second year in row behind a "7th" round pick who, IMO, is average at best? This is Elway's guy and I don't think Siemian can lead them to the promise land anyway. It's probably make or break for Lynch and move on.

Also, Chad Kelly, Jim Kelly's nephew and the last player drafted this year (a la "Mr. Irrelevant"), may be put on IR. The 4th QB on the roster, Kyle Sloter, is a free agent from the little University of Northern Colorado in Greeley, who's looking very good in practice and didn't look to shabby in the 4th Q against Chicago. Word has it he's locked-in a practice squad job and maybe a shot at the back-up depending on what happens with Siemian & Lynch. Of course if things really go south with the QBs, Elway is going to have to sign someone out there (...calling Colin Kaepernick?).

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/8/11/16131216/broncos-paxton-lynch-the-starter
Nomad
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Re: Re:

12 Aug 2017 15:18

Nomad wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:In Denver it looks like again Paxton Lynch is being outplayed by Trevor Simeon, which has to be a bit of a disappointment to Bronco brass. Lynch will start game 2 of the preseason, and more will be known then.

True...but Lynch is going to be given every opportunity to win the starting job. My guess is that he'll have to start on opening day. How can you justify the 26th overall player drafted last year, and 3rd QB selected behind Goff & Wentz, sitting the bench for the second year in row behind a "7th" round pick who, IMO, is average at best? This is Elway's guy and I don't think Siemian can lead them to the promise land anyway. It's probably make or break for Lynch and move on.

Also, Chad Kelly, Jim Kelly's nephew and the last player drafted this year (a la "Mr. Irrelevant"), may be put on IR. The 4th QB on the roster, Kyle Sloter, is a free agent from the little University of Northern Colorado in Greeley, who's looking very good in practice and didn't look to shabby in the 4th Q against Chicago. Word has it he's locked-in a practice squad job and maybe a shot at the back-up depending on what happens with Siemian & Lynch. Of course if things really go south with the QBs, Elway is going to have to sign someone out there (...calling Colin Kaepernick?).

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/8/11/16131216/broncos-paxton-lynch-the-starter

True Lynch will be given every opportunity to compete for the starting job, but he will not be gifted the starting job just because he was a 26th overall draft pick or that he should learn through "baptism by fire" as the article says. No, Denver's choice for the starting QB position will be based on who the better player is, who is playing better, and who gives them the best chance to win. At the moment, Siemian has the edge. Furthermore, there is a reason he was 26th overall in a weak draft for quarterbacks. In other draft years he might have easily been a second-rounder, third-rounder, or lower. Nobody on the team staff should be foolish enough to allow his draft position to be used as a reason to name him the starter. He must earn it. That's how it should work. Gifting just stirs up player discontent for coaching and management decisions. So, I disagree with that article's author.
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Re: Re:

12 Aug 2017 16:30

Nomad wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:In Denver it looks like again Paxton Lynch is being outplayed by Trevor Simeon, which has to be a bit of a disappointment to Bronco brass. Lynch will start game 2 of the preseason, and more will be known then.

True...but Lynch is going to be given every opportunity to win the starting job. My guess is that he'll have to start on opening day. How can you justify the 26th overall player drafted last year, and 3rd QB selected behind Goff & Wentz, sitting the bench for the second year in row behind a "7th" round pick who, IMO, is average at best? This is Elway's guy and I don't think Siemian can lead them to the promise land anyway. It's probably make or break for Lynch and move on.

Also, Chad Kelly, Jim Kelly's nephew and the last player drafted this year (a la "Mr. Irrelevant"), may be put on IR. The 4th QB on the roster, Kyle Sloter, is a free agent from the little University of Northern Colorado in Greeley, who's looking very good in practice and didn't look to shabby in the 4th Q against Chicago. Word has it he's locked-in a practice squad job and maybe a shot at the back-up depending on what happens with Siemian & Lynch. Of course if things really go south with the QBs, Elway is going to have to sign someone out there (...calling Colin Kaepernick?).

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/8/11/16131216/broncos-paxton-lynch-the-starter


Which is why the pressure is really going to be on Goff this year. Gurley will also be expected to step up for the Rams after his 2016 season. From what I saw of Siemian last year, I thought he deserved to be starting.
movingtarget
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12 Aug 2017 16:33

Roberto Aguayo, the Bucs' 2016 2nd round draft pick, has now been cut. Can't help wondering whether his lacklustre performances are mainly caused by the added pressure of the Bucs trading up to get him. That they even drafted a kicker in the second round is just silly
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Re:

12 Aug 2017 22:11

infeXio wrote:Roberto Aguayo, the Bucs' 2016 2nd round draft pick, has now been cut. Can't help wondering whether his lacklustre performances are mainly caused by the added pressure of the Bucs trading up to get him. That they even drafted a kicker in the second round is just silly

Yeah, I had a good laugh when Bucs traded UP (not down, UP) to round 2 to take this kicker. The most important thing about a kicker you cannot measure - the mind. Kicking is mostly mental. Forget muscle memory except in warm up kicks with no pressure. If I was a team looking for a kicker I'd hire a shrink to follow the college kicker around to see how he is mentally before I'd draft him - if I could get away with it. And then I'd only use a 7th round pick. Then how many steps does he take? How long does he take? Any longer translates to more pressure when kicking in the NFL.

Some teams have done well drafting a kicker high and have gotten away with it. Punter Ray Guy was a Raider first round pick a looooong time ago. And it worked out really well. But the Raiders already had a team loaded with talent so they could afford to risk a high pick on Ray. The Bucs talent is not equivalent to what those Raiders had compared to the competition. The Bucs really wasted a second round pick that they could have used for other positions.
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Re:

12 Aug 2017 22:40

infeXio wrote:Roberto Aguayo, the Bucs' 2016 2nd round draft pick, has now been cut. Can't help wondering whether his lacklustre performances are mainly caused by the added pressure of the Bucs trading up to get him. That they even drafted a kicker in the second round is just silly


But the kicker survives............those are the sorts of decisions that don't go well for the GMs either especially if they do it more than once or make investments that don't turn out well. Over time it's all tallied up. Trubisky better turn out well for the Chicago GM as well. As for the Rams and Goff.......
movingtarget
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Re: Re:

13 Aug 2017 12:35

on3m@n@rmy wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:In Denver it looks like again Paxton Lynch is being outplayed by Trevor Simeon, which has to be a bit of a disappointment to Bronco brass. Lynch will start game 2 of the preseason, and more will be known then.

True...but Lynch is going to be given every opportunity to win the starting job. My guess is that he'll have to start on opening day. How can you justify the 26th overall player drafted last year, and 3rd QB selected behind Goff & Wentz, sitting the bench for the second year in row behind a "7th" round pick who, IMO, is average at best? This is Elway's guy and I don't think Siemian can lead them to the promise land anyway. It's probably make or break for Lynch and move on.

Also, Chad Kelly, Jim Kelly's nephew and the last player drafted this year (a la "Mr. Irrelevant"), may be put on IR. The 4th QB on the roster, Kyle Sloter, is a free agent from the little University of Northern Colorado in Greeley, who's looking very good in practice and didn't look to shabby in the 4th Q against Chicago. Word has it he's locked-in a practice squad job and maybe a shot at the back-up depending on what happens with Siemian & Lynch. Of course if things really go south with the QBs, Elway is going to have to sign someone out there (...calling Colin Kaepernick?).

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/8/11/16131216/broncos-paxton-lynch-the-starter

True Lynch will be given every opportunity to compete for the starting job, but he will not be gifted the starting job just because he was a 26th overall draft pick or that he should learn through "baptism by fire" as the article says. No, Denver's choice for the starting QB position will be based on who the better player is, who is playing better, and who gives them the best chance to win. At the moment, Siemian has the edge. Furthermore, there is a reason he was 26th overall in a weak draft for quarterbacks. In other draft years he might have easily been a second-rounder, third-rounder, or lower. Nobody on the team staff should be foolish enough to allow his draft position to be used as a reason to name him the starter. He must earn it. That's how it should work. Gifting just stirs up player discontent for coaching and management decisions. So, I disagree with that article's author.
I disagree with you and agree with the article...that's why I posted it. Was Lynch drafted as a starter or a backup? Elway traded up a few spots to draft him in the 1st rd and not let him go to the 2nd rd (I would imagine Elway knows a little something about QBs). So, if Lynch doesn't start the Broncos are therefore going to pay a 1st rd pick $2,153,704 to sit the bench behind a guy drafted specifically as a backup (7th rd), who performed average last season and is being paid $628,195. This is Lynch's second year...how long does this BS go on? 2 yrs? 3 yrs? Maybe forever? It's not like the gig with Rodgers who sat behind and learned from a legend for three years, and patiently awaited his time. Also, Elway was terrible in his first season but started every game from day 1, and P.Manning didn’t exactly light it up either as a rookie. It was "baptism by fire" for these two.

It's a similar situation with the Mahomes kid. KC gives up the house to move up to the 10th pick where they drafted the Texas gunslinger. They sign him to a contract just a shade under 3 mil to sit the bench for 2 or 3 yrs as a developmental project? And to sit and learn behind an average QB like Smith? (2 - 4 in the postseason and no SB appearances). Hardly a Favre, Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. to learn from. So, why not pay these 1st rd hot shots league minimum until they prove themselves or at least earn the starting job? But I guess in reality the league has a habit these days of giving 1st rd QBs big money up front with an unknown factor if they'll ever perform superbly let alone start. I find it repugnant that while the rest of us have to work for living, 1st rd QBs get paid millions right out of the gate for doing nothing or sitting bench as "development projects." Only in the NFL and not the real world could that happen. Lol.
Nomad
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Re: Re:

13 Aug 2017 14:44

Nomad wrote:
on3m@n@rmy wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:In Denver it looks like again Paxton Lynch is being outplayed by Trevor Simeon, which has to be a bit of a disappointment to Bronco brass. Lynch will start game 2 of the preseason, and more will be known then.

True...but Lynch is going to be given every opportunity to win the starting job. My guess is that he'll have to start on opening day. How can you justify the 26th overall player drafted last year, and 3rd QB selected behind Goff & Wentz, sitting the bench for the second year in row behind a "7th" round pick who, IMO, is average at best? This is Elway's guy and I don't think Siemian can lead them to the promise land anyway. It's probably make or break for Lynch and move on.

Also, Chad Kelly, Jim Kelly's nephew and the last player drafted this year (a la "Mr. Irrelevant"), may be put on IR. The 4th QB on the roster, Kyle Sloter, is a free agent from the little University of Northern Colorado in Greeley, who's looking very good in practice and didn't look to shabby in the 4th Q against Chicago. Word has it he's locked-in a practice squad job and maybe a shot at the back-up depending on what happens with Siemian & Lynch. Of course if things really go south with the QBs, Elway is going to have to sign someone out there (...calling Colin Kaepernick?).

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/8/11/16131216/broncos-paxton-lynch-the-starter

True Lynch will be given every opportunity to compete for the starting job, but he will not be gifted the starting job just because he was a 26th overall draft pick or that he should learn through "baptism by fire" as the article says. No, Denver's choice for the starting QB position will be based on who the better player is, who is playing better, and who gives them the best chance to win. At the moment, Siemian has the edge. Furthermore, there is a reason he was 26th overall in a weak draft for quarterbacks. In other draft years he might have easily been a second-rounder, third-rounder, or lower. Nobody on the team staff should be foolish enough to allow his draft position to be used as a reason to name him the starter. He must earn it. That's how it should work. Gifting just stirs up player discontent for coaching and management decisions. So, I disagree with that article's author.
I disagree with you and agree with the article...that's why I posted it. Was Lynch drafted as a starter or a backup? Elway traded up a few spots to draft him in the 1st rd and not let him go to the 2nd rd (I would imagine Elway knows a little something about QBs). So, if Lynch doesn't start the Broncos are therefore going to pay a 1st rd pick $2,153,704 to sit the bench behind a guy drafted specifically as a backup (7th rd), who performed average last season and is being paid $628,195. This is Lynch's second year...how long does this BS go on? 2 yrs? 3 yrs? Maybe forever? It's not like the gig with Rodgers who sat behind and learned from a legend for three years, and patiently awaited his time. Also, Elway was terrible in his first season but started every game from day 1, and P.Manning didn’t exactly light it up either as a rookie. It was "baptism by fire" for these two.

It's a similar situation with the Mahomes kid. KC gives up the house to move up to the 10th pick where they drafted the Texas gunslinger. They sign him to a contract just a shade under 3 mil to sit the bench for 2 or 3 yrs as a developmental project? And to sit and learn behind an average QB like Smith? (2 - 4 in the postseason and no SB appearances). Hardly a Favre, Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. to learn from. So, why not pay these 1st rd hot shots league minimum until they prove themselves or at least earn the starting job? But I guess in reality the league has a habit these days of giving 1st rd QBs big money up front with an unknown factor if they'll ever perform superbly let alone start. I find it repugnant that while the rest of us have to work for living, 1st rd QBs get paid millions right out of the gate for doing nothing or sitting bench as "development projects." Only in the NFL and not the real world could that happen. Lol.

Smith is the perfect teacher for Mahomes, the hole in his game is just what Smith can help him with.

I'm assuming that your LOL is because you know that nothing in the NFL is real life! :eek: :lol:
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Re: Re:

13 Aug 2017 17:14

jmdirt wrote:
Nomad wrote:
on3m@n@rmy wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:In Denver it looks like again Paxton Lynch is being outplayed by Trevor Simeon, which has to be a bit of a disappointment to Bronco brass. Lynch will start game 2 of the preseason, and more will be known then.

True...but Lynch is going to be given every opportunity to win the starting job. My guess is that he'll have to start on opening day. How can you justify the 26th overall player drafted last year, and 3rd QB selected behind Goff & Wentz, sitting the bench for the second year in row behind a "7th" round pick who, IMO, is average at best? This is Elway's guy and I don't think Siemian can lead them to the promise land anyway. It's probably make or break for Lynch and move on.

Also, Chad Kelly, Jim Kelly's nephew and the last player drafted this year (a la "Mr. Irrelevant"), may be put on IR. The 4th QB on the roster, Kyle Sloter, is a free agent from the little University of Northern Colorado in Greeley, who's looking very good in practice and didn't look to shabby in the 4th Q against Chicago. Word has it he's locked-in a practice squad job and maybe a shot at the back-up depending on what happens with Siemian & Lynch. Of course if things really go south with the QBs, Elway is going to have to sign someone out there (...calling Colin Kaepernick?).

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/8/11/16131216/broncos-paxton-lynch-the-starter

True Lynch will be given every opportunity to compete for the starting job, but he will not be gifted the starting job just because he was a 26th overall draft pick or that he should learn through "baptism by fire" as the article says. No, Denver's choice for the starting QB position will be based on who the better player is, who is playing better, and who gives them the best chance to win. At the moment, Siemian has the edge. Furthermore, there is a reason he was 26th overall in a weak draft for quarterbacks. In other draft years he might have easily been a second-rounder, third-rounder, or lower. Nobody on the team staff should be foolish enough to allow his draft position to be used as a reason to name him the starter. He must earn it. That's how it should work. Gifting just stirs up player discontent for coaching and management decisions. So, I disagree with that article's author.
I disagree with you and agree with the article...that's why I posted it. Was Lynch drafted as a starter or a backup? Elway traded up a few spots to draft him in the 1st rd and not let him go to the 2nd rd (I would imagine Elway knows a little something about QBs). So, if Lynch doesn't start the Broncos are therefore going to pay a 1st rd pick $2,153,704 to sit the bench behind a guy drafted specifically as a backup (7th rd), who performed average last season and is being paid $628,195. This is Lynch's second year...how long does this BS go on? 2 yrs? 3 yrs? Maybe forever? It's not like the gig with Rodgers who sat behind and learned from a legend for three years, and patiently awaited his time. Also, Elway was terrible in his first season but started every game from day 1, and P.Manning didn’t exactly light it up either as a rookie. It was "baptism by fire" for these two.

It's a similar situation with the Mahomes kid. KC gives up the house to move up to the 10th pick where they drafted the Texas gunslinger. They sign him to a contract just a shade under 3 mil to sit the bench for 2 or 3 yrs as a developmental project? And to sit and learn behind an average QB like Smith? (2 - 4 in the postseason and no SB appearances). Hardly a Favre, Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. to learn from. So, why not pay these 1st rd hot shots league minimum until they prove themselves or at least earn the starting job? But I guess in reality the league has a habit these days of giving 1st rd QBs big money up front with an unknown factor if they'll ever perform superbly let alone start. I find it repugnant that while the rest of us have to work for living, 1st rd QBs get paid millions right out of the gate for doing nothing or sitting bench as "development projects." Only in the NFL and not the real world could that happen. Lol.

Smith is the perfect teacher for Mahomes, the hole in his game is just what Smith can help him with.

I'm assuming that your LOL is because you know that nothing in the NFL is real life! :eek: :lol:

Sounds cliche, but don't believe everything you read. To not be cliche, please don't be like Dr Richard Kimble in 'The Fugitive' and do a Peter Pan off the dam spillway.

JMDIRT is right. Smith is the perfect situation for Mahomes to learn. I'll go further, the situation of Mahomes is nothing like the situation of Paxton Lynch, and your argument blows up at suggesting it is similar. Why? Alex Smith is an established QB with some years remaining on the tread. Who does Denver have at QB that is established? Nobody. KC coach Reid brought Mahomes in to learn from Smith before Smith rides off into the sunset or until Mahomes begins to outperform Smith. but that is not likely to happen to start this season. In other words, in drafting Mahomes, coach Reid really wasn't rolling the dice at the draft. Denver did roll the dice with Lynch, hoping he would develop. That has not happened. Don't listen to the sports writer who you are using as your source. Listen to football people who know the game, who played in the NFL. I'll tell you my source. Mark Schlereth, who you prolly know played for Denver, still has connections to Denver, has seen practices, and can give first hand analysis of how Paxton is really doing in camp. You going to listen to the writer, or the football guy?

That said, not that Lynch cannot develop into a starter. Clearly Denver has not given up hope on that. But to throw him into the starting mix when he is not prepared, not able to perform would utterly destroy him. Historically, some draftees have been given the starting role their first season:
- Wilson - but unlike Paxton, he played in a pro style offense at Wisconsin and NC
- Mirer - College standout, and 2nd overall draft pick by Seattle who HOFer Bill Walsh thought would be the next Joe Montana. First season, earns ROY. Next season and every season after that, bust, bust, bust. In Seattle, then Chicago, then I forgot where.
Clearly, Mirer was not really ready. Denver will not want the latter.
User avatar on3m@n@rmy
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Re: Re:

14 Aug 2017 10:54

jmdirt wrote:Smith is the perfect teacher for Mahomes, the hole in his game is just what Smith can help him with.

I'm assuming that your LOL is because you know that nothing in the NFL is real life! :eek: :lol:

Smith the perfect teacher for Mahomes? Yeah...2 -4 in postseason and no SB appearances which means no conference championships. This kinda reminds me of the gig back in 06 when Cutler was taken by the Broncos at the #11 overall pick (close enough to Mahomes to illustrate my point). He was supposed to be tutored for a year or two by the "perfect teacher" in Jake "The Snake" Plummer, who was coming off a 13 - 3 season & AFC Championship lost to Pittsburgh. That educational spectrum lasted all of about a 3/4 of a season as the boobirds came out in full force and Shanny went with a QB change. The Broncos were even 7 - 4 at the time! Lol.
Last edited by Nomad on 14 Aug 2017 12:39, edited 1 time in total.
Nomad
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Re: Re:

14 Aug 2017 12:12

on3m@n@rmy wrote:Sounds cliche, but don't believe everything you read. To not be cliche, please don't be like Dr Richard Kimble in 'The Fugitive' and do a Peter Pan off the dam spillway.

JMDIRT is right. Smith is the perfect situation for Mahomes to learn. I'll go further, the situation of Mahomes is nothing like the situation of Paxton Lynch, and your argument blows up at suggesting it is similar. Why? Alex Smith is an established QB with some years remaining on the tread. Who does Denver have at QB that is established? Nobody. KC coach Reid brought Mahomes in to learn from Smith before Smith rides off into the sunset or until Mahomes begins to outperform Smith. but that is not likely to happen to start this season. In other words, in drafting Mahomes, coach Reid really wasn't rolling the dice at the draft. Denver did roll the dice with Lynch, hoping he would develop. That has not happened. Don't listen to the sports writer who you are using as your source. Listen to football people who know the game, who played in the NFL. I'll tell you my source. Mark Schlereth, who you prolly know played for Denver, still has connections to Denver, has seen practices, and can give first hand analysis of how Paxton is really doing in camp. You going to listen to the writer, or the football guy?

That said, not that Lynch cannot develop into a starter. Clearly Denver has not given up hope on that. But to throw him into the starting mix when he is not prepared, not able to perform would utterly destroy him. Historically, some draftees have been given the starting role their first season:
- Wilson - but unlike Paxton, he played in a pro style offense at Wisconsin and NC
- Mirer - College standout, and 2nd overall draft pick by Seattle who HOFer Bill Walsh thought would be the next Joe Montana. First season, earns ROY. Next season and every season after that, bust, bust, bust. In Seattle, then Chicago, then I forgot where.
Clearly, Mirer was not really ready. Denver will not want the latter.

To use a Usain Bolt cliche: "say what?" "Smith is an established QB with some years remaining on the tread?" An "established QB" that got displaced by Kap in SF and has a dismal 2 - 4 postseason record & nada SB appearances to his name. Not bad for a $16 million dollar QB. Lol. This is all an illusion and defies common sense & logic. Do you really think KC would give up the house to draft a QB at the 10th OA to sit the bench for a few years behind "Alex Smith?" Smith has had some really good defenses and some serious weapons on offense and can't get them past the second round of the playoffs. Logic would suggest someone in upper mgmt "ain't" too happy with Smith and it's time to move on, maybe sooner than later. You won't find any 10th or higher OA picks at QB that didn't start right out of the gate, or start at some point during their rookie season. That being said, I don't anticipate Mahomes starting day 1, unless of course Smith gets hurt or something. But you gotta wonder come mid-season or so if the Chiefs are subpar and the offense isn’t moving the ball very well, and the fans are chanting for the "Texas gunslinger"...what happens then?

And yes, I'm very familiar with Schlereth and hear him all the time on the air waves. But retire NFL players & coaches with "expertise" come a dime a dozen as pundits. And most of these talking heads disagree with each other very often on a wide variety of issues (who could have imagined). And according to other "experts" here neither Siemian nor Lynch are looking that good in camp. In fact, a joke was made that undrafted Kyle Sloter should start because he's been looking the best of the three in camp so far. :)
Last edited by Nomad on 14 Aug 2017 12:38, edited 1 time in total.
Nomad
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14 Aug 2017 12:21

I don't see KC making that mistake though, and I don't see them falling that far. The consensus seems to be they are probably a 10-6 team this year, and should make a wildcard run, or challenge the Raiders again for the division. But they are also better coaches and organized. Even if the Chiefs drop to 6-6 by late season, I don't see Reid panicking, listening to fans, and tossing Mahomes in there, hoping he can save the season.

Here's a Bleacher Report article on rookie QB's who have started playoff games, and how well they did:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2686382-a-history-of-rookie-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl-playoffs

Russell Wilson again leads that pack, but look how well Mark Sanchez did. And how average Dan Marino, Ben Roethlesberger and Andrew Luck were. Ben did have a fantastic rookie season though, as did Marino.

https://www.si.com/nfl/photo/2016/10/11/best-rookie-quarterback-seasons-nfl-history

As to Mirer, it was said more than once his success as a rookie hurt him. He had flaws, I believe mostly throwing to the left, or left out, that was exposed. After that season, Tom Flores resigned as coach and was replaced by Dennis Erickson, who was expected to help develop Mirer, but it didn't happen. Mirer was mostly thrown to the wolves, and his confidence really got shattered. I too thought Mirer won ROY, but he didn't. Jermone Bettis did that season. I think what we may be remembering is the perceived rookie QB competition between Rick and Drew Bledsoe, where many pundits thought Drew would outperform Mirer, regardless of what Bill Walsh said. But Mirer did have a better season. Though Bledsoe would ultimately have a better career, and walk away with a ring (thanks Tom Brady!), he never quite became the QB many thought he would. Upon retiring Bledsoe said nagging injuries, and too many teams playing under iffy offensive lines with too little time to throw and let plays develop took it's toll on his career. Drew owns a mansion near Bend, Oregon. People who run into him say he's bland, though not a jerk. Dan Fouts also owns a home near there, but it's much smaller. Locals say he's super personable.

That's all for today's history lesson. :)
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2017 05:42

Nomad wrote:
on3m@n@rmy wrote:Sounds cliche, but don't believe everything you read. To not be cliche, please don't be like Dr Richard Kimble in 'The Fugitive' and do a Peter Pan off the dam spillway.

JMDIRT is right. Smith is the perfect situation for Mahomes to learn. I'll go further, the situation of Mahomes is nothing like the situation of Paxton Lynch, and your argument blows up at suggesting it is similar. Why? Alex Smith is an established QB with some years remaining on the tread. Who does Denver have at QB that is established? Nobody. KC coach Reid brought Mahomes in to learn from Smith before Smith rides off into the sunset or until Mahomes begins to outperform Smith. but that is not likely to happen to start this season. In other words, in drafting Mahomes, coach Reid really wasn't rolling the dice at the draft. Denver did roll the dice with Lynch, hoping he would develop. That has not happened. Don't listen to the sports writer who you are using as your source. Listen to football people who know the game, who played in the NFL. I'll tell you my source. Mark Schlereth, who you prolly know played for Denver, still has connections to Denver, has seen practices, and can give first hand analysis of how Paxton is really doing in camp. You going to listen to the writer, or the football guy?

That said, not that Lynch cannot develop into a starter. Clearly Denver has not given up hope on that. But to throw him into the starting mix when he is not prepared, not able to perform would utterly destroy him. Historically, some draftees have been given the starting role their first season:
- Wilson - but unlike Paxton, he played in a pro style offense at Wisconsin and NC
- Mirer - College standout, and 2nd overall draft pick by Seattle who HOFer Bill Walsh thought would be the next Joe Montana. First season, earns ROY. Next season and every season after that, bust, bust, bust. In Seattle, then Chicago, then I forgot where.
Clearly, Mirer was not really ready. Denver will not want the latter.

To use a Usain Bolt cliche: "say what?" "Smith is an established QB with some years remaining on the tread?" An "established QB" that got displaced by Kap in SF and has a dismal 2 - 4 postseason record & nada SB appearances to his name. Not bad for a $16 million dollar QB. Lol. This is all an illusion and defies common sense & logic. Do you really think KC would give up the house to draft a QB at the 10th OA to sit the bench for a few years behind "Alex Smith?" Smith has had some really good defenses and some serious weapons on offense and can't get them past the second round of the playoffs. Logic would suggest someone in upper mgmt "ain't" too happy with Smith and it's time to move on, maybe sooner than later. You won't find any 10th or higher OA picks at QB that didn't start right out of the gate, or start at some point during their rookie season. That being said, I don't anticipate Mahomes starting day 1, unless of course Smith gets hurt or something. But you gotta wonder come mid-season or so if the Chiefs are subpar and the offense isn’t moving the ball very well, and the fans are chanting for the "Texas gunslinger"...what happens then?

And yes, I'm very familiar with Schlereth and hear him all the time on the air waves. But retire NFL players & coaches with "expertise" come a dime a dozen as pundits. And most of these talking heads disagree with each other very often on a wide variety of issues (who could have imagined). And according to other "experts" here neither Siemian nor Lynch are looking that good in camp. In fact, a joke was made that undrafted Kyle Sloter should start because he's been looking the best of the three in camp so far. :)

Touche on the Bolt quote. :) Really though, I think we are both on the same page regarding Alex Smith, based on your statement "I don't anticipate Mahomes starting day 1, unless...". All I was saying is Smith is a much more established QB than Mahomes and therefore should be the starter on day-1. I did not mean Smith is at Brady or Rogers level. He!! Mahomes has not established anything yet. Haha. So, my saying Smith is an established QB is not saying much. But Smith knows a lot more about the pro game than Mahomes does, knows more about how to study film, how to break down film. and how to recognize and attack a defense than Mahomes does. I am a firm believer the best QB, the QB who gives them the best chance to win should start. Right now, and on day-1, this is, and should be, Smith.

Jumping back to Paxton Lynch vs Trevor Siemian. Lynch at least has one year under his belt, which is a big advantage over Mahomes when it comes down to who should start. Still, the best player should start. And presently, based on sound football analysis, Paxton is lagging behind Siemian. Although the Siemian/Lynch competition might be a lot closer than the Smith/Mahomes competition. Now when I see a writer say "Paxton should start", I understand why the writer says that (he thinks Paxton will develop quicker by getting more reps in practice and games). That might work IF Paxton has the mental part down at game speed. But according to reports from people who played/know the game better than the author of the article, Paxton is not at that point just yet. And stats bear that out, though not by leaps and bounds in favor of Siemian. Not that he or Mahomes cannot get to that level in the future.
User avatar on3m@n@rmy
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Re:

15 Aug 2017 10:36

Alpe d'Huez wrote:I don't see KC making that mistake though, and I don't see them falling that far. The consensus seems to be they are probably a 10-6 team this year, and should make a wildcard run, or challenge the Raiders again for the division. But they are also better coaches and organized. Even if the Chiefs drop to 6-6 by late season, I don't see Reid panicking, listening to fans, and tossing Mahomes in there, hoping he can save the season.

Interesting info on Mirer, btw.

In reference to your scenario: If the Chiefs were to find themselves at 6-6 and the offense was struggling, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a QB change with Mahomes. Do you recall Philly's 2012 season with Reid at the helm? They were struggling at mid-season (3 - 4) with Vick and there was speculation of starting Nick Foles for an upcoming Monday night game. It didn't happen as anticipated. However, the following week Vick went down with a concusion and Foles step in. A few weeks later when Vick was cleared to play, Reid stayed with Foles announcing him as the starter for the remainder of the season until he got hurt in the final week. Foles, taken that year in the 3rd round, was primarily drafted for a backup role. But things can quickly change when a team is losing and the offense is struggling, even with an established veteran #1 OA pick running the offense.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Foles
Nomad
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Re: Re:

15 Aug 2017 12:26

Nomad wrote:Do you recall Philly's 2012 season with Reid at the helm?

Good detective work.

What exactly are we basing Mahomes ability on? Right now? Being drafted high? Practice? Scrimmage? A passer rating of 126.4 against the 49ers in a preseason game? That number is such an absurdly small sample size, and absurd way to gauge his future ability. He was 7/9 for 49 yards.

There have been two knocks on Smith his entire career. The first that he doesn't win games for you. Well, he doesn't lose them either. And he has won plenty of games actually. He's also put up some excellent numbers as one of the most accurate arms in the last decade, plus he's mobile, and more physical than given credit for. The other knock has been, for whatever the reason, while his arm strength is okay, for being such an extremely accurate passer short, he isn't that accurate long, or won't pull the trigger sometimes on long passes. Last year Andy Reid started calling for more long throws, and in the 49er game we saw Smith (also Brey and Mahomes) attempt to throw long. Will that continue? How will Smith respond? Unknown right now.

I think to call for the end of Smith's career, and push to get Mahomes in there to lead the Chiefs to the promised land based on this is crazy.

Having said that, teams, GM's, even solid coaches have done far crazier things.

But let's say Smith does get hurt. Let's say he has an injury he can't quite get 100%, but can get on the field, and during that time he is struggling. But when Mahomes gets in there when Alex is hurt, he is throwing very well, deep, (he appears to have a very strong arm, stronger than Smith), and comfortable in there. Then what? I agree Reid could decide to keep Mahomes playing, if on a short leash. I view Reid as an intellectual coach, a practical coach. So anything is possible. I just don't see him thinking because Alex hasn't won enough big games, and Mahomes was drafted high, naming Mahomes the starter this year, unless Smith gets hurt, or really falters.

Maybe the best news for KC and everyone involved is that they seem pretty supportive of each other. Smith may see the long term writing on the wall, but seemed to really encourage Mahomes, and Mahomes seemed to appreciate his opportunity, and to learn as much as anything...for now.
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